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to be free!! mean's what!?

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    #32
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    Ok. Fair enough. I'm not going to argue every point with you. Can I ask you a question though? Can you see any problems with our society and if so have you got any ideas how to fix them or will you just leave it to those who've proven themselves incompetant?


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    #33
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Ok. Fair enough. I'm not going to argue every point with you. Can I ask you a question though? Can you see any problems with our society and if so have you got any ideas how to fix them or will you just leave it to those who've proven themselves incompetant?

    The main problem is that people (us) vote the same politicians into power over and over. We have the power to change it, but don't use it correctly.


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    #34
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Ok. Fair enough. I'm not going to argue every point with you.


    Thank god because the post were getting too long! :)
    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Can I ask you a question though? Can you see any problems with our society and if so have you got any ideas how to fix them or will you just leave it to those who've proven themselves incompetant?

    Yes, there's a whole lot wrong with this society. But there's few people on earth with the ability to fix it instantly. It'll take time and patients to go over each and every area of our day to day lives and sort out the problems. That's why we elect governments, so they can do the hard work, while we can get busy living. We just have to find a government that is truly willing to put the people first.

    Sadly, I just don't have enough faith in humanity for that to ever happen.


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    #35
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    humanji wrote: »
    Thank god because the post were getting too long! :)

    Lol, tbh I was jus too lazy to reply:D.
    Sadly, I just don't have enough faith in humanity for that to ever happen.

    Wow. This cut me deep. Do many people think like this? Have you ever heard the phrase "Heaven on Earth". Well I believe in it with all my heart. We can make it if only we have faith in each other and realise what we already know, that you're only as strong as your weakest link. There's always hope. Peace brother.


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    #36
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    thecommander wrote: »
    The main problem is that people (us) vote the same politicians into power over and over. We have the power to change it, but don't use it correctly.
    We need to give ourselves a break here and stop blaming ourselves for our probs. IT ISN'T OUR FAULT. What is an election but an illusion of choice. Like Ireland its either Party A or Party B everywhere. How is that our fault when no matter what choice we make we'll still get shafted. Political parties dont have different agendas. How many promises are made before elections that are never carried through? Nothing ever changes. So we can continue to live the status quo, which from what I'm reading pretty much everyone agrees isn't perfect or we can use the most powerful weapon at our disposal, the word NO.


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    #37
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    We need to give ourselves a break here and stop blaming ourselves for our probs. IT ISN'T OUR FAULT. What is an election but an illusion of choice. Like Ireland its either Party A or Party B everywhere. How is that our fault when no matter what choice we make we'll still get shafted. Political parties dont have different agendas. How many promises are made before elections that are never carried through? Nothing ever changes. So we can continue to live the status quo, which from what I'm reading pretty much everyone agrees isn't perfect or we can use the most powerful weapon at our disposal, the word NO.

    Plenty of independent candidates out there. Ive never voted FF or FG in any election. It's not an illusion of choice.

    I'm currently working doing posters, flyers etc for an independent, going for local elections in June. I have a fair idea that he'll get in, as did the last independent I worked with 5 years ago. So, if the system is as flawed as you say, how did he get in?


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    #38
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    thecommander wrote: »
    Plenty of independent candidates out there. Ive never voted FF or FG in any election. It's not an illusion of choice.

    I'm currently working doing posters, flyers etc for an independent, going for local elections in June. I have a fair idea that he'll get in, as did the last independent I worked with 5 years ago. So, if the system is as flawed as you say, how did he get in?

    You may have never voted for them but they always win. Why? One word, funding.

    But maybe your on about the dail and your independants voice is being heard. Would that be during the 100 odd days they actually sit or maybe they sit for so few days so the independants dont have a voice. Am sure all dail time at the mo is economy this and economy that, your lad is drowned out.


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    #39
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    We need to give ourselves a break here and stop blaming ourselves for our probs. IT ISN'T OUR FAULT. What is an election but an illusion of choice. Like Ireland its either Party A or Party B everywhere. How is that our fault when no matter what choice we make we'll still get shafted. Political parties dont have different agendas. How many promises are made before elections that are never carried through? Nothing ever changes. So we can continue to live the status quo, which from what I'm reading pretty much everyone agrees isn't perfect or we can use the most powerful weapon at our disposal, the word NO.

