Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Spinning for Brown Trout on Lough Corrib

Options
2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 45 finlayspub1


    guys i did 75 days on sheelin and corrib and ennell this year .
    does no one think that pollution is a huge factor on fishing and the number of trout showing .
    We are very naive if we think that pollution is still not flowing in to all these lakes , and in return the trout feed on the masses of pupae , bloodworm , nymphs, etc that thrive in polluted waters , why would you come up for a slice of bread on top when you have steak on the bottom .
    Just because there are no trout showing does not mean they are not there .
    A lot of anglers will turn up on a lake and give it a few hours and if nothing shows , they presume that there are no fish feeding or there are no fish in it , i had 5 fish on the 4th august on ennell (miracle) during the day when no fish showed (all returned), last week on sheelin i had 4 fish over 3 days from 3lb 9ozs to 5lbs 4ozs when nothing showed bar a few stockies .
    I agree with ironbluedun , we need to go lighter on our leaders and copolymers and iv gone down to 2lb BS this year , caught and released 11 fish on ennell during the peter on ennell this year , , saw massive rises of fish on corrib to caenis between 5 am and 7 am during summer , and massive rise of fish in a flat calm to shiny blacks in castletown on corrib , any attempt to fish them would have put them down , if you want to catch fish change your tactics and put in the hours , they are there , but you have to figure it out :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 anglingcharts


    I'm still seeing hundreds, if not thousands of fish every time I do a survey, but this year I've barely seen a rise on the surface at all. This sonar image is pretty typical (taken a couple of months back) of shallow bays all around the Corrib.http://www.anglingcharts.com/images/588_ballycurrin_fish3.jpg

    I often stop and chuck a spinner in for the craic, barely a nudge this year - but they are obviously eating something !

    Trevor


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 finlayspub1


    well done anglingcharts , knew i wasnt seeing things;), ballycurrin bay i see , ballynalty held lot ofc fish this year as did castletown as i mentioned earlier .


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 anglingcharts


    I'm also seeing plenty of very large shoals in deep water - I'm assuming these to be coarse fish by the shape and behaviour of the shoal. Theres some sidescan imagery on the website of this years fish - and some regular colourful sonar stuff as well.
    It may be the case that fishing will get more technical - look at some of the USA sites, although they have possibly gone a little OTT - and C & R will have to be the norm if we go that route. I see long discussions about the position of the thermocline etc - rather takes the fun out of it. Mind you - if you want to know where it is on Corrib at the moment I can probably tell you .....


    Trevor


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 finlayspub1


    lot of roach around ill agree with u there trevor ,,


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Caribs


    Water quality can't be helping, just take Oughterard for example, effectively raw sewage being pumped into the lake from the lower reaches of the Owenriff combined with the run off from the forestry is bound to change the ecosystem and the feeding habits.

    I caught quite a few small trout this year (all returned) which hopefully bodes well for the future but also fished in plenty of competitions where the overall catch was low, how much of that was down to the conditions on the day and for me being a crap enthusiastic angler I can't say but saw plenty of trout and salmon jumping over the season which was great.

    ...and at risk of being accused of being a muck savage the introduction and preponderance of pike in the Owenriff lake system which for the Oughterard part of the lake is a hugely important spawning area can't be helping. The pike have to feed on something and young trout must be a great source of protein.


  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭fisherking


    I was speaking only about corrib.
    It is merely an opinion based on what i have seen over many years with my own eyes
    At no point did i say all trollers.

    I see trollers taking many fish on corrib and i know they sell their catch.

    Paparazzo wrote: »
    fisherking wrote: »
    The problem with trollers on corrib is that the vast majority if them kill and sell their catch
    In my opinion trolling should be called "boating" instead of fishing
    Spinning from the shore is fine i think..... not for me but each to their own....

    Rubbish. First of all spinning from a boat isn't trolling. Spinning from a boat is similar to fly fishing. Cast out your lure from a floating boat and retrieve it.
    The vast majority of trollers kill and sell their catch?? Are you having a laugh?


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    yeah agree fisherking, but this isn't a spinning v fly fishing debate.. good and bad on both sides. just saw some of papparazzis posts is that guy for real...............lol


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    yeah agree fisherking, but this isn't a spinning v fly fishing debate.. good and bad on both sides. just saw some of papparazzis posts is that guy for real...............lol

    Says the guy who thinks spinning should be banned (but spins anyway), thinks the IFI are putting out false reports, and who thinks the trout population is "crashing hard" :rolleyes:
    Do me a favour....


