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Is the educational system rigged ?

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  • 05-04-2009 9:29pm
    #1
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭


    Well i have always thought so , its rigged so only the elite win . The way it is done they make sure there are no definitions to words in the textbooks , and the teachers never tell the students to look up the definition of a word they do not understand , also they make sure there are no dictionaries' in the school , now you see the students with wealthy parents' they get a private tutor who tell them what certain words mean and clear up anything they don't understand , so these elite students' understand what the teachers' are talking about , the rest of the students' don't understand and they have no way of finding out , so they don't get as good results in their exams , now this is the way it was when i went to school . I do tell people i know who are younger than me about this and a lot do tend to agree with me that the education system is rigged in the way i have described above , so i don't know but is this still going on today in our schools' here in Ireland ?
    Let me know what you think of this conspiracy theory , that our educaton system is rigged so only the elite can win .


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    #2
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Jesus what school did you go to?
    My english teacher always told us to look up words we didn't understand and we were all required to have English dictionaries.
    You also know that anyone can hire a private tutor right?


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    #3
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    espinolman wrote: »
    Well i have always thought so , its rigged so only the elite win . The way it is done they make sure there are no definitions to words in the textbooks , and the teachers never tell the students to look up the definition of a word they do not understand , also they make sure there are no dictionaries' in the school , now you see the students with wealthy parents' they get a private tutor who tell them what certain words mean and clear up anything they don't understand , so these elite students' understand what the teachers' are talking about , the rest of the students' don't understand and they have no way of finding out , so they don't get as good results in their exams , now this is the way it was when i went to school . I do tell people i know who are younger than me about this and a lot do tend to agree with me that the education system is rigged in the way i have described above , so i don't know but is this still going on today in our schools' here in Ireland ?
    Let me know what you think of this conspiracy theory , that our educaton system is rigged so only the elite can win .

    Did you come to that based on anything other than you're own experiences in school?


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    #4
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    King Mob wrote: »
    Jesus what school did you go to?
    My english teacher always told us to look up words we didn't understand and we were all required to have English dictionaries.
    You also know that anyone can hire a private tutor right?

    Ditto. And I went to a community school.

    This conspiracy is BUSTED.


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    #5
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    King Mob wrote: »
    My english teacher always told us to look up words we didn't understand and we were all required to have English dictionaries.
    Really , you had a teacher that told you to look up words , and not only that but had english dictionaries' , that sounds great , you were very lucky i think.
    King Mob wrote: »
    You also know that anyone can hire a private tutor right?
    If they have the money .


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    #6
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    espinolman wrote: »
    Really , you had a teacher that told you to look up words , and not only that but had english dictionaries' , that sounds great , you were very lucky i think.
    And what was stopping you buying a dictionary? Or asking your parents?
    Honestly I find it hard to believe that any school has this practice institutionalised.

    espinolman wrote: »
    If they have the money .
    Yes, and?


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    #7
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    I also went to a community ... in Tallaght ... and even WE had dictionaries!


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    #8
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    6th wrote: »
    I also went to a community ... in Tallaght ... and even WE had dictionaries!

    You have my condolences.


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    #9
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    6th wrote: »
    I also went to a community ... in Tallaght ... and even WE had dictionaries!

    I guess we were 'lucky' too...


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    #10
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    6th wrote: »
    Did you come to that based on anything other than you're own experiences in school?
    I was talking to a friend of mine that went to a different school , in dublin about this and he agreed with me , so well seems this is something that needs to be discussed to me , and that is why i have started this thread .


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    #11
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    King Mob wrote: »
    And what was stopping you buying a dictionary?
    You know teenagers would not necessarily know that their problem was not understanding the meanings of words , they might think they are stupid because their teacher tells them that they are a stupid twit and then punch them in the head ( although i know the teachers' don't do that any more) .


