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Jingle Mail!!! Going bust

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    #32
    Fatloss08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Fatloss08


    if your minds made up then best of luck


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    #33
    ZYX
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    blue1980 wrote: »

    They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).

    …
    However the bank does not "take the hit". They pass it on to their customers. ie the rest of us. You bought after property prices started falling. Even the dogs on the street were saying prices would fall further. You took a very foolish risk and lost. That is your fault not the banks.


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    #34
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    blue1980 wrote: »
    Most of the initial responses were childish scare mongering. If you think for one minute that I should feel some sort of moral obligation not to leave the bank in the **** then you must be joking.

    Actually, I disagree with this. It is not childish to suggest that people who borrow money should repay the sums they borrowed. It is childish to assume that you have the right to walk away from your obligations because they didn't turn out right for you. You should feel a moral obligation to repay your debts; your obligations.

    Otherwise, why should anyone ever repay you monies or sums that are owed to you?


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    #35
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    After we sell the house, and money is still owed, there's a contract debt outstanding which we can sue the owner for.

    Sorry maybe I got that wrong. From what I read it meant AFTER the house is sold by the banks, there's a contract debt outstanding which we can sue the OWNER for. The person who owns the house after the sale will not be the original buyer but I see the point regarding the contract debt.


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    #36
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    blue1980 wrote: »
    The idea that the bank will follow me across Irish boarders to claw back the shortfall is laughable considering that we are on the verge of an avalanche of repossessions.
    With the effect that international terrorism has had on the psyche of the US in particular, it has become increasingly difficult to simply vanish away across the borders. In the case of fraud for example, I have seen banks pursue people from one end of the world to the other. Then again, maybe you will get lucky and vanish in the mob of defaulters you hope are descending upon us.

    Then again, you might not.
    blue1980 wrote: »
    Besides I have no assets abroad
    Your current and future earnings qualify as assets to the banks.


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    #37
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    SimpleSam06 wrote: »
    Your current and future earnings qualify as assets to the banks.

    As does any pension contributions you or your employer may have made, or may make in the future. Normally its simply a garnishing of salary/wages though.


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    #38
    bangersandmash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭bangersandmash


    blue1980 wrote: »
    They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).
    Your analogy looks flawed. As ZYX points out, in both cases the Irish taxpayers you leave behind will take the hit. Either through increased banking charges, increased mortgage rates for new buyers, or quite possibly as a result of a bailout of a government guaranteed bank that gets into difficulty after giving loans to those who cannot or will not repay what they owe.

    You say you don't care that you have upset or incensed people, and then complain that you're not receiving valuable advice from the same people? :confused:


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    #39
    blue1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭blue1980


    SimpleSam06 wrote: »
    With the effect that international terrorism has had on the psyche of the US in particular, it has become increasingly difficult to simply vanish away across the borders. In the case of fraud for example, I have seen banks pursue people from one end of the world to the other. Then again, maybe you will get lucky and vanish in the mob of defaulters you hope are descending upon us..


    International terrorism.... This is what I meant by childish replies. Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k. I'm not committing fraud, I'm failing to repay a debt. They are not going to throw good money after bad. You are living in a fantasy land.
    Calina wrote: »
    Actually, I disagree with this. It is not childish to suggest that people who borrow money should repay the sums they borrowed. It is childish to assume that you have the right to walk away from your obligations because they didn't turn out right for you. You should feel a moral obligation to repay your debts; your obligations.

    Otherwise, why should anyone ever repay you monies or sums that are owed to you?

    I do not think it is childish to repay debts at all. I have always repaid my debts prior to my current situation. I felt the replies which said i could go to prison were childish.


    If I had come on here and said I had lost my job and was about to lose my house and was wondering what the long term implications would be, I bet you all would have been oozing with sympathy and giving me the number to the citizens fu8king advice bureau. The bottom line is the repercussions for all those poor families will be the same as the repercussions for me. The banks will have no idea of my real financial situation. With the thousands of repossessions that are on the way and that have already started the banks will, at some stage, have to draw a line in the sand and write these debts off. Or do you think all those poor families will never be allowed to get back on their feet again???