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    yeah agree fisherking, but this isn't a spinning v fly fishing debate.. good and bad on both sides. just saw some of papparazzis posts is that guy for real...............lol

    Says the guy who thinks spinning should be banned (but spins anyway), thinks the IFI are putting out false reports, and who thinks the trout population is "crashing hard" :rolleyes:
    Do me a favour....



    Ha ha lol u are paranoid, hilarious stuff


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭jkchambers


    IFI undertook a full stock assessment of Corrib over the first couple of weeks of March. It was identical to the one undertaken in 1996. Catch numbers have not yet been officially released yet.
    On behalf of the Irish Federation of Pike Angling clubs another committee member and myself attended the lifting of nets one day at Cornamona. We were taken out by IFI staff and were shown everything. Four 220 metre nets were lifted. Each net contains sections of different mesh sizes in order to try to catch fish of all sizes. In this mile or so of nets only 1 trout (about 5 lbs) and 1 Pike (around 4 lbs) were caught. Other fish inclubed around 40 large roach bream hybrids, a few bream, maybe 40 roach and around 30 perch. I would have thought that a single trout and a single pike was a very poor catch for 4 nets set at different locations. Staff did tell me that trout catches were very poor in some areas while very good in others. Over 200 sites around the lake were netted.
    Reference was made to the 1996 stock assessment report. In that trout stocks were actually good as were the pike stocks and this after a decade or so of no gillnetting of pike.
    Reference was also made to the Owenriff system as being a major spawning source for the Corrib. A genetics study presented by IFI`s Dr Martin O Grady indicated 5.7% of Corrib trout stocks come from the system.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    The biggest loss is to flyfishers. Here are some of the factors that have been at work in my opinion:

    The roach are now established. The larger trout can eat roach which are compact and nutritious, and more satisfying than a tiny fly. A 5lb brown taking one 5 ounce roach every second evening at dusk does not help fly fishers. Anyone out there using using 8" lures for trout?

    Zebra mussels significantly reduce tiny organisms that both trout and coarse fish need to survive and grow, so after zebras are established, the mortality of all young (year 0 class) fish increases, and the numbers of adult fish eventually reduces. They grow bigger due to there being fewer of them, so zebras function as a reducer of other fish numbers, as a result of competition for food at the young fish stage.
    Some coarse fish consume zebras, and these may thrive, but in fewer numbers. Tench and bream caught are for example bigger in recent years. However a link to zebras is not proven as far as I know, also climate warming will also contribute to coarse fish (warm water species) growth. Warm water is a bad effect on cold water species, like trout, putting them deep in refuge from over hot temperatures.
    Therefore climate change is a factor that messes up traditional surface fishing techniques for trout. The cool of the night they come up, but drifting with wet flies is not the best at that hour.

    You could say about the changes just mentioned, that Corrib and Mask have taken a slight shift in the direction of Ree or Derravaragh; And Ree, Derravaragh, Derg, Ennell and Sheelin have taken a slight shift towards being coarse fishing lakes ..... so much so that Derravaragh is pretty much now a coarse lake. Trout are now fewer, bigger, more fish eating in their habits, and harder to locate than they used to be. This change is particularly noticeable on Lough Conn.

    Then you look at the number of anglers nowadays compared with 30 years ago. They don't all return their catch .....

    Finally, in the catchment of many lakes, the OPW have dredged the gravel out of the spawning streams in "land reclamation" programmes, which were actually political vote getting projects.
    These projects have been ongoing for 50 years now. You can dig up a lot of river bottom in 50 years with a Hymac.
    They have a major effect on all fish stocks, but especially game fish which need fast water and gravel, both are which removed in OPW widening and deepening operations.

    Water quality has gotten worse over 30 years, and may be getting better now. It helped destroy many waters, but is probably not worsening the situation any more. But midge species have been favoured by enrichment for a long time, which are easily eaten under the surface, and harder for fish to catch on the surface. Midge eating trout taking suspended midge pupae in a layer underwater require different fly fishing presentations, which works against the traditional over the front of a drifting boat lough style. Adaptable anglers do well with suitable techniques.