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    #12
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    espinolman wrote: »
    You know teenagers would not necessarily know that their problem was not understanding the meanings of words , they might think they are stupid because their teacher tells them that they are a stupid twit and then punch them in the head ( although i know the teachers' don't do that any more) .
    You think maybe you went to a **** school? A bit more likely than some vast conspiracy.

    When abouts did you go to school?


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    #13
    espinolman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭espinolman


    King Mob wrote: »
    You think maybe you went to a **** school? A bit more likely than some vast conspiracy.

    When abouts did you go to school?
    I'd prefer not to say , it would give away my identity , but this thread is not about me , its more to explore this CT by what other posters' think and answers to the original post will give a rough indication of wheater the educational system is rigged or not .


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    #14
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    My school in the northside of Dublin in the 80's was fine too and hardly anyone had any money. A lot of people went places.


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    #15
    Fiona500
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Fiona500


    What textbooks were you using? Every school book that I have ever used had a glossary in the back.


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    #16
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    It's difficult to get into the ivy league colleges without connections, even if you do have a lot of money. Yes there is elitism in the education system and there is certainly indoctrination (religious here) but there's no conspiracy in it as its out in the open for anyone to see.


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    #17
    Purple Gorilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 865 ✭✭✭Purple Gorilla


    espinolman wrote: »
    I'd prefer not to say , it would give away my identity , but this thread is not about me , its more to explore this CT by what other posters' think and answers to the original post will give a rough indication of wheater the educational system is rigged or not .
    Salman?

    TBH I think you're looking for a conspiracy that just isn't there. I'm in secondary school right now and literally none of that happens or has happened. And you make it sound like private tutors cost like €200 a lesson... I got a tutor for honours maths for my Junior Cert last year, €20 a week and he helped bring my F in the mocks up to a B :)


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    #18
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    espinolman wrote: »
    I'd prefer not to say , it would give away my identity , but this thread is not about me , its more to explore this CT by what other posters' think and answers to the original post will give a rough indication of wheater the educational system is rigged or not .

    Okay...

    Firstly the internet isn't anonymous so if for some reason (and I can't imagine why) someone really wanted to track you down they could.

    Secondly why on earth would it matter if we could tell who you were? (See first point.)

    So far everyone's experiences in school appear to be different to yours so maybe you should give us more info as to where and when you went to school. Assuming you do want to discuss this.


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    #19
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    So so far we have 1 person saying the schools are consciously keeping us down, 7 saying schools are helpful and fine.

    And 1 person addressed the issue of elitism in colleges which would be a CT if it wasnt for the fact it was so obvious and there for everyone to see.


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    #20
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    It's difficult to get into the ivy league colleges without connections, even if you do have a lot of money. Yes there is elitism in the education system and there is certainly indoctrination (religious here) but there's no conspiracy in it as its out in the open for anyone to see.

    What have Ivy League colleges got to do with the Irish education system?


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    #21
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Purple Gorilla wrote: »
    I got a tutor for honours maths for my Junior Cert last year, €20 a week and he helped bring my F in the mocks up to a B :)

    I know yeah. You swear you were getting a Nobel Prize winner to tutor you, as opposed to the reality of some undergrad/postgrad student trying to earn an extra few quid a week.


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    #22
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Again hand up here, Christian Bros school, did not come from a wealthy background.

    I'm sure other people here can remember their school days, and keeping them in good condition all the year round, and selling them on 2nd hand at the end of the year. There used to a bookshop in Dundrum that specialised in selling 2nd hand school books, it's where I got school books. I had three dictionaries, English, Irish/English, and German/English.

    Es this is a crazy conspiracy, dictionaries, new, cost less than five euro.


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    #23
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    Purple Gorilla wrote: »
    Anyone remember Salman?


