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The Kimi debate - continued!

  • 24-09-2014 11:40am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭


    What folk in the last thread are missing in all of this I think regarding Ferrari is the obvious missing person since their winning ways. And it isn't Schumacher or Kimi... it's Brawn!
    I'm not saying anything against Kimi, Fernando or Michael, I'm saying that none of them can win without a car that's somewhat capable of doing so. All 3 have shown they can bring a car that isn't the best to the front, but at the end of the day over a season you need a car capable of beating the competition at least 50% of the time.
    Brawn's history shows that he never missed more than 3 years in a row without producing a winning car, and that still rings true with this years Mercedes. He only left after the car was developed and it's beating everyone.
    Ferrari's demise isn't Alonso's fault.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭greedygoblin


    Oh no. You've really gone and done it now! :pac:


    I agree on the Brawn point though. Ferrari could do with him around the place again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,095 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    When you look at what Ferrari had during that time it's insane.

    Brawn Todt, Byrne and then of course the unlimited testing at Fiorano. Plenty of talk and rumour of Brawn returning but under an advisory role, he pushed very hard at Honda, as well as Honda themselves, to get Alonso in their car back then. Maybe the partnership can fully fledge.

    P.S I think the name of this thread could do with a changing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I don't think you can put Ferraris issues down to any particular person because all the drivers have had to deal with different cars, different rules, different tyre compounds. Nothing is comparable, Michaels days in Ferrari have little to do with Alonso's days in Ferrari, what Kimi achieved in the past has little bearing on what he's doing now because it's almost like a different race series at this point. Even if brawn came back there's no guarantee he'll be as good at managing the current cars and rules as he was with the old rules and cars.

    Teams really need to be adaptable in F1, they need to be able to quickly take on any challenge regardless of fairness and make a car work within those rules and restrictions. That's not to say Ferrari are definitely doing everything wrong, because they're preforming as well as or better than most teams out there. They're just not winning everything like they did in the past, they carry a lot of expectations on their shoulders that isn't really fair on the team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭greedygoblin


    Was Mattiacci a Luca di Montezemola appointment or was he hired by the Fiat boss to take over the team? Cos if it's the former, surely his place is in doubt now that Luca is gone. Also, it's not like there has been a huge upturn in Ferrari's fortunes since Domenicali was fired/resigned (ok Mattiacci has only been there a short while but there's little room for complacancy in F1).

    I think it just begs the question of where Brawn would fit into the team if he was hired again. Would he be content with a role where he is not calling the shots, where he is not the one responsible for making the final call?

    This is all conjecture of course. Brawn may have no interest in returning to the sport. And even if he does, maybe he wouldn't want to return to Ferrari.

    Short term (next season at least) I don't think I see Ferrari returning to the top step of the podium. I think there is just too much upheaval in the team at the moment. Maybe, Alonso will be tempted by the project unfolding between McLaren and Honda (though I think he might want to leave it for a year to see how it goes; all the other engine manufacturers essentially have a year head start on Honda).

    Which all goes back to the start and Kimi's performance at Ferrari. He is currently contracted to Ferrari until the end of next season. If there isn't an upturn in the fortunes of the Ferrari cars, regardless of whether Alonso stays or goes, I think Kimi might call it quits next year. So far the characteristics of the car don't seem to be to his liking, and if he has to endure another season like this of below par performances, he may be off.

    Just my €0.02.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I don't think you can put Ferraris issues down to any particular person because all the drivers have had to deal with different cars, different rules, different tyre compounds. Nothing is comparable, Michaels days in Ferrari have little to do with Alonso's days in Ferrari, what Kimi achieved in the past has little bearing on what he's doing now because it's almost like a different race series at this point. Even if brawn came back there's no guarantee he'll be as good at managing the current cars and rules as he was with the old rules and cars.

    Teams really need to be adaptable in F1, they need to be able to quickly take on any challenge regardless of fairness and make a car work within those rules and restrictions. That's not to say Ferrari are definitely doing everything wrong, because they're preforming as well as or better than most teams out there. They're just not winning everything like they did in the past, they carry a lot of expectations on their shoulders that isn't really fair on the team.

    I think Brawn's real talent lies in putting together a combination of talented people to form a winning team. I don't think he really needs to understand the inner workings of ERS or the funky noses (though I'm sure he understands them much better than I do), the reason he wins is because he can pull together the best designers, engineers, strategists and drivers and get them all to work together. He also seems to excel in thinking outside the box, and finding ways to do things that no one else is doing, while staying (more or less) inside the rules.

    With that said, the current rules around homologation would make things very tough for him to make a successful comeback. The Merc engine is so far ahead of everyone else, and no one being allowed to make major changes for the next few years is going to make it extremely hard for anyone else to beat them, no matter how talented they are.


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