    But you see it is our fault, almost completely our fault. We kept voting in the same people over and over. We didn't go out and protest when they did things that were stupid and wrong. SO WE ARE TO BLAME.

    People have more say now than they ever had, despite the claims to the contrary. We've never been in a better position to ensure change yet the majority are happy with the status quo. Things can change if we try, but we actually need to try.


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    #40
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    meglome wrote: »
    But you see it is our fault, almost completely our fault. We kept voting in the same people over and over. We didn't go out and protest when they did things that were stupid and wrong. SO WE ARE TO BLAME.

    People have more say now than they ever had, despite the claims to the contrary. We've never been in a better position to ensure change yet the majority are happy with the status quo. Things can change if we try, but we actually need to try.

    So what then, do we just give up? Do we use my favourite Homerism, "You've learned a valuable lesson today Bart, never try".

    We wont do it by protesting either cause if we're united we won't need too.

    We cant change the past but we can create the future.


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    #41
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Freedom is taking responsibility for your own actions and not being treated like a child.

    People generally do take responsibility for their own actions...based on their own interpretation of what responsibility they should take.

    It is only once we start to apply other people's opinions to the subject, that we find otherwise.

    "Being treated like a child" is similarly subjective. Some people find being told what to do as being treated like a child....so if they decide that they can behave in a manner that the rest of society consider irresponsible, they are being treated like a child if society tries to tell them they can't.

    Which leads us to the problem....the two "aspects" which comprise your definition of freedom can find themselves completely at odds with each other. If you think I'm not taking responsibility for my actions, but I think I am...what gets done? More importantly, if I think you'd be treating me like a child for as much as voicing the opinion that I'm not taking the responsibility you think I should...does that mean you have no right to do so?

    What does it mean to be free? You're free to decide that yourself. You choose what freedom means to you...just allow that others / society are free to choose otherwise.


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    #42
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    bonkey wrote: »
    People generally do take responsibility for their own actions...based on their own interpretation of what responsibility they should take.

    It is only once we start to apply other people's opinions to the subject, that we find otherwise.

    "Being treated like a child" is similarly subjective. Some people find being told what to do as being treated like a child....so if they decide that they can behave in a manner that the rest of society consider irresponsible, they are being treated like a child if society tries to tell them they can't.

    Which leads us to the problem....the two "aspects" which comprise your definition of freedom can find themselves completely at odds with each other. If you think I'm not taking responsibility for my actions, but I think I am...what gets done? More importantly, if I think you'd be treating me like a child for as much as voicing the opinion that I'm not taking the responsibility you think I should...does that mean you have no right to do so?

    What does it mean to be free? You're free to decide that yourself. You choose what freedom means to you...just allow that others / society are free to choose otherwise.

    Typical:rolleyes:

    I've been talking about equality and helping each other. All I've done is speak my truth on here, your reply was anticipated.


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    #43
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Typical:rolleyes:

    I've been talking about equality and helping each other. All I've done is speak my truth on here, your reply was anticipated.

    Indeed but Bonkey is pointing out that your interpretation of this and other peoples will be different. You are entitled to that interpretation and so are they.


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    #44
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    You two should get a room.


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    #45
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    You two should get a room.

    But Switzerland is so far away, plus my sister lives there.


    I'm with you on making things better I just think you're being overly simplistic about it.


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    #46
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    You two should get a room.

    Dont be so childish.


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    #47
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Being free, is YOU, been in harmony and experiencing YOU as you are.

    It is allowing you to create and be what you feel/think you want to be.

    Freedom.


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    #48
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    mysterious wrote: »
    Being free, is YOU, been in harmony and experiencing YOU as you are.

    It is allowing you to create and be what you feel/think you want to be.

    Freedom.

    And the freedom to disagree with YOUR perception. YES?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #49
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    K-9 wrote: »
    And the freedom to disagree with YOUR perception. YES?


    I said "you" what freedom is to you.

