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Why is Kenny refusing an honest debate?

  • 26-05-2012 4:56pm
    #1
    Qualz
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭


    The Irish clearly want to leave their children with a future that is not burdened by a huge debt incurred by their parents. It seems that Kenny does not share this concern. So why is he shying away from an honest open debate on television? I wonder when his evasiveness will finally evaporate? Sooner than most observers think.


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Comments

  • #2
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Because he is a Bufoon and cannot talk off the cuff.


  • #3
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Given their carry on during the presidential debate the last thing we can expect is a fair and honest debate.
    And no, I can't stand gallagher but the end doesn't always justify the means, an ethical position sf has always had trouble with.


  • #4
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,855 ✭✭✭Patser


    Hootanany wrote: »
    Because he is a Bufoon and cannot talk off the cuff.


    Don't agree woth the Bufoon part of this statment but Kenny is never the most comfortable in a debate and in this case, he probably ffels it's not worth the risk. It's looking like it'll be a Yes vote (although maybe not as comfortably as it looked last week), so why risk doing a big debate where a gaffe might blow it.

    On top of that it deprives Gerry Adams the chance to be seen as the leader of the opposition (since FF are backing the vote). For Adams he has little to lose, a bit like a losing gambler calling 'double or quits' when so far down he's lost already, whereas for Kenny it's all risk. Enda seems to be better playing a manager role, organising things and the like rather than as a foot soldier in the cut and thrust of a debate - he sucked in the leaders debates before the election too (remember him getting under Michael Martin's skin by continuously repeating the 5 point plan mantra and reciting FF's failures, rather than really debating any point).

    All that said though I've been impressed with this approach on Enda's, he's assigned Ministers to do their jobs and only really steps in when they've messed up.


  • #5
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Because he knows deep down that he is not a good debater.


  • #6
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    The problem with a debate on a fairly technical subject like this is that the "winner" is generally decreed to be the side that makes the most noise in the most confident and assertive manner. That noise doesn't have to have any basis whatsoever in fact, reason or logic.

    I've yet to see a TV debate on a referendum that left anyone feeling particularly enlightened afterwards.


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  • #7
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Because he knows deep down that he is not a good debater.

    Oh he is a Master.


  • #8
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Hootanany wrote: »
    Oh he is a Master.

    Master of what? Making Noonan look like he is the Taoiseach, and not him?


  • #9
    brownacid
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭brownacid


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Master of what? Making Noonan look like he is the Taoiseach, and not him?



    Enda kenny is a masterdebater


  • #10
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    I agree entirely with what Patser and oscarBravo have said.

    Also I have no idea where this idea come from that Edna Kenny has to debate it in the first place. One of the main roles of a manager is to delegate. It's really bizarre to me that the no camp appoint him leader of the Yes campaign and then demand he debate it. Anything else they feel it's their right to decide?


  • #11
    nacimroc
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭nacimroc


    Because he ends up answering questions that have nothing to do with the treaty!

    Its just like the NO campaigners during Lisbon treaty. The min wage went to €1.47 and abortions on every street corner ever since ??

    People just make up crap and expect others to debate about it. If the opposition were asking proper questions like 'where is the option for a stimulus package' etc he might join them.

    He is right not to give a voice to people acting in their own best interest and not in the countries!

    AND....he is terrible at debates! :)


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  • #12
    PCPhoto
    Registered Users Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    I firmly believe that Enda is afraid of damaging any chance the yes camp have - no doubt that Sinn Fein have an ace up their sleeve and would use it at any televised debate, Kenny may or may not know what they have up their sleeve but either way avoiding the opportunity to ruin the chances.

    its a simple tactic to avoid any debate and hope to get the result instead of going out and getting egg on your face because of something silly that you couldn't deal with ?

    given other recent "gaffs" by member of the yes campaign there are a lot of questions which I would like answered....the most important one :

    Will Enda Kenny resign as Taoiseach if he fails to pass the treaty ?

