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Go Safe Camera Van living in Navan!

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    #92
    Vego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Vego


    highdef wrote: »
    Well if it is the case that a neon sign is covering the left sign and tree branches are covering the right hand side, then there may be a case where a speeding case could be dismissed if there is good quality photographic evidence showing that the obstructions mean that speed limit signs are not seen in time/at all. There's no point trying to enforce a speed limit if the signage is no up to the job.

    Agreed someone should maybe take a few photographs of the set up ...I suspect that's why the van is parked there a lot recently because he is getting a lot of new customers ....it would be awful if a lot of fines got overturned ðŸ˜


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    #93
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    If I get some idle time the weekend I will do a few photos. You never know, I might get revenue van in one of them!

    The Kerry registered van was located on the main stretch of road after Ross cross towards Navan this evening. That's 3 days since Friday the van have been on that stretch. How many of these vans are there in the country for this work? I thought there were only 12?


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    #94
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Fiskar wrote: »
    If I get some idle time the weekend I will do a few photos. You never know, I might get revenue van in one of them!

    The Kerry registered van was located on the main stretch of road after Ross cross towards Navan this evening. That's 3 days since Friday the van have been on that stretch. How many of these vans are there in the country for this work? I thought there were only 12?

    Wasn't there also a fatal accident on that stretch a few years back. Group of teens in a car went of the road as far as I recall.


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    #95
    Fiskar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Wasn't there also a fatal accident on that stretch a few years back. Group of teens in a car went of the road as far as I recall.

    There was a fatality there over a decade ago and three pedestrians mowed down in the early hours of the morning between the Willows and the Ardboyne 15 years ago, the road layout, M3, traffic lights are all new since then.


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    #96
    chrysagon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭chrysagon


    I have noticed some of the vans buried among trees, in areas strictly used as a cash cow ambush


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    #97
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Fiskar wrote:
    There was a fatality there over a decade ago and three pedestrians mowed down in the early hours of the morning between the Willows and the Ardboyne 15 years ago, the road layout, M3, traffic lights are all new since then.
    Drunk driver involved iirc, do not see how that could have been considered speed related as the individual involved was unable to literally stand after he was pulled from the car.


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    #98
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Fiskar wrote: »
    There was a fatality there over a decade ago and three pedestrians mowed down in the early hours of the morning between the Willows and the Ardboyne 15 years ago, the road layout, M3, traffic lights are all new since then.

    There's been more than that on that stretch of road. I specifically remember a group of young folk going off the road into the ditch. The driver was killed. Was in the last four years if I recall. I'll find it and get back to you.


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    #99
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,139 ✭✭✭highdef


    About 12 or 13 years ago I was travelling southbound on the N3 (a road I rarely travel!) and as I approached Ross Cross , a car went to pull out from the right hand side road so that it could cross over to the left hand side road. Unfortunately there was a car on the N3 heading northbound that was doing well over the 100kmh limit and the inevitable happened. Thankfully the speeding driver did try his best to slow the car as quickly as possible (was a modern car at the time which helped) but it hit the other car on the rear side and it spun around a couple of times. 3 kids were in the car....thankfully none seriously injured. That could have been a lot lot worse. Both parties were in the wrong in some way, shape or form, to be fair however the driver of the car that was hit under estimated just how fast the other car was going. There were a good few witnesses around to give statements to the Guards (the guy who had been speeding was not very popular with the witnesses considering he was a hairs breath from potentially seriously injuring or killing a few kids) and from what I remember, he was taken off to the Garda station. No idea what happened after that.

    But in a nutshell, from that single experience any speed detection in that particular area appears very much warranted. It shouldn't take a fatality to enable speed detection to be put in place in any particular location. Local knowledge of an area by the very people that live in any such area should be taken into consideration.


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    #100
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    True, but hiding behind a sign doesn't serve to reduce speed or improve habits in any way.


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    #101
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    bladespin wrote: »
    True, but hiding behind a sign doesn't serve to reduce speed or improve habits in any way.