    I'm convinced this guy is Salman...the guy a while back on boards who cheated in the LC and posted about it and then everyone rang joe duffy and reported him and we all lived happily ever after :)

    PG, read the charter ... specifically the bit I've quoted below.
    • Respect other posters
    Snide remarks and bitching will not be tolerated, nor will accusations thrown at other members of the Boards.ie community. Singling out a poster or posters, including stating things like "some posters on here" could land you in trouble.

    I'm deleting posts now. Next comes infractions.


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    #24
    toiletduck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭toiletduck


    espinolman wrote: »
    also they make sure there are no dictionaries' in the school

    First thing we were told do in our first English class in secondary school was to get a decent (i.e. not one of the little pocket ones) dictionary. A Brothers school. This was in '97. I really have never heard of anything along the lines you're describing.


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    #25
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    So yes I think we can safely say that the education system is like life, rigged. The stupider you are, the harder they are.


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    #26
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    Diogenes wrote: »
    So yes I think we can safely say that the education system is like life, rigged. The stupider you are, the harder they are.

    Nonsense, there's plenty of dumb ****s who eventually got through private colleges thanks to Daddy's income and contacts. Capitalism controls everything, and guess what, it's an unfair system.


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    #27
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Kernel wrote: »
    Nonsense, there's plenty of dumb ****s who eventually got through private colleges thanks to Daddy's income and contacts. Capitalism controls everything, and guess what, it's an unfair system.

    Is that just cuase you say so? I don't remember there ever being a case like this in Ireland. And please don't say we just haven't found out yet, either you can show it to be happening or you can't. And if you can't it's just your opinion.


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    #28
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Kernel wrote: »
    Nonsense, there's plenty of dumb ****s who eventually got through private colleges thanks to Daddy's income and contacts. Capitalism controls everything, and guess what, it's an unfair system.

    So is socialism.

    What can you do, eh?


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    #29
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    Kernel wrote: »
    Nonsense, there's plenty of dumb ****s who eventually got through private colleges thanks to Daddy's income and contacts.

    And there's plenty of people who started out with nothing, or next to nothing, and through hard work, study, and discipline have risen to the top of their fields, be it business, medicine, law, politics, whatever.
    Capitalism controls everything,

    And your flawless alternative system which will justly and wisely is called....

    Ssssh ssssh, quick someone write this down, Kernel's going to explain how we bring about a Utopian Meritocracy.
    and guess what, it's an unfair system.

    Life is unfair. Nature is unfair. Deal.


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    #30
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Diogenes wrote: »
    And there's plenty of people who started out with nothing, or next to nothing, and through hard work, study, and discipline have risen to the top of their fields, be it business, medicine, law, politics, whatever.



    And your flawless alternative system which will justly and wisely is called....

    Ssssh ssssh, quick someone write this down, Kernel's going to explain how we bring about a Utopian Meritocracy.



    Life is unfair. Nature is unfair. Deal.


    Problem with this argument, life is unfair does not equate to tolerating injustice. Deal in this case means accept the way things are. You can see this type of logic being used for many things, and if you like could be invoked for systems like feudalism, fascism etc, but in the end its just a tautological justification relying on a distorted and overly simplified generalization of the natural world, and then applying it to an evolution in nature, namely the human race, for the way things are.

    If there are problems with a system then they must be fixed, not accepted. If anything the trend in human history towards increased equality and civility (if you compare and contrast the present with the barbarism of earlier generations) showcases that as a species we demand greater fairness as an inherent property of our nature.


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    #31
    Kernel
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭Kernel


    meglome wrote: »
    Is that just cuase you say so? I don't remember there ever being a case like this in Ireland. And please don't say we just haven't found out yet, either you can show it to be happening or you can't. And if you can't it's just your opinion.

    No, I've met quite a few. In surprisingly high circles. Ah but that's just an anecdote eh? :)
    Flamed Diving wrote: »
    So is socialism.

    What can you do, eh?

    Yeah I used to be a fan of socialism, but don't believe in that either. As for what we can do, exactly what Nyarlothothep said.


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