    I do think that before the next set of elections ALL politicians should be forced to sign a declaration that they will resign without any financial remuneration if they cannot achieve on their election promises


  • #13
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What benefit will a debate bring? Is it so that many can decide which way to vote based on the nicest shirt and tie?


  • #14
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    kbannon wrote: »
    What benefit will a debate bring? Is it so that many can decide which way to vote based on the nicest shirt and tie?


    No who is telling the truth or waiting to get the great Euro gig in the future.


  • #15
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Hootanany wrote: »
    No who is telling the truth...
    A debate will decide this, how?
    ...or waiting to get the great Euro gig in the future.
    What does that even mean?


  • #16
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    kbannon wrote: »
    What benefit will a debate bring? Is it so that many can decide which way to vote based on the nicest shirt and tie?

    For a mod your attitude is sick. While you have the right to an opinion, you are certainly milking that right.


  • #17
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    i wouldnt have imagined enda kenny coming out the best of that vincent browne interview he would have got a right grilling..


  • #18
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    meglome wrote: »
    I agree entirely with what Patser and oscarBravo have said.

    Also I have no idea where this idea come from that Edna Kenny has to debate it in the first place. One of the main roles of a manager is to delegate. It's really bizarre to me that the no camp appoint him leader of the Yes campaign and then demand he debate it. Anything else they feel it's their right to decide?



    Enda isn't a manager, he's our Taoiseach.
    He should have debated Gerry Adams with Ursula Halligan in the chair. Enda would have got on fine against Adams, IMO.


  • #19
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Wider Road wrote: »
    Enda isn't a manager, he's our Taoiseach.
    He should have debated Gerry Adams with Ursula Halligan in the chair. Enda would have got on fine against Adams, IMO.

    If he isn't a manager is it his job to do it all himself?

    I have no doubt that Enda Kenny would be able for Gerry Adams but quite honestly I cannot see how anything good could come from the debate.


  • #20
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,701 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    shootermacg wrote: »
    For a mod your attitude is sick. While you have the right to an opinion, you are certainly milking that right.
    I'm not a mod in this forum but nonetheless I fail to see how my attitude is sick, especially because debates tend to end up as who came accross best as opposed to who made the best points. Also, attire is discussed in the media following these charades.
    Give my point a decent rebuttal then. Prove me wrong.


  • #21
    Wider Road
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Wider Road


    meglome wrote: »
    Wider Road wrote: »
    Enda isn't a manager, he's our Taoiseach.
    He should have debated Gerry Adams with Ursula Halligan in the chair. Enda would have got on fine against Adams, IMO.

    If he isn't a manager is it his job to do it all himself?

    I have no doubt that Enda Kenny would be able for Gerry Adams but quite honestly I cannot see how anything good could come from the debate.


    I love your line and I quote "If he isn't a manager is it his job to do it all himself". Enda isn't a Manager, he's our Taoiseach, the LEADER of our country. It's not his job to do it all himself, as you say. It's his job to LEAD by example and not to manage. Don't forget that he has refused Vincent Browne and Ursula Halligan to a Live Debate. No Leadership there, IMO. Enda chose for some strange reason to run away.


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  • #22
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Wider Road wrote: »
    I love your line and I quote "If he isn't a manager is it his job to do it all himself". Enda isn't a Manager, he's our Taoiseach, the LEADER of our country. It's not his job to do it all himself, as you say. It's his job to LEAD by example and not to manage. Don't forget that he has refused Vincent Browne and Ursula Halligan to a Live Debate. No Leadership there, IMO. Enda chose for some strange reason to run away.

    He's travelled up and down the country, had eggs thrown at him, been spat at, and generally abused by some proponents of the No campaign over the past few weeks. I fail to see how that constitutes "running away". Debates mean very little. They are usually just shallow affairs, without any real substance, dealing with peripheral issues, and decided not on the content but on the performance. Kenny isn't particularly good at that side of politics, and thus doesn't wish to risk a potentially damagaing sideshow- and I can't really say I blame him.