    It will when you get your 2 points notification in the post.


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    #102
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    It will when you get your 2 points notification in the post.


    How so? It will only serve to irritate rather than change behaviour even then the legality is highly questionable, remember these vans are supposed to be a visible deterrent not a trap hence their livery, it could be worth seeing what a judge would think about concealment considering Gosafe doesn't have the best standing in the courts already.


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    #103
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    bladespin wrote: »
    How so?

    2 points on your licence and possibly increased insurance cost.

    You do realise you only points for exceeding the speed limit.

    That the speed vans are hidden is more likely to be effective in getting people to slow down.

    It's not rocket science.

    Good luck with your class action law suit agains the Go-Safe vans.


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    #104
    Vego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Vego


    I thought the vans were ment to be clearly visible even from a distance to encourage safe driving ...surely if it's hidden away and seen at the last minute it would lead to say one in every three drivers breaking hard and in a dangerous way


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    #105
    Vego
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Vego


    So there is a precedent set of a judge throwing out speeding fines due to the vans parking directly behind a speed sign .....as is the one in Johnstown

    "Justice Department demand answers after 17 Go Safe speeding cases dismissed,
    Serious questions have been raised over the validity of speeding prosecutions brought to court following the use of Go Safe vans after a judge threw out another 17 cases yesterday.


    The Department of Justice has asked gardaí for a new report into the operation of Go Safe traffic cameras after Judge Sean MacBride dismissed all 17 prosecutions brought before him at Monaghan District Court.

    The judge said he believed “the chain of evidence was inherently flawed” and there were “defects in the serving of the summonses”.

    The judge also said he would be dismissing all such cases in his court area, which covers Cavan and Monaghan.

    A Department of Justice spokesman said that “the department can confirm that it has asked the Garda authorities for a report on the cases dismissed today by Monaghan District Court”.

    Judge MacBride also claimed the Go Safe vans were often operating just inside or outside 30km/h zones, in places where detecting offences was like fishing in a “goldfish bowl”, adding the ‘Go Safe’ operation was actually “bringing the law into disrepute”."


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    #106
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Avatar MIA wrote: »

    Good luck with your class action law suit agains the Go-Safe vans.

    Don't need a class action suit (BTW this is Ireland not America, an individual can challenge here), simply challenging the summons in court is your right here, there have already been numerous cases (if not more) of GoSafe penalties thrown out of court here.

    Challenge to GoSafe
    No luck needed, they have a very specific mandate and entrapment and/or dirty tricks is not part of it.


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    #107
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    bladespin wrote: »
    Don't need a class action suit (BTW this is Ireland not America, an individual can challenge here), simply challenging the summons in court is your right here, there have already been numerous cases (if not more) of GoSafe penalties thrown out of court here.

    Challenge to GoSafe
    No luck needed.

    Then challenge it and report back. Either way you are likely to change your behaviour due to the hassle (at the very least) of having to challenge how you were caught speeding.

    BTW, I'm not defending Go-Safe's clandestine endeavours, but they ARE having an impact other than collecting money.


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    #108
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    BTW, I'm not defending Go-Safe's clandestine endeavours, but they ARE having an impact other than collecting money.

    What impact are they having? I spend quite a lot of time on the road and can see no change in behaviour bar the warning flashes which does seem to have improved camaraderie among drivers.


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    #109
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    bladespin wrote: »
    What impact are they having? I spend quite a lot of time on the road and can see no change in behaviour bar the warning flashes which does seem to have improved camaraderie among drivers.

    Even the flashing of the lights is getting people to slow down. BTW, people flash people that are deemed driving too fast and people slow down thinking there are Go-Safe vans up ahead.

    Your self survey is of little use.


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    #110
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Even the flashing of the lights is getting people to slow down. BTW, people flash people that are deemed driving too fast and people slow down thinking there are Go-Safe vans up ahead.

    Your self survey is of little use.

