Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dvpower · 17-03-2012 5:03pm

Ghandee wrote: »

Who do you think they'll be sharing power with?
.

I don't think SF will be in power after the next election - I just can't see a partner for them.

Again, who do you think/

Ghandee · 17-03-2012 5:13pm

dvpower wrote: »

I don't think SF will be in power after the next election - I just can't see a partner for them.

Again, who do you think/

Lol, no matter whose in power next time round, I know who it won't be.

The blue shirts have made a right dogs dinner at this attempt, Edna will be forever remembered as a turn coat, liar, and a coward.

Why do you feel that SF would need a partner to govern? Is this based upon your own parties failure to secure an over all majority?

jonnygee · 17-03-2012 5:28pm

So lets say a million households pay and 600,000 dont. How many voters would those 600,000 contain and would the goverment be inclined to introduce some sort of amnesty to remove the charges applied against those households before they go knocking on those doors loooking for votes before the next election.

dxhound2005 · 17-03-2012 5:37pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Will you look at the way they are spending the existing money. Just look at your own town. Ploughing money into useless projects like narrowing the streets and making the footpaths bigger like heli pads. Just look at Stapleton Place and Chapel Street and see the waste of money while at the same time slowing up the flow of traffic and congesting the town.
Do you think your 100e will be spent wisely ?

I give the local authorities great credit for the water infrastructure in Dundalk. From a situation where 100 year old installations meant water rationing every summer in the 1970's to what we have now. People turn on their taps and get unlimited free water without even thinking about it. And the waste water treatment facilities were upgraded also as you know.

A fair bit of money is being spent in our area cleaning up the toxic waste from people who have the same attitude to the law as you have when they do their diesel laundering.

tayto lover · 17-03-2012 5:48pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I give the local authorities great credit for the water infrastructure in Dundalk. From a situation where 100 year old installations meant water rationing every summer in the 1970's to what we have now. People turn on their taps and get unlimited free water without even thinking about it. And the waste water treatment facilities were upgraded also as you know.

A fair bit of money is being spent in our area cleaning up the toxic waste from people who have the same attitude to the law as you have when they do their diesel laundering.

How dare you associate me with people who do diesel laundering. I abhor that kind of thing. This is typical of people who do not like the fact that others see this Household Tax as unjust and an attack on home owners.
Shame on you for stooping that low.

mikom · 17-03-2012 5:56pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A fair bit of money is being spent in our area cleaning up the toxic waste from people who have the same attitude to the law as you have when they do their diesel laundering.

Rattlesnakes belly.......... but not surprising.

Ghandee · 17-03-2012 6:10pm

Dxhound had the uncanny ability to shoot his mouth off, and produce links to pdf documents with all kinds of facts, figures and statistics to back up some of his claims.

However, when proven wrong/caught out telling downright lies, he saunters off without acknowledging the fact.

Complete coward imo.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 6:20pm

jonnygee wrote: »

So lets say a million households pay and 600,000 dont. How many voters would those 600,000 contain and would the goverment be inclined to introduce some sort of amnesty to remove the charges applied against those households before they go knocking on those doors loooking for votes before the next election.

Given our history with tax amnestys in this country, I'd say this is highly unlikely.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 6:25pm

Ghandee wrote: »

Why do you feel that SF would need a partner to govern?

SF in power on their own after the next election. I've heard it all now.

Ghandee · 17-03-2012 6:37pm

dvpower wrote: »

SF in power on their own after the next election. I've heard it all now.

Again, your twisting my words.

If your going to quote me, don't edit the post to suit yourself.

I never said Sinn Fein would be in power by themselves.

I asked you why you felt they would need a partner to govern,?

If you can't answer, say so.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 6:48pm

Ghandee wrote: »

If your going to quote me, don't edit the post to suit yourself.

How exactly did I edit your post to suit myself?

I've been trying to ask a simple question about how you see the make up of the next government, which you seem unwilling to give a straight answer to.

If you don't want to answer, say so.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 6:52pm

Ghandee wrote: »

I asked you why you felt they would need a partner to govern,?

Its pretty clear that for SF to be in government without a partner would require the biggest swing in modern Irish history or some bizarre situation where others would prop up a SF minority government without seeking cabinet positions.

Not a chance of it.

Freddie59 · 17-03-2012 7:49pm

dvpower wrote: »

That makes no sense at all. Is your objection to property taxes in general or specifically this property tax.

Would you accept a property tax if the funds were ringfenced for local authority services and there was a corresponding reduction in other taxes?

Sure why would anyone have a problem with that? Road tax going to - shock - roads, etc? But I'm sure even YOU will agree that this is not the case - no matter how you dress it up.