    It may not be the most socially responsible thing I have ever done , but does make allot of sense to my personal finances and financial future.


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    #40
    caff
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    blue1980 wrote: »
    International terrorism.... This is what I meant by childish replies. Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k. I'm not committing fraud, I'm failing to repay a debt. They are not going to throw good money after bad. You are living in a fantasy land.

    Eh its those same terrorist laws they are using in the uk already to grab money off the icelandic banks.. its really not too far fetched


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    #41
    blue1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭blue1980


    caff wrote: »
    Eh its those same terrorist laws they are using in the uk already to grab money off the icelandic banks.. its really not too far fetched

    For Fu8ksakes.


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    #42
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    blue1980 wrote: »
    International terrorism.... This is what I meant by childish replies. Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k. I'm not committing fraud, I'm failing to repay a debt. They are not going to throw good money after bad. You are living in a fantasy land.
    Sorry now, to clarify my comment, far reaching and powerful agreements have been put in place to track terrorists since the attack on the twin towers and the transfer of funds of one sort or another, and the banks are quite capable of taking advantage of these to track defaulters.

    We're living in a smaller world than we used to.

    If you want to take your chances I sincerely sympathise with your situation, and you might even get away with it if you don't plan on coming back for some years, but consider long and hard the possiblities of toughing it out here, selling at a loss, and swallowing the difference. It might be the best move, and you'll probably be able to work something out with the banks. It needn't ruin your life.


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    #43
    blah
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭blah


    Sure give it a shot, I'd be interested to see who's right or who's wrong.


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    #44
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,078 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    blue1980 wrote: »
    Hello again, firstly I’d like to apologise for my previous outburst. I had received so many negative, childish and unhelpful responses that I was a little distressed. Anyway just to clear up a few things. I am not trolling. I bought the property in late 2006. My tenants are my friends and they will not be going to the revenue for their tax back. I am not a wealthy landlord. It was my intention to live in the property but my work has taken me abroad and will be remaining abroad for the foreseeable future.

    Most of the initial responses were childish scare mongering. If you think for one minute that I should feel some sort of moral obligation not to leave the bank in the **** then you must be joking. They have done exactly what I intend to do, except of course on a massive scale. I (foolishly) leveraged too much as did they. Now they are screwed and are letting someone else take the hit (Irish Taxpayer) as will I (the bank).

    ... My initial post was aimed at getting info on the viability of such an option and not to receive a lesson on my moral obligations to society…………

    So if you normally don't get a positive response to your questions do you tell people to f*** off ?
    What helpful response were you hoping for?
    Perhaps somebody should have given you the address of the bank PO box to mail the keys to ?
    You wanted info on the viability of running away and leaving someone else holding the can. That's sweet :rolleyes:
    You expect people to tell you fair enough off you go, we (the rest of us bank customers) will cover your debts, sure you made a mistake and we all make those.
    We can all make bad judgements that cost us money, but should we expect others to pay for them :mad:
    You do.
    Did anybody force you to buy, did the bank force you to buy ?
    You have some idea that the bank is them, some entity that exists but doesn't affect other people like for example it's customers.

    This reminds me of the time that Eircom shares dropped in value, you had people asking for the money they lost to be refunded.
    Would you have been prepared to pay more tax so that those people could get their losses back ?
    I bet the answer is NO.

    There is a thing called responsibility, although it seems you are probably of a generation that believe responsibility is nothing to do with you.
    Sure we have learnt that from our political and economic leaders, nobody is responsible for anything anymore.

    President Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that said "the buck stops here" and it's about time that motto was tattooed on a few foreheads around in this country.

    Of course you can tell me f off and you don't care what anyone thinks.


