DART+ (DART Expansion)

Stonewolf · 29-10-2010 12:08pm

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

I'm surprised how long this thread has gone without any updates.

I just found this video about DART Underground, I don't think it's been posted before but sorry if it has been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8hMdzKhPGE

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8hMdzKhPGE

They're not seriously suggesting open air escalators in our climate?

Also the signs above the doors at Christchurch and Inchecore as depicted in those videos would be illegal.

monument · 29-10-2010 12:28pm

Stonewolf wrote: »

They're not seriously suggesting open air escalators in our climate?

Our climate is a reasonably mild, if not very mild compared to elsewhere.

Aard · 29-10-2010 12:48pm

That's a great video. I wouldn't worry about the Irish-only signs; they'll change them. The stations look spacious, and subtly designed. Leaving price-tags, and whether or not it'll actually be built aside, I think that the travelling public would enjoy using these stations. I can already picture people calling it the "Tube", pretending we're all worldly and sophisticated

patrickmooney · 29-10-2010 1:38pm

Gotta agree with the signs. Can't see why we couldn't have a standard logo for public transport, like london. Change the colour or such to indicate if it's dart/luas/bus etc. Would help in identifying the services.

dubhthach · 29-10-2010 2:35pm

In that video I see Inchicore written in both Irish and English. the irish spelling over the door and the spelling in English on the nearby wall. I'm assuming the same would be the case at Christ Church.

markpb · 29-10-2010 3:37pm

Why do you have to walk through automatic gates to get into St. Stephens Green park (5m22)?

Irish Rail RPU must be thinking about taking over OPW.

Also, isn't it a little pessimistic that the trains are all completely empty in their own promotional videos? The poor woman who boards the train at 8h19 is the only one on the entire train.

monument · 29-10-2010 3:45pm

markpb wrote: »

Why do you have to walk through automatic gates to get into St. Stephens Green park (5m22)? Irish Rail RPU must be thinking about taking over OPW.

Not sure if you're joking, but that a lift to the station.

markpb · 29-10-2010 3:48pm

monument wrote: »

Not sure if you're joking, but that a lift to the station.

I was only half joking, I wasn't sure what they were. The lifts appear to be in-line with the fence into the park.

dRNk SAnTA · 29-10-2010 4:38pm

The stations look nice, but I'm a bit scared of the Irish Rail engineers interior designing skills. It would be nice if they teamed with an architect or design firm, it needn't be expensive. I don't want sound like Gok Wan, but yellow handrails? no thanks (girlfriend).

Pete_Cavan · 29-10-2010 6:46pm

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

The stations look nice, but I'm a bit scared of the Irish Rail engineers interior designing skills. It would be nice if they teamed with an architect or design firm, it needn't be expensive. I don't want sound like Gok Wan, but yellow handrails? no thanks (girlfriend).

That is not the final station design. Im sure the actual stations will be as basic and as practical (engineer speak for cheap) as possible, cant see us having the money to employ architects.

Brian CivilEng · 29-10-2010 9:11pm

I thought that yellow handrails was the current best practise for to increase visibility for those that are visually impaired. Aesthetics are all well and good but not if it interferes with accessibility.

BluntGuy · 30-10-2010 12:23am

Architecture-wise the renders of the proposed stations look functional enough. They don't need to be anything fancy, though it would be nice to have maybe a "signature" underground station - I would think St.Stephen's Green.

The proposed design is more of the same cream tiles/glass variety which is in vogue. I'm not a fan, but it's the least of my worries when it comes to a project such as this. As long as the stations are accessible and relatively well-laid out (which it seems they will be) that's the main thing.

Aard · 30-10-2010 9:14am

+1 BluntGuy.

I'd just like to remind people that for a while there it was touch and go as to whether there would even be escalators; yellow handrails are the least of our worries! The stations look spacious, accessible, and not particularly confusing. Let's just be happy we won't be trudging up and down ten flights of stairs a day!

Pete_Cavan · 30-10-2010 2:30pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

As long as the stations are accessible and relatively well-laid out (which it seems they will be) that's the main thing.