Ghandee · 17-03-2012 7:51pm

dvpower wrote: »

Its pretty clear that for SF to be in government without a partner would require the biggest swing in modern Irish history or some bizarre situation where others would prop up a SF minority government without seeking cabinet positions.

Not a chance of it.

I can't say who, if any they would partner.

I do believe that Sinn Fein will be in Government though come next election.

Lord TSC · 17-03-2012 7:52pm

I'm not going to pay. Not because I disagree with it, but since I reckon there's no way they'll convict everyone who doesn't pay, and I can't afford to "do the right thing" in this day and age when no one else is...

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:01pm

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm not going to pay. Not because I disagree with it, but since I reckon there's no way they'll convict everyone who doesn't pay, and I can't afford to "do the right thing" in this day and age when no one else is...

But they don't need to convict everyone. They may bring a few cases to make examples, and when these people get large fines (I think the legislation allows for a €2500 fine), others will fall into line.

Hoping for safety in numbers is a risky strategy. You really need the charge to fail at the outset, otherwise I can see no reasonable way of avoiding it.

Ghandee · 17-03-2012 8:06pm

dvpower wrote: »

But they don't need to convict everyone. They may bring a few cases to make examples, and when these people get large fines (I think the legislation allows for a €2500 fine), others will fall into line.

Hoping for safety in numbers is a risky strategy. You really need the charge to fail at the outset, otherwise I can see no reasonable way of avoiding it.

They can't fine everyone.

Even if they do, they can't force you to pay the fine.

Then what?

Jail everyone on the island?

Stop kidding yourself DV, this tax is a non runner. It won't see the light of day.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:06pm

Ghandee wrote: »

I can't say who, if any they would partner.

I do believe that Sinn Fein will be in Government though come next election.

If you believe the SF will be in government after the next election, you must have some idea about the makeup of the government, otherwise isn't it just a baseless hope?

Anyway, this is going a bit off topic.

I wonder if it'll be in their next manifesto to repeal the property tax.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:11pm

Ghandee wrote: »

They can't fine everyone.

Even if they do, they can't force you to pay the fine.

Then what?

Jail everyone on the island?

None of this is required. They fine a selection of people - €2500 plus outstanding tax, plus interest, plus late payment fees, plus costs.
Others fall into line. Simples.

Ghandee wrote: »

Stop kidding yourself DV, this tax is a non runner. It won't see the light of day.

I don't know if you've noticed, but it already has.

paddy147 · 17-03-2012 8:17pm

dvpower wrote: »

But they don't need to convict everyone. They may bring a few cases to make examples, and when these people get large fines (I think the legislation allows for a €2500 fine), others will fall into line.

Hoping for safety in numbers is a risky strategy. You really need the charge to fail at the outset, otherwise I can see no reasonable way of avoiding it.

I love how all your posts on this matter are "do gooder" posts and you seem to be a FG Follower and defender,with the type of posting you do.

That "Saint Enda " is right and can do no wrong.

So what are you saying then??

We all sit back and let "Saint Enda" preech to us on doing the right thing??

Go and ask me hole.

People in numbers can take down goverments and make goverments do serious U-Turns very easily (as has allready happened with this one).

And thats whats going to happen again,and very soon too.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:19pm

paddy147 wrote: »

So what are you saying then??

We all sit back and let "Saint Enda" preech to us on doing the right thing??

Go and ask me hole.

People in numbers can take down goverments and make goverments do serious U-Turns very easily (as has allready happened with this one).

And thats whats going to happen again,and very soon too.

What u-turn has there been on this issue already? When do you think the government will formally abandon the household charge?

paddy147 · 17-03-2012 8:25pm

dvpower wrote: »

What u-turn has there been on this issue already? When do you think the government will formally abandon the household charge?

Oh sweet lord jesus....where do we get these people from????:rolleyes:

I said that people power can force goverments do do u-turns.

"with this one" means with this goverment,or dont you get that part???

Do you read what people actually post????Do you????

Do you read newspapers,watch TV News or do you actually know what is going on in the world???

Or you that blatantly ill informed or ignorant on the various situations thay FG have been caught out on???

2 big names spring to mind here with regards U-Turns and being backed into a corner and backing down and admitting they got it wrong......Ruari Quinn,and a certain Mr Hogan

Now if you need to ask anymore questions then go pick up a newspaper or go have a google.

Have a good evening.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:27pm

paddy147 wrote: »

Oh sweet lord jesus....where do we get these people from????:rolleyes:

Do you read newspapers,watch TV News or do you actually know what is going on in the world???

Or you that blatantly ill informed or ignorant on the various situations thay FG have been caught out on???

2 big names spring straing to mind here with regards U-Turns and backed into a corner and backing down......Ruari Quinn,and a certain Mr Hogan

Now if you need to ask anymore questions then go pick up a newspaper or go have a google.

