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What to do during religion....

  • 02-08-2012 12:55pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12


    Would love some suggestions from anyone in a similar situation.

    My son is starting Primary school in September and we have taken the decision to remove him from religion class as we are atheists.

    The school are very amenable to this, but as he is the first student in this very small rural school to ever opt out of religion class, they are at a loss as what to do with him during the class.
    I understand that because it was my choice to exclude him I should prepare something for him to do while religion is being taught to the others but I don't know what to do, should I buy some books that he can rotate on different days so he doesn't get bored?... Any parents in a similar position I would love to hear what you did.... I have considered 'where's wally' and there is a good Usbourne book called 'a thousand searches' which is educational, but could be a bit advanced for him....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    Would love some suggestions from anyone in a similar situation.

    My son is starting Primary school in September and we have taken the decision to remove him from religion class as we are atheists.

    The school are very amenable to this, but as he is the first student in this very small rural school to ever opt out of religion class, they are at a loss as what to do with him during the class.
    I understand that because it was my choice to exclude him I should prepare something for him to do while religion is being taught to the others but I don't know what to do, should I buy some books that he can rotate on different days so he doesn't get bored?... Any parents in a similar position I would love to hear what you did.... I have considered 'where's wally' and there is a good Usbourne book called 'a thousand searches' which is educational, but could be a bit advanced for him....

    Not sure, but I am interested in replies you get because I am in a similar position!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 AlifromBally


    Someone has suggested a sticker book that he could do, but it could get expensive, also, I'm sure the teacher wouldn't appreciate the inevitable attention a sticker book would draw from his class mates.. I think a coloring book will only last for so long also...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    Someone has suggested a sticker book that he could do, but it could get expensive, also, I'm sure the teacher wouldn't appreciate the inevitable attention a sticker book would draw from his class mates.. I think a coloring book will only last for so long also...

    Does your school have a library? I haven't decided yet if my kid will be participating in religion, but he's older so will be likely making the choice himself. If he does not participate, I will be supplying him some kind of 'self-development' materials, like educational books about the world, humanity etc.
    What about getting an exercise book, something teacher recommended? A sticker book may be seen as a 'treat' for not participating in religion... IMO. However, junior infants are quite young, and you probably don't want to bombard your child with stuff, on top of starting school!


  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭lily09


    Rasmus wrote: »
    Someone has suggested a sticker book that he could do, but it could get expensive, also, I'm sure the teacher wouldn't appreciate the inevitable attention a sticker book would draw from his class mates.. I think a coloring book will only last for so long also...

    As a teacher I would have no problem with any child in juniors using a sticker/colouring book while the others were doing religion. After all the religion program is not work heavy so they should get some light relief.I have one little boy in third who has opted out and with the parents we chose some topics he was interested in and he did little projects in class( parents helped at home) I know that's no good for you now but just talk to the teacher, they will have some ideas.
    Just to say ( on an anonymous forum) I have never taught 2 1/2 hours religion a week, usually bout 45 mins once a week. Far too much to cover in curriculum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 AlifromBally


    Thanks for that Lilly09!... Should I prepare something for everyday?... Or should I just wait to see how things pan out and how the routine goes... I just feel like a colouring book is a bit of a cop out on my part...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭lily09


    Thanks for that Lilly09!... Should I prepare something for everyday?... Or should I just wait to see how things pan out and how the routine goes... I just feel like a colouring book is a bit of a cop out on my part...

    No need to to prepare something every day, without being smart that's teachers job. Have taught infants for years and many don't realise the importance to colouring, it develops fine motor skills and is a precursor to handwriting. As time goes on you can mix it up a bit, word searches with cvc words ( consanant v owe consonant words like cat big) read the sentence/word and draw. you could put these in a cool folder your child has picked out so they take out their special folder when the class are doingbreligion.teacher will help with these.
    Also try
    Www.starfall.com
    Www.activity village.com. for nice colouring.
    Hope that helps, sorry for the spellings my tablet has a mind of its own.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 AlifromBally


    You're a star.. Thanks a million..


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    As it is in infants he will be, the work he can do independently is somewhat limited.The folder is a good idea, it will serve as a place for him to keep this work and look back over with pride, as he progresses.

    Do you know what phonics scheme they use (e.g Jolly Phonics?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 mrsnewbie


    hi, I wouldn't imagine you would have to give him anything, the teacher is bound to prepare for your child. It is very kind of you to do that though and the teacher would be very grateful.

    A lot of the religion at this age would be based on friendships, family etc. so if you downloaded some colouring/activities of a non religious nature that would be lovely and you could even make a little scrapbook for him..photo's of friends/family, pets, jobs he might do, being kind, rights and responsibilities, recycling etc. Theme based work would also be nice- matching flashcards (Autumn, my body). So much is freely available on the web now.