Spot on. As long as they are functional first, they can always paint the walls (and handrails) later.

donvito99 · 30-10-2010 5:15pm

Is it not possible to have the portal closer to Heuston Station and avoid tunneling the whole way to inchicore?

DWCommuter · 30-10-2010 5:51pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Is it not possible to have the portal closer to Heuston Station and avoid tunneling the whole way to inchicore?

That was the original plan, which was bonkers as it would lead to congestion. However the current plan at Inchicore may have congestion issues as well.

Stonewolf · 31-10-2010 1:09am

monument wrote: »

Our climate is a reasonably mild, if not very mild compared to elsewhere.

Our climate includes a lot of rain ...

Zebra3 · 01-11-2010 2:36am

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but if the taxpayer is gonna pay for the DU, I assume that the Dart will start to run as late as the Luas..... :rolleyes:

DWCommuter · 03-11-2010 12:20am

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but if the taxpayer is gonna pay for the DU, I assume that the Dart will start to run as late as the Luas..... :rolleyes:

Who knows who'll be paying for DU. But the issue of later services is bogged down (even now) with traditional union dominated issues. An area that Noellie rollie pass the book Dempsey, his predecessors and successors, will all avoid by taking the long route around and ultimately stagnating the successful implementation of decent public transport, even on a shoestring budget.

The luas as you know it, operates in the way that it does, because it was taken away from CIE via the creation of the RPA, which in itself is just a fragile holding space until a Government is brave enough to dismantle CIE. (The rail aspects of CIE are the most troublesome in terms of unions and work practices.)

Telchak · 03-11-2010 2:07pm

Surprised this hadn't popped up. An article from the Independent last week. A figure of €3billion given this time, no idea here they pulled this number from :rolleyes:

wrote:

PASSENGERS will be able to give their views on plans to build a railway tunnel underneath Dublin city centre when a public hearing begins next month.

An Bord Pleanala will open an oral hearing into the €3bn DART underground project in November which is expected to last for at least a month.
Almost 280 parties have made submissions including government departments, politicians and residents groups.

If approved by the board, it would result in the capital having two DART lines -- one from Maynooth to Bray, and a second from Hazelhatch/Celbridge to Howth.

And Iarnrod Eireann says if the Government approves the €3bn project, the equivalent of 25 million car kilometres will be taken off the roads and there will be 30 fewer road collisions in the capital.

The confidential business report also says that 2,000 jobs will be located around each of the five underground stations at Spencer Dock, Pearse Street, St Stephen's Green, Christchurch and Heuston "as a conservative estimate".

This is because businesses will be encouraged to cluster together to make best use of the line.

The unpublished Iarnrod Eireann report, obtained by the Irish Independent, also predicts that the DART underground linking rail services between Heuston and Connolly stations will have a major beneficial impact on traffic congestion and will cut pollution from emissions.

The system was to be built by 2015 but has been delayed until 2018 because of a longer than expected planning and design process.

The Government also has to give the final green light to the project.

- Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent
Irish Independent

paulm17781 · 03-11-2010 8:49pm

Telchak wrote: »

Surprised this hadn't popped up. An article from the Independent last week. A figure of €3billion given this time, no idea here they pulled this number from :rolleyes:

DU has always been forcast at €2.5 - 3bn.

Sad to see they're still saying it links Heuston and Connolly. That was never the plan.

Telchak · 03-11-2010 9:00pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

DU has always been forcast at €2.5 - 3bn.

The original figure I recall was always €2billion, then went up to €2.5billion when they announced the tunnel would go as far as Inchicore. I've never heard €3billion before

Yixian · 03-11-2010 11:08pm

Eh, my only concern is the station designs, I have heard not mention of any proper architects being consulted/considered. Some minister or other was referring to the future SSG station as "Dublin's Grand Central" a few years back - whereas the renders so far look about as bland and characterless as it is literally possible to be.

Telchak · 03-11-2010 11:18pm

Possible that they could be keeping quiet on these details, worrying it will add to the "vanity project" argument :rolleyes:

Roryhy · 23-11-2010 11:20am

THE State has spent €40m planning and designing an underground railway line that may never be built, new figures reveal.