    But since your asking something universal, the universe is free when it expands and it is free as one. its all of you. being you;)


    You might find it hard to understand;)


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    #50
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    mysterious wrote: »
    I said "you" what freedom is to you.

    But since your asking something universal, the universe is free when it expands and it is free as one. its all of you. being you;)


    You might find it hard to understand;)

    Think I got my answer, or your perception!
    :p

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #51
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    K-9 I'm not here to get into a childish rant here. Seriously

    Freedom is freedom, if you want to get redicoulous and really off about it, create another thread, where you can make deliberate attempts to tongue tie the word into something else.

    I'm sticking to this thread.


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    #52
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Not at all, define freedom? It's as OT as you'll get.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #53
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Do you expect people to repeat themselves?

    So if I explain again, will I be sure you listened. Should I rephrase it in a way for you, to want to have it in a comforting tone childlike way to describe freedom so it will deem to agree with you.

    Some people don't care of opinon or peoples view's they just like to hear what they want to hear, this is the case with you so far. As the actions are clear above. Don't waste my time.


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    #54
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    mysterious wrote: »
    Do you expect people to repeat themselves?

    So if I explain again, will I be sure you listened. Should I rephrase it in a way for you, to want to have it in a comforting tone childlike way to describe freedom so it will deem to agree with you.

    Some people don't care of opinon or peoples view's they just like to hear what they want to hear, this is the case with you so far. As the actions are clear above. Don't waste my time.

    Huh?

    Can you not elaborate a bit more? Who cares what anybody thinks?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #55
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    K-9 wrote: »
    Huh?

    Can you not elaborate a bit more? Who cares what anybody thinks?


    freedom.

    OK.

    Freedom is been able to create your universe and you will come to that stage ;)


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    #56
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    OK, So what is this universe?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #57
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    K-9 wrote: »
    OK, So what is this universe?


    One Universe. All that can possibly exist, be it, be thought of what exist in it's field or what is, real or imaginery is both the same intially it both holds the same energy. All energy, matter dispersed and expanding all the time till complete expansion and harmony is created, then all the councious/aware self of the cosmos will unite as one again. When your soul reaches it's maxiumum, your energy field will be as great as a single atom universe, and your entity will create your universe. All souls are connected, all life is connect, all energy is connected.

    Your freedom, is YOU creating your universe to be one, expand, disband and collapse.

    Perfection is completion. You have the power, of all freedom that there is.


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    #58
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    Typical:rolleyes:

    I find that this reply is treating me like a child. Are you infringing on my freedom?

    If you disagree that you're treating me like a child, aren't you then proving my point that such a position is entirely subjective?
    All I've done is speak my truth on here, your reply was anticipated.
    Personally, I don't really care whehter or not you personally anticipated my reply. I was was also offering (a part of) my truth...and yet I get the distinct impression that you feel that somehow I'm wrong to exercise this freedom, or that you disapprove of me doing so.

    This, in effect, only adds to the point I was making. Freedom is subjective, and individual freedom is more-or-less meaningless in a societal context, as it ends up butting against the individual freedoms of others in a manner where one person's exercise of freedom becomes the denial of freedom to another.


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    #59
    jackiebrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 123 ✭✭jackiebrown


    meglome wrote: »
    But Switzerland is so far away, plus my sister lives there.


    I'm with you on making things better I just think you're being overly simplistic about it.

    This will be the hardest but most natural time we will have. I think of myself as a wavefunction, peaks and troughs.


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    #60
    thecommander
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    jackiebrown wrote: »
    I think of myself as a wavefunction, peaks and troughs.

    And landing on zero twice every cycle.


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    #61
    jonbravo
    Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭jonbravo


    i've yet to give my opinion so i will...

    To be honest when i wrote the OP i had watched 'the shawshank redemption'.
    Fear can hold you prisoner...hope can set you free...
    everyone's think's and feel's free in this world, things like law's,rules,and war....even every day life holds person's prisoner to fear, The fear of not having hope is 'the shawshank conspiracy'.
    ''we sat and drank with the sun on our shoulder's and felt like free-men''
    so to have no freedom, is to fear no hope,to have freedom to me is to have hope,and an enduring relationship with your[my] soul....


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