    Best of luck to your little man for September, a special year!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    Since it's instead of religion class would you consider something got to do with evolution or something? I'm sure there are some books designed to explain evolution to kids. Ask him to read a certain amount of pages and ask him about it when he gets home to make sure he reads them. That's what I'd do anyway!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭aisher


    You might want to consider the annual school class play - my kids did secular plays for Junior/Senior Infants but in first class they did the Nativity. If your child attends a school with a religious ethos you will find that its not only during Religion class that religion is mentioned. My kids go to the Parish Catholic school so they have a prayer first thing in the morning and again at the end of day. Also they learned a lot of Christmas carols with a Christian theme-You may need to sit down and consider how far you want to exclude your child from activities the rest of the kids are doing. Cant be easy for you - is there any option to send your child to an alternative school that does not have a religious ethos?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Some nice workbook type books in Aldi at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    aisher wrote: »
    If your child attends a school with a religious ethos you will find that its not only during Religion class that religion is mentioned.

    That's very true. I nearly choked when my kids brought home their history book at the end of Senior Infants year and I read through it. There was a chapter in it about the origin of Christmas and specifically Jesus being the son of god. In a $%*%ing History book! And this was in an Educate Together school. Unfortunately the whole curriculum in Ireland is christian orientated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 AlifromBally


    It is a problem.. but my big issue is with the sacraments, luckily its only 2 in the whole 8 eight years, I think its impossible to avoid the prayers and the plays portion of religion, but I would love if the teacher could explain to the other kids why my son doesn't partake and that everyone has different beliefs... I think it would make him less of a pariah, but at the same time, as wrong as it is I have to accept that we are forced to put him in a Catholic school and there has to be some compromise on everyones part....


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Ali, he's unlikely to be a "pariah" in fairness .Most schools have children who don't take part in sacraments these days.
    Teacher explaining to other kids why he doesn't take part is only going to make him feel different. When the time comes, make sure he knows why himself and once he is secure in himself, he will be able to explain it to the others kids, if he feels the need.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    my children used to do their homework, but very often listened in on the religion class. They were interested and it didn't do them any harm. Don't fuss too much, a bit of acceptance and tolerance goes a long way. My son was adamant that it was all like a fairy tale and my daughter, aged 12, would go to mass with her friends, mainly to hang out. I did have to explain that going to communion wasn't such a good idea and when she learned that she would have to be baptized etc if she wanted to become a catholic, she soon dropped it. Both are in their 20's and atheists. I never made an issue of the whole thing and didn't criticize religion, just explained that I didn't believe or have faith. Children understand more than you realize. Amd both of them still love hymns and will belt them out.....:eek:


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    I once taught a class (a good few years back, when the religious examiners actually examined)and I had two children who were not Catholic.

    On the day, the two lads ( both highly intelligent) were bouncing out of the seats to give the answers. I remember after saying so to them and they,fair play to them,knew I was doing my dip, presumed the inspector was a dept inspector and they told me they answered for my sake, as they didn't believe any of it, but didn't want the inspector to think I was useless!!:D

    I met one of them in the last few years ahd we both laughed again at the good of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Kimberlie


    I feel sorry for the Child, as you are choosing his life for him. I think you should let him / her make up their own mind. They will want to know why they are so different from everyone else.. Reason i am saying this is it happened to my cousin, she wanted the child excluded and he was the only child in the class not making his Communion and he cried and cried that day because of his parents belief. Let him / her be part of it and by the time the Confirmation comes around they will then let u know if they want to or not..


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭yellowlabrador


    Kimberlie wrote: »
    I feel sorry for the Child, as you are choosing his life for him. I think you should let him / her make up their own mind. They will want to know why they are so different from everyone else.. Reason i am saying this is it happened to my cousin, she wanted the child excluded and he was the only child in the class not making his Communion and he cried and cried that day because of his parents belief. Let him / her be part of it and by the time the Confirmation comes around they will then let u know if they want to or not..

    I don't agree with you on this one. He cried because he thought he was missing out. I can give you the other side of the coin. I was made to do my first communion at age 6 nearly 50 years ago. My parents weren't religious but I went to a catholic school abroad. I absolutely hated it. I was convinced I would be found out as a fraud, a bit like having the back of your frock stuck in your knickers. I pleaded and pleaded not to have to, my mother said 'make the most of it, it's the only day of your life that is just about you.....next time you're in white it will be with your husband' I also was made to be confirmed, I still hated it and I remember spoiling an expensive hairdo and great panic with rollers and hairdryers. Needless to say I was a great disappointment, refusing a church wedding and a white dress.
    The way forward is to do something special as a family instead, it can be a day out or a party. If there is no religion in the home, and the child doesn't go to church, it's a travesty to make them do their communion. I have found that parents and children who chose not to participate get put under a lot of pressure by the rest of the family who see this as tradition.
    More and more children will opt out as time moves on and the church should be honest enough to encourage change. For a start, get rid of the expensive clothes .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12 AlifromBally


    Kimberlie wrote: »
    I feel sorry for the Child, as you are choosing his life for him. I think you should let him / her make up their own mind. They will want to know why they are so different from everyone else.. Reason i am saying this is it happened to my cousin, she wanted the child excluded and he was the only child in the class not making his Communion and he cried and cried that day because of his parents belief. Let him / her be part of it and by the time the Confirmation comes around they will then let u know if they want to or not..