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    #45
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    blue1980 wrote: »
    I am not a wealthy landlord.

    You are.

    You earn 70k net which works out at over 2k a week gross. That is wealthy in anyone's book.


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    #46
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    blue1980 wrote: »
    Do you really believe banks will go to all that trouble to get back 80k - 100k.

    I have always repaid my debts prior to my current situation. I felt the replies which said i could go to prison were childish.

    It may not be the most socially responsible thing I have ever done , but does make allot of sense to my personal finances and financial future.

    Yes, currently the banks (worldwide) will make every possible effort to recover a loss like this. They will take legal action, to the fullest extent, and that may include prison time, if you fail to abide by the court's decision.

    Of course, your sending back the keys, etc, may seem to free you up from your debt now, but banks these days have far and international reaching ways to recover debt. You will be taking a very big risk, which may cause you more harm than good.

    Have you actually contacted the bank, and discussed your mortgage and financial situation?? It might be a good step.


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    #47
    gemmaod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭gemmaod


    I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?


    blue1980 wrote: »
    I bought a property in Dublin in 2006/2007 for 326k. The value of that property has now plummeted in value. Similar properties in the most recent phase of the same development have being selling for about 100k less. I have finished pulling out my hair and am now considering a few options.

    Firstly, I’m single and don’t live in Ireland so don’t actually need a place here. I get paid well, about 70k (net) a year, so I can afford to keep it but what is the point?? I’m renting it out at the moment (illegally) and the rent is covering my mortgage repayments of 1200euro. However this is interest only and will increase to 1700euro in a year’s time so I will have to make up the shortfall of 500euro a month.

    I borrowed 280k and reckon when the dust settles I will be about 50-100k in negative equity not to mention the loss of the 45k in saving I put into it. I would have to make up the shortfall in the repayment every month for an asset that is worth allot less than what I paid for it, for probably the next 10 years. I want to cut my losses and let the bank take the hit. To give the bank the keys and tell them I can no longer meet the repayments, say goodbye and leave the country.

    In the US they call it jingle mail. Where a person posts the keys of their property back to the bank and they say they have gone bust. I bank with an offshore bank that has nothing to do with my Irish lender.

    How do I do this here in Ireland?
    How will this affect me in the future?
    Will they write it off as a bad debt and leave it at that or will they chase me for the rest of my days?
    Will they try to access my money in foreign banks?
    How long will I be blacklisted for and will that only be in Ireland??

    Please advise.


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    #48
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    gemmaod wrote: »
    I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

    Since the original post is over a year old, they may have already left. :D


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    #49
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    gemmaod wrote: »
    I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

    Are you stuck for news Gemma?


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    #50
    Senna
    Registered Users Posts: 8,800 ✭✭✭Senna


    gemmaod wrote: »
    I am a journalist with a national newspaper interviewing people who are abandoning their homes and leaving the country. Would you be willing to tell me your story?

    Hard days work for you today, go to boards, click search, type in whatever random topic your working on, drag up thread from a year ago, job done. Let me guess....Indo?


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    #51
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Senna wrote: »
    Hard days work for you today, go to boards, click search, type in whatever random topic your working on, drag up thread from a year ago, job done. Let me guess....Indo?

    Hole in one.


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    #52
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Yes- its Gemma O'Doherty from the Indo (according to her IP address).

    Gemma- we have a media interaction forum here that may be of interest to you.
    Please do not randomly post in fora without requesting a moderator introduction from the media interaction forum- or your threads will be deleted. Also- each forum has a housekeeping charter- they differ from forum to forum- please familiarise yourself with the charter of that forum you propose to post in.

    Regards,

    Shane McCarrick


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    #53
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    they must have been pulling their hair out at the Indo and the Herald while the search function was down...


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    #54
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Paulw wrote: »
    Since the original post is over a year old, they may have already left. :D

    Don't held much hope for her if this is the best research she can do!'


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