    How about the RSA published statistics then??? Fatal accidents have risen each year since their introduction, ya sure they're having an effect on driving.


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    #111
    ZENER
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭ZENER


    According to GoSafe these vans are positioned in areas where there is a high record of accidents. I've driven the N4 right to Sligo where for the last few miles there are white crosses every few meters marking deceased drivers but not once have I seen a GoSafe camera there.

    Ken


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    #112
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    bladespin wrote: »
    How about the RSA published statistics then??? Fatal accidents have risen each year since their introduction, ya sure they're having an effect on driving.

    Do I think people slow down because there could be the possibility of Go-Safe fans. 100%. You'd be a fool not to, especially if you've got people flashing at you.

    Whether that means the roads are safer is a separate issue. I'm saying they are having an effect, which is contradicting a post that said they had no effect.


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    #113
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Do I think people slow down because there could be the possibility of Go-Safe fans. 100%. You'd be a fool not to, especially if you've got people flashing at you.

    Whether that means the roads are safer is a separate issue. I'm saying they are having an effect, which is contradicting a post that said they had no effect.

    Well there are a lot of fools on the road.


    Speeds are up, collisions and fatalities are up too so these things are a failure, their primary objective is to reduce speeding and thereby improve road safety, there's a clue in their name 'GoSafe', it's simply not happening,
    there is no seperate issue.

    I'm all for improving road safety, I have a vested interest in this, but hiding these things in already safe areas and behind signs is silly, they would be much better served sticking them at the actual scene of the crashes not miles away - there is a stretch on this road just outside Dunshaughlin that is notorious for crashes but it's not there, it's behind a sign post near a set of lights in Navan, right road, wrong place???

    How about outside a school even? I've witnessed some eegit behaviour passing Skryne School but it's not there either, we could do with one near St. Olivers too, the lights and school there do little to slow people down, it's pure luck there hasn't been a fatality but there has been plenty of crashes but no, it's not there either, the list goes on.


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    #114
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    bladespin wrote: »
    Well there are a lot of fools on the road.


    Speeds are up, collisions and fatalities are up too so these things are a failure, their primary objective is to reduce speeding and thereby improve road safety, there's a clue in their name 'GoSafe', it's simply not happening,
    there is no seperate issue.

    I'm all for improving road safety, I have a vested interest in this, but hiding these things in already safe areas and behind signs is silly, they would be much better served sticking them at the actual scene of the crashes not miles away - there is a stretch on this road just outside Dunshaughlin that is notorious for crashes but it's not there, it's behind a sign post near a set of lights in Navan, right road, wrong place???

    How about outside a school even? I've witnessed some eegit behaviour passing Skryne School but it's not there either, we could do with one near St. Olivers too, the lights and school there do little to slow people down, it's pure luck there hasn't been a fatality but there has been plenty of crashes.

    I'm not defending Go Safe one bit. And they do park near the main primary school near us... when the school is on a break.


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    #115
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    bladespin wrote: »
    How about the RSA published statistics then??? Fatal accidents have risen each year since their introduction, ya sure they're having an effect on driving.

    Speed isn't the only cause of fatal accidents. The Garda force has been cut by nearly 1500 since 2011 so it's a bit presumptive to be putting blame on GoSafe vans not having an effect.
    ZENER wrote: »
    According to GoSafe these vans are positioned in areas where there is a high record of accidents. I've driven the N4 right to Sligo where for the last few miles there are white crosses every few meters marking deceased drivers but not once have I seen a GoSafe camera there.

    You mean the M4?


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    #116
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,139 ✭✭✭highdef


    The M4 ends shortly after Kinnegad, heading westbound. It's the N4 after that, unfortunately.


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    #117
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Speed isn't the only cause of fatal accidents. The Garda force has been cut by nearly 1500 since 2011 so it's a bit presumptive to be putting blame on GoSafe vans not having an effect.

    Bit presumptive saying I'm blaming GoSafe, just pointing out that they are not having the great effect some might think they are.


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