    Without getting in to an argument about religious ethics.. I am not raising my child to be a sheep.. I want to him to grow up and not be afriad to do differently and think differently.... I think this country would be a better place if children were taught to embrace different ideas and opinions, I make no apology what so ever for my choice...
    Also in terms of 'choosing' for my child, those par taking in religion have also had their choice made for them by their parents..


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Mod hat: Op wants to know what the child could do at R.E time, it's not a debate on why/what. Stick to the topic please. /Mod hat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    We had a girl in my class in primary school all the way up that did not do religion with us. This was a small catholic primary school in a small village, only 7 in my class all the way through, probably 50 or so in the school.

    Thinking back on it now, none of us even thought anything of it, never crossed our minds to even question it. This was 22 years ago. So nowadays I would imagine it would be even less of a big deal. Kids are kids they get on with it, its only a deal for them when its made into one.

    Going back to someone's comment earlier, is it actually the teachers job to prepare work for a child who does not participate in the class? I would think not but I am a secondary teacher so was wondering what is the story in primary?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 sunnymoon


    The teacher is not bound to prepare work for religion, for a child who chooses not to participate, most teachers will help out with work but this is out of the goodness of their hearts and not because they have to. Technically the teacher could give no work and would be perfectly correct but generally this doesn't happen. The parents can remove a child from the class if they so wish for the half an hour of religion instruction however this isn't very practical with most parents working nowadays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭gabsdot40


    JI curriculum is based a lot on play. Your son can probably just play quietly with some toys while religion is going on. Best not to make a big deal out of it and there is no need for the teacher to say anything about it to the other children.
    I'm not Catholic and I opted out of Religion in secondary school. I would just sit in the classroom and do my homework but often I got involved in the discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Awesome-O


    As a teacher who though infants for the past few years I would say that religion is not so much about God as it is about being a good person, songs, games etc I have never had children of many different religions and nationalities and neve had anyone opt out of religion once it was explained to them what their child whould be doing. Maybe have a discussion with the teacher what exactly will be taught in religion in infants and you will want to include your child.
    Around Christmas and Easter is the time that doe focus on God and Jesus and if you don't celebrate these festivals maybe ask for your child to be excluded from this. As somebody else has already said, colouring is greatly underestimated and will be a great benifit to developing fine-motor skills, so maybe a colouring book if the teacher is not providing pictures for your child.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Awesome-O wrote: »
    As a teacher who though infants for the past few years I would say that religion is not so much about God as it is about being a good person, songs, games etc

    That's all very nice, but in a way that's actually even more insidious. The local primary principal said the same to me in response to a query, the 'Ah sure its not indoctrination, its about being friends and nice to people', but God is still mentioned and invariably its a Catholic God.

    Also, there's a huge focus in art, music and other lessons on prep for communion and confirmation. Religion isn't as benign as some people would like to make out. If the focus of being nice and kind to people came with an Islamic or Jewish or Buddist backdrop, I bet a lot of people would have a problem with it, but because its a Christian message, there's not much wrong with it, seems to be attitude.


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Awesome-O


    lazygal wrote: »
    That's all very nice, but in a way that's actually even more insidious. The local primary principal said the same to me in response to a query, the 'Ah sure its not indoctrination, its about being friends and nice to people', but God is still mentioned and invariably its a Catholic God.

    Also, there's a huge focus in art, music and other lessons on prep for communion and confirmation. Religion isn't as benign as some people would like to make out. If the focus of being nice and kind to people came with an Islamic or Jewish or Buddist backdrop, I bet a lot of people would have a problem with it, but because its a Christian message, there's not much wrong with it, seems to be attitude.


    Much apologises lazygal, I was merely trying to be helpful to the OP in regard to understanding what takes place during religion time, as cleary your local primary school principal was trying to help your understanding, I did not write the curriculum.
    I have had children with an Islamic, Jewish and Buddist backdrop and no compaints to date (the only problem encountered was from a family of Jehovah Witnesses who insisted their 5 year old child stand in a corner facing the wall during religion time,very confusing for the child not allowed to join in with the singing, games and colouring, seemed like more of a punishment for the parents choices), they trust that the teacher has been properly trained in what to include every child and has the common sense as what areas to exclude certain children from.
    As it is a legal requirement for every school to teacher 30 minutes of religion a day, even if you send your child to an educate together school they will be learning about "being friends and nice to people" and various Gods will be mentioned, may I suggest home schooling....

    I would like to stress I am not trying to promote religion in school, just explain it and help confused parents with children entering school for the first time.


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