    A debate would add precious little to the understanding of the Treaty, and as I mentioned in another thread, if you need a leader's debate to make up your mind on an issue for which there is an incredible amount of information already available, then you probably shouldn'e be voting in the first place.


  • #23
    Cracker_Jack
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭Cracker_Jack


    There is little doubt that Kenny is a tin-eared narcissist.

    He doesn't seem too realize that he was elected only because "it was their way or Frankfurt's way", not because of any apparent experience or skills he may have possessed. His timing was excellent, following the animosities directed against Brian Lenihan and the desire for a fresh start. His handlers also ran a very manipulated campaign with the media and public, in their enthusiasm for a new government, willing to overlook the obvious flaws.

    Enda Kenny is a terrible taoiseach, and is bad to the point where it's not clear how he could be worse. History will record him as both a milestone and a millstone, and we can only hope he can not do too much further damage before his four years are up.


  • #24
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Cracker_Jack wrote: »
    He doesn't seem too realize that he was elected only because "it was their way or Frankfurt's way"

    Theres also the fact that he was the leader of the party who got the most votes. People knew when they were voting for Fine Gael that Enda would be Taoiseach and still voted for them, so you can really argue with that. Who would you have picked in the last GE instead?


    OT, Im not too fussed that he isnt debating. There has been plenty of debate around the treaty and the Government has been well represented, so I dont see the point in trotting Enda out for show when he has a cabinet there that can do just as good, or if not better. If the reason he isnt is that he isnt good at debating, so what?


  • #25
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Cracker_Jack wrote: »
    He doesn't seem too realize that he was elected only because "it was their way or Frankfurt's way"
    Odd, I thought he was elected Taoiseach because he was the leader of the party who got the largest majority in the last election. Now you're telling me that he was appointed by the Germans? Why wasn't I informed? Get an International oversight committee in here, stat!
    Enda Kenny is a terrible taoiseach, and is bad to the point where it's not clear how he could be worse.
    You might clear up for me how he has been a "terrible taoiseach"? Sure he's a bit of a wet rag and a little too parochial in many respects, but he has yet to be dragged up in front of a tribunal for dodgy dealings, be arrested for smuggling arms for the IRA, or do a national radio interview while hammered.

    As a Taoiseach he's not an outstanding statesman, but he's a hard worker in is defence. Yet another great stroke by the FF chancers was to convince people that they guys we voted in less than two years ago are somehow to blame for everything.


  • #26
    dabestman1
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭dabestman1


    Wider Road wrote: »
    Enda isn't a manager, he's our Taoiseach.
    He should have debated Gerry Adams with Ursula Halligan in the chair. Enda would have got on fine against Adams, IMO.
    Adams would trounce kenny in any debate. FACT


  • #27
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    dabestman1 wrote: »
    Adams would trounce kenny in any debate. FACT

    I believe that's very true. Adams would trounce Kenny in any debate, on any topic, from any side.

    That should tell you all you need to know about the worth of debates.


  • #28
    Cracker_Jack
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭Cracker_Jack


    The yes campaign have lost their credibility. Two days before the referendum, the leader is nowhere in sight. When someone is leader (i.e. Kenny), they either take responsibility or else come clean.


  • #29
    bpb101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭bpb101


    simple op ,
    Last debate with Kenny


  • #30
    Mance Rayder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Mance Rayder


    There is absolutely no need to debate the treaty. The treaty is available in full to be read by anyone. People should vote based on the content of the treaty NOT on the performance of campaigners in a debate. If any person does not understand the treaty then that person should abstain from voting.


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  • #31
    Cracker_Jack
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15 ✭Cracker_Jack


    Where are all these Kenny lovers coming from?


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