Iarnrod Eireann has admitted spending tens of millions of euros on the DART underground project, even though the 7.5km line does not yet have planning permission. New figures show that €20m will be spent this year alone planning the line that will run underneath Dublin city centre.

A public hearing into the project, which is expected to last up to four weeks, begins in Tallaght today. But with the Government forced to make huge cuts in public spending, it may yet fall victim to the recession.

Another high-profile rail project for the capital -- Metro North -- has already incurred costs of €135m, and if both are shelved if will mean hundreds of millions of euros of taxpayers' money will have been wasted.

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey has repeatedly insisted the project will be approved if it makes economic sense, and money was set aside in the revised capital spending programme announced last summer.

But a bailout from the International Monetary Fund and the EU could result in all large-scale infrastructure projects being indefinitely postponed.

DART Underground is a 7.5km tunnel linking the Northern line at East Wall to Heuston with new underground stations at Docklands, Pearse St, St Stephen's Green, Christchurch and Heuston; and a surface station at Inchicore.

It will allow for two DART lines in Dublin -- one running from Hazelhatch/Celbridge to Howth, and a second from Maynooth to Bray/Greystones.

It is expected to cost €2.5bn, which includes the tunnel, electrification of lines to Maynooth and Hazelhatch, a depot and 282 new rail cars.

Savings

Iarnrod Eireann said the costs incurred to date were needed to plan a major infrastructure project to the highest international standards.

"This has now been achieved," a spokesman said. "Experience has shown that proper planning at this stage of a project leads to savings later at construction. Subject to planning approval, construction of DART Underground can begin in 2012.

"Considering the scale of the project, and comparing it with other major infrastructure projects, the costs to date represent good value for money."

Four consortia have been shortlisted to build the scheme, and the successful bidder is expected to be announced in 2012. If approved, DART Underground will be finished in 2018.

The business case for the project, published by the National Transport Authority, says the line has a cost-benefit ratio of 2.4. This means that for every euro spent on the project, the State gets €2.40 back in wider benefits such as savings in reduced congestion, costs of dealing with road accidents and fare income.

By 2030, more than 25 million car trips will be removed from the road, meaning there will be 170 fewer accidents a year, it says.

"This is a long-term project with an expected life in excess of 100 years," the business case adds. "It should not be overly affected by short-term economic problems."

DART Underground will allow 20 trains to run in each direction per hour, allowing up to 64,000 commuters to use the line. Up to 7,000 full-time construction jobs will be created.

Paul Melia
Irish Independent

Sponge Bob · 24-11-2010 12:07pm

It will cost €4bn ( north of €3bn) to FINISH. The tunnel element/resignalling/new stock will cost €2bn-€2.5bn

Then they must

1. Quad track/Resignal fully to Hazelhatch through the missing link in Cherry Orchard
2. Extend electrification to Balbriggan or Drogheda/Resignal the northern line
3. Finally they must electrify the Connolly to Maynooth line and possibly Clonsilla - Pace.
4. More rolling stock.

Then it is finished. The only bit that will not need a going over will be Pearse-Greystones.

schemingbohemia · 24-11-2010 6:09pm

Delayed now anyway - reopen thread in 4 years

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=257

Neworder79 · 24-11-2010 8:25pm

Shocking decision, how will DU be built below an existing metro station? Dig up the green for another 5 years?

They (FF) are denying Dublin a more benefical cross city, integrated electric rail network inorder to build a glitzy carrot to dangle over the Dublin electorate and save their asses in the election. :mad:

Roryhy · 24-11-2010 8:39pm

Neworder79 wrote: »

Shocking decision, how will DU be built below an existing metro station? Dig up the green for another 5 years?

They (FF) are denying Dublin a more benefical cross city, integrated electric rail network inorder to build a glitzy carrot to dangle over the Dublin electorate and save their asses in the election. :mad:

Stephens Green station will be built to facilitate both systems, leaving the Dart section unused until the remaining Dart tunneling is complete. The green will only be dug up once.

BluntGuy · 24-11-2010 8:40pm

It wasn't going to start in 2012 anyway, so hardly a surprise.

MN will be next, because it'll be politically unacceptable and highly impractical to dig up the green twice.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

Comments