    Next we get to genetic quality. What do you think happens when you kill the healthiest and fastest growing trout within a population for 50 years? At the same time returning the weak small ones to reproduce and make the next generation ...... year after year culling the strong and releasing the weak ...... you end up with dwarves, that's what!
    We now need catch and release for decades, with both big trout and pike culling the weaker trout to make the genetics of the stocks good again. But it's hard to allow predation when we already know that total numbers are down so much. So the simultaneous rehabilitation of streams, and acceptable predation levels are all we can stand. Sorting this out will take many decades.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭jkchambers


    It is hard to quantify the impact of zebras. When they got into Ree the pike fishing was poor with some competitions having to be re-run due to no catches and trout fishing was ok. Now zebras have been in Ree a good few years and I hear that trout fishing is great and pike fishing good.
    Zebras have been in Sheelin a few years now and this was blamed for the collapse of roach stocks and then the consequent collapse in pike stocks. The annual IFI stock assessment survey of Sheelin is just over. I am reliably informed that pike stocks are still low, trout stocks much the same as last year but roach are back in big numbers. How can that be if zebras are eating all the plankton that juvenile roach need to survive. It appears that in Russia roach and zebras survive well together.
    Getting back to Corrib the ferox trout are now feeding pretty exclusively on roach. Well thats what IFI examination of stomach contents is showing. At a meeting of anglers in Galway in February to discuss the Corrib survey one angler suggested that instead of ban on the taking of trout under 14 ins(I think that was the measure) there should be a reversal to a ban on the taking of trout over that length.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    jkchambers wrote: »
    .... At a meeting of anglers in Galway in February to discuss the Corrib survey one angler suggested that instead of ban on the taking of trout under 14 ins(I think that was the measure) there should be a reversal to a ban on the taking of trout over that length.

    This would be the correct thing to do in my opinion, to slowly allow the genetic stock to be restored to longer lifespan-larger trout.
    They have evolved to deal with death at a young age from angling harvest, so we now have fast growing short lifespan trout, (ferox are an exception as they live longer than ordinary trout).

    The natural state would be for trout that increase size a little slower, and also live a lot longer, and get to larger sizes in their life. But that depends on a reduced mortality rate. As long as we have a great number of anglers, this means catch and release.
    Encouraging anglers to kill and remove smaller trout (or any other species of fish) does not automaticaly mean removing the weaker genes. This is because the anglers would be focused on small young trout, not small older trout.
    But predation and disease are going to do their job over time, if we let them do it.

    In Irish lakes, if zebras reduce small fish numbers, it would be relatively easy to cull perch in their spawning time by dropping bushes in the water, on which some eprch spawn, and then removing the bushes with the spaw attached, thus reducing the amount of perch spawn success, and their numbers before they start to eat all around them. Not intending to eliminate them, but to reduce their biomass(numbers) a certain % amount. This reduced predation on small fish would balance against small fish death due to shortage of plankton from zebra infestation. I'm sure research would produce some guideline on effect of fry predators (perch) vs fry food competitors(zebras) and their relative effect on fry survival.

    Is perch spawn reduction necessary on fertile loughs in the first place? Probably not.
    But in the less fertile lakes I believe a programme of % perch reduction might benefit all other fish numbers, bream, tench, rudd, including bigger perch! Big fish numbers are a function of the strength of the year class from when they were born. More baby bream this year = more 10lb bream in 12 years from now. The question is: are the adults too many in numbers and stunted, or too few and enormous? Does the lough have too many fish and it needs more predators, or too few fish and need some sort of a predator reduction (perch spawn removal)?
    When we look at this aspect of a lough biosystem, we find ourselves talking about maintaining a balance in quantity of good spawning area for each species, which is definitely the way forward in the future.
    If we arrange for adequate spawning area for each species of fish, the fish will to a large extent look after themselves for the rest of their life.
    The trout probably suffered most due to dredging operations down the years and need much help in this regard.
    The fishery biologists are paying great attention to this approach now as a result of research findings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭jkchambers


    In the 1996 Corrib stock assessment both trout and pike stocks were good. There had been no pike removal for around 10 years. From 1996 on there has been extensive gillnetting and electrofishing to remove pike. There has also been a lot of instream enhancement work. In view of this you would expect trout stocks to increase.
    Two waterframework directive stock assessment surveys have been carried out since that with one in 2008 and the other 2011.
    These 2 wfd surveys can be directly compared to each other but not with the 1996 survey as it was much more extensive and nets were somewhat different. The 2 wfd directive surveys used the same nets at the same sites at the same time of year. In numbers caught trout numbers were down by 33% and pike numbers were also down by 33%. The drop in pike numbers can be explained by the "predator control" programme but why are trout numbers down especially with the instream work and pike numbers down.
    I hope to soon have catch numbers from the 2012 stock assessment which will be directly comparable to the 1996 assessment as nets, site locations and time of year are the same. From initial figures I got during the survey I expect drops from the 1996 figures to be around 60% for pike and 40% for trout. I will add that the figures I received were before the stock assessment was completed and were not from, what should I say, official sources.
    No char were caught in the current survey so it is pretty sure that there are no longer any in Corrib. Various coarse species numbers seem to be strong, pike are well down which we can attribute to the "predator control" operations. Trout numbers do appear to be also well down and the reason for that is the big question. I attended the Corrib stock assessment info meeting in February where around 60 were in attendance. I am pretty sure that I was the only pike angler there. Lots of trout anglers spoke about the lack of trout but not a single one of them pointed a finger or even mentioned pike as a problem.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 3,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭coolwings


    When we say "predators" people assume we are talking about pike.
    But not necessarily. Perch are a predator and an insectivore, as is trout.
    So perch both compete with young trout for food items, and also eat baby trout.
    Perch made a cycliclical high in numbers over the past decade, and seem to outnumber the trout by 50:1.
    It will be interesting to see what changes occur (in the other species) when perch eventually swing back into a cyclical decline.

    And then there is the roach, introduced into those lakes at or about the same time trout began their one way decline ...... roach are likely what pushed arctic char over the edge in Corrib.

    If trout anglers were in the habit of recording numbers of all species caught, over the seasons, (instead of just trout numbers caught) the decade long struggle between different species for resources would be very clear.
    But since they don't keep such detailed logs the fishery surveys are all we have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭jkchambers


    coolwings wrote: »
    When we say "predators" people assume we are talking about pike.
    But not necessarily. Perch are a predator and an insectivore, as is trout.
    So perch both compete with young trout for food items, and also eat baby trout.
    Perch made a cycliclical high in numbers over the past decade, and seem to outnumber the trout by 50:1.
    It will be interesting to see what changes occur (in the other species) when perch eventually swing back into a cyclical decline.

    And then there is the roach, introduced into those lakes at or about the same time trout began their one way decline ...... roach are likely what pushed arctic char over the edge in Corrib.

    If trout anglers were in the habit of recording numbers of all species caught, over the seasons, (instead of just trout numbers caught) the decade long struggle between different species for resources would be very clear.
    But since they don't keep such detailed logs the fishery surveys are all we have.
    In the past when people talked about "predator control" on the Western Lakes they were talking about pike control. Yes, perch will feed on juvenile trout. Perch arent in anything like a 50:1 majority on Corrib. In the waterframework directive survey last summer the catches were 27trout to 223 perch which works out at just over 8:1. Looking at the prelim figures I managed to get for last months survey the ratio would have been a bit lower. They would still have had an impact but perch have been present in good numbers in Corrib for a long time.
    It is sad to see the char gone from Corrib. While the ferox trout now feed pretty well exclusively on roach when char were present they were the much preferred food.
    http://www.wfdfish.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Corrib_prel_report_2011.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 anglingcharts


    I was doing a bathymetric and sidescan survey north of Lee Island and Sedge island yesterday, beautiful, almost mirror calm morning. Saw a lot of mayfly hatching off, what was missing was trout to eat them - only saw two rises to them all morning. Hope they get an appetite before the "mayfly festival" in Oughterard. Saw plenty of coarse fish up there - mainly big bream.

    anglingcharts


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    was really disappointed by new stock survey, native brown trout are in trouble. roach have stabilised but perch seem to be causing huge problems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭gary29428


    Yeah, and what do the fisheries do, go out and kill another couple of hundred pike. They extensively netted an area of the lake earlier this year that is practically closed off and never visited by trout anglers. It is very peaty water and "HAD" a good head of pike. I'm convinced they only went in there to juice up the numbers they were killing as part of there predator control because in all the time I've spent in there over the years I've seen a trout rise. Perch numbers are up from pracically nothing in 1996 to over 600 this time around....not good.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭stylie


    Perch have yo yo populations, they could crash to nothing in a year or two. Still their numbers could be reduced but all the species competing with young trout should be netted, small pike, perch, bream, roach all compete with small trout and their numbers should be held in check. Maybe bring in commercial Perch netting ? People on the continent love them. I would like to see them reduce small pike number, everything under 2lb could do with thinning out, there are parts of the lake where you can catch half a dozen pound plus pike with out moving the boat. And I hate to think of the damage the bream are doing to the mayfly and olive grounds


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    I stated earlier in this thread, long before survey, that trout population was in freefall on Corrib. some posters on here went loo lah over my comments. It was obvious for all to see.The situation is only getting worse. Why don,t we now go
    1.all catch and release for two years
    2. leave pike alone they will switch on to massive perch population.
    3. Investmore heavily in stream development and water quality monitoring

    Any thoughts on this??