Have a good evening.

I've had a look online and I don't know what u-turn on the household charge issue you're referring to.
Can you share please?

When can I expect the household charge to be formally abandoned?

Am Chile · 17-03-2012 8:28pm

dvpower wrote: »

But they don't need to convict everyone. They may bring a few cases to make examples, and when these people get large fines (I think the legislation allows for a €2500 fine), others will fall into line.

Hoping for safety in numbers is a risky strategy. You really need the charge to fail at the outset, otherwise I can see no reasonable way of avoiding it.

Out of Interest and being curious if say up to million don,t register for the household tax, do you beleive the money and resources are there to pinpoint the Identities of up to a million people not registering?

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:33pm

Am Chile wrote: »

Out of Interest and being curious if say up to million don,t register for the household tax, do you beleive the money and resources are there to pinpoint the Identities of up to a million people not registering?

I think that once they have the databases in place, identifying 1000 and identifying a million is much of a muchness.
Obviously direct enforcement against a million people wouldn't be practical; that's why I think there would be targetted enforcement.

demanufactured · 17-03-2012 8:33pm

What you need to realise DV is that enda and his cronies work for us, not the other way round.
If enough of the people go against this tax, and its looking like they will, then it will be un-collectable.

paddy147 · 17-03-2012 8:34pm

dvpower wrote: »

I've had a look online and I don't know what u-turn on the household charge issue you're referring to.
Can you share please?

When can I expect the household charge to be formally abandoned?

Do me a favour.....go and read what was posted in the last 2 posts by me.

Let that sink into your head 1st before you post anymore.

For the 3rd time.....I said that people power can force goverments into u-turns,as is this case with this one.

"This One" refering to this goverment.... and with Ruari Quinn and Mr Hogan.

Now why dont you go off and google those 2 names and read up on what they did u-turns on,backed down on with their original threats and plans.

Now either you are very ill infornmed on FG/Labour and its u-turns so far,or you are just blatantly ignorant and a fan of Endas,and a FG/labour supporter and defender.

Im off to enjoy the rest of my evening now.

Happy googling.

Am Chile · 17-03-2012 8:40pm

dvpower wrote: »

I think that once they have the databases in place, identifying 1000 and identifying a million is much of a muchness.
Obviously direct enforcement against a million people wouldn't be practical; that's why I think there would be targetted enforcement.

Observation there was an Interesting report about the second home tax a few months ago

HUNDREDS of people are likely to escape the tax on second homes after the authorities admitted it is too expensive and time consuming to pursue those who have refused to pay it.
The Department of the Environment admitted resources were not available to pinpoint the identities of those dodging the €200-a-year non-principal private residence (NPPR) charge.
A spokesman said it would be a costly and time-consuming task to correlate information from land registry records -- a task beyond the capabilities of most cash-strapped county councils

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

Apply Logic to what the LGMA ceo said on rte news last tuesday, Byran Dobson asked him if after the deadlne a million plus or up to million don,t register and don,t pay does he have the actual money and resources to pinpoint the Identities of non payers and go after them on such a big scale, the ceo replied yes, Complete BS if the money and resouces isn,t there to pinpoint a couple of hundred not registered for the second home tax, the money and resources won,t be there either to pinpoint up a million of property owners not registered after the deadline.

dvpower · 17-03-2012 8:50pm

Am Chile wrote: »

Observation there was an Interesting report about the second home tax a few months ago

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-escape-secondhome-tax-2913935.html

Apply Logic to what the LGMA ceo said on rte news last tuesday, Byran Dobson asked him if after the deadlne a million plus or up to million don,t register and don,t pay does he have the actual money and resources to pinpoint the Identities of non payers and go after them on such a big scale, the ceo replied yes, Complete BS if the money and resouces isn,t there to pinpoint a couple of hundred not registered for the second home tax, the money and resources won,t be there either to pinpoint up a million of property owners not registered after the deadline.

The issue of the NPPR has been done here before.

That charge had a very high compliance rate, so the per person cost of identifing the small remainder of evaders is high.

This charge applies to a much higher number of taxpayers and there is likely to be a lower compliance rate, so a much higher number of evaders.

The costs of setting up the databases, doing the data cleansing and buying or building the data matching software is pretty similar for 1000 matches as it is for 1m. and, we also know, that for the household charge, the work has already started.

Buford Tannen · 17-03-2012 8:54pm

dvpower wrote: »

I think that once they have the databases in place, identifying 1000 and identifying a million is much of a muchness.
Obviously direct enforcement against a million people wouldn't be practical; that's why I think there would be targetted enforcement.

So what is you're vested intrest in this charge?A quick look through you're history shows that you are on here every day morning,noon and night.

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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