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭gary29428


    You have more chance of getting rainbows stocked into Corrib then you have of them going catch and release, same with the pike. There's nothing the fisheries like more then a dead pike.....regardless of were it was caught or what it was feeding on....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    stylie wrote: »
    Perch have yo yo populations, they could crash to nothing in a year or two. Still their numbers could be reduced but all the species competing with young trout should be netted, small pike, perch, bream, roach all compete with small trout and their numbers should be held in check.

    I disagree. Removing coarse fish will have no great effect. They are just going to come back again and again.
    quote from IFI
    "It is anticipated that the impact on natural indigenous fish communities in the lake will also be significant as the habitat conditions created by dense Lagarosiphon stands are not those preferred by wild brown trout. By contrast, this habitat structure will probably favour the proliferation of coarse fishes, perch and pike in Lough Corrib. Many of these species deposit their adhesive egg masses on submerged plants and the newly hatched fry use the protection afforded by the vegetation while at the most vulnerable stage in their life cycle. In addition, pike commonly avail of the concealment provided by the dense vegetation to stalk prey." http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Lagarosiphon-major/adverse-impacts.html

    This is a major reason why coarse fish numbers are up. In this case, removing the coarse fish would be a short term solution to a long term problem. The invasive lagarosiphon weed has destroyed many areas of the lough, also zebra mussels are attaching themselves to this weed, so their effect is being increased.
    stylie wrote: »
    Maybe bring in commercial Perch netting ? People on the continent love them.
    very hard to target just one species when netting. also the sale coarse fish is illegal. People on the continent love anything that moves in water!
    stylie wrote: »
    I would like to see them reduce small pike number, everything under 2lb could do with thinning out, there are parts of the lake where you can catch half a dozen pound plus pike with out moving the boat.

    Direct result of the removal of big pike. I have seen it on cannals that have most of its fish eaten. you are left with hundreds/thousands of tiny jack pike (under 6 inches). in the last survey, all large pike were returned for this very reason.
    stylie wrote: »
    And I hate to think of the damage the bream are doing to the mayfly and olive grounds

    out of curiosity what damage do they do?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    I stated earlier in this thread, long before survey, that trout population was in freefall on Corrib. some posters on here went loo lah over my comments. It was obvious for all to see.The situation is only getting worse. Why don,t we now go
    1.all catch and release for two years
    2. leave pike alone they will switch on to massive perch population.
    3. Investmore heavily in stream development and water quality monitoring

    Any thoughts on this??

    The trout stock has declined by 21% in 16 years, that's not exactly freefall. It is worrying though. I'm not sure about your reasoning for the decline though - have you even read the preliminary report???

    C&R - so you think anglers are to blame?
    If excessive angling catches were responsible for reducing trout stocks in recent years then a significant reduction should be seen in the numbers of larger older fish in the 2012 survey – this is not the case. It is the smaller fish, not the larger individuals, which are poorly represented in the stock

    Pike - you may have a point. But perch populations are very fickle, and you often get boom-and-bust cycles. What happens when you leave pike alone - they feed heavily on the perch - as well as the trout - their numbers increase. When the perch stock crashes, as it does, you have an increased pike population with only trout to feed on. Scientific studies have shown that pike feed preferentially on salmonids, even in the presence of greater numbers of perch, so you will still have increased predation on trout if pike stocks are left untouched. That's hardly going to solve the trout problem, is it?

    Invest more heavily in stream development? So you think the streams are the problem?
    In the authors opinion the relatively poor young adult trout year classes are most likely due to a reduced survival of young fish after they migrate to the lake as opposed to a reduction in the recruitment rate of young fish. There is no information available to suggest that recruitment rates of trout to L. Corrib in recent years would have declined because of a reduced capacity of the streams to produce fish. On the contrary reduced pollution levels, a decline in the sheep overgrazing problem and on‐going stream enhancement programmes in recent years would favour increased trout production in these rivers. Extreme lengthy summer drought conditions can also result in reduced trout production. However, such conditions have not occurred in this area in recent years.

    There is already stream maintenance undertaken annually, and increased stream development certainly wouldn't hurt, but who's going to pay for it? Maybe its time trout anglers started to pay for their fishing??? ;) Now there's a can of worms!

    IMO, having read the report, the decline may be due to a number of factors - increased competition from perch and hybrids, predation from perch at fry stage, changes in lake ecology due to zebra mussel, Lagarosiphon, enrichment. But blaming anglers or streams does not stand up to scrutiny.


  • Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭stylie


    I disagree. Removing coarse fish will have no great effect. They are just going to come back again and again.
    quote from IFI

    Doing nothing wont help the trout either, at least removing the alien species in any numbers will help a % of small trout

    This is a major reason why coarse fish numbers are up. In this case, removing the coarse fish would be a short term solution to a long term problem. The invasive lagarosiphon weed has destroyed many areas of the lough, also zebra mussels are attaching themselves to this weed, so their effect is being increased.

    The weed is nearly unmanageable, the cold winter of 2011 did no damage to it and the weed cutting boats are overwhelmed. They need to keep their efforts up and pray the weed expansion slows down but no one seems to have any answers on how to deal with it

    very hard to target just one species when netting. also the sale coarse fish is illegal. People on the continent love anything that moves in water!

    It can be done, we are not talking a 100% success rate but if you net coarse fish in November you wont get a lot of game fish. Removing any amount will help keep their numbers down. The rumours are the Pike from the gill nets were sold in France, Im sure there would be no problem with legality if it was sanctioned by the fisheries board

    Direct result of the removal of big pike. I have seen it on cannals that have most of its fish eaten. you are left with hundreds/thousands of tiny jack pike (under 6 inches). in the last survey, all large pike were returned for this very reason.

    I state removing Pike under 2lb, I never said removing large Pike.
    out of curiosity what damage do they do?
    They are a non native large species that shoals in great numbers feeding on the bottom, they are having an impact on all the bottom life where they feed, I can only guess but I would imagine we are better off with out them as an invasive species.


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    Zzippy wrote: »
    The trout stock has declined by 21% in 16 years, that's not exactly freefall. It is worrying though. I'm not sure about your reasoning for the decline though - have you even read the preliminary report???

    C&R - so you think anglers are to blame?


    Pike - you may have a point. But perch populations are very fickle, and you often get boom-and-bust cycles. What happens when you leave pike alone - they feed heavily on the perch - as well as the trout - their numbers increase. When the perch stock crashes, as it does, you have an increased pike population with only trout to feed on. Scientific studies have shown that pike feed preferentially on salmonids, even in the presence of greater numbers of perch, so you will still have increased predation on trout if pike stocks are left untouched. That's hardly going to solve the trout problem, is it?

    Invest more heavily in stream development? So you think the streams are the problem?



    There is already stream maintenance undertaken annually, and increased stream development certainly wouldn't hurt, but who's going to pay for it? Maybe its time trout anglers started to pay for their fishing??? ;) Now there's a can of worms!

    IMO, having read the report, the decline may be due to a number of factors - increased competition from perch and hybrids, predation from perch at fry stage, changes in lake ecology due to zebra mussel, Lagarosiphon, enrichment. But blaming anglers or streams does not stand up to scrutiny.



    Yes Zippy I have read report, Glad you agree on Stream development.
    I am not blaming anyone, I only asked for opinion on Catch and release period.

    21% down and getting a whole lot worse is freefall.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Yes Zippy I have read report, Glad you agree on Stream development.
    I am not blaming anyone, I only asked for opinion on Catch and release period.

    21% down and getting a whole lot worse is freefall.

    OK. C&R won't hurt, but its not the problem, and probably won't help much. I never begrudge anyone a fish for the table although I fish almost entirely C&R myself, but the fact is the larger trout are there, which disproves the widely-held theory that angling, and buzzer fishing in particular, is removing too many of the spawning stock. I don't think C&R should be imposed.

    BTW, 21% is a snapshot at a particular moment in time - you can't say its getting a whole lot worse without more data points. For all we know it may have been -30% a few years ago and recovered, in which case its getting better. Semantics and statistics maybe, but facts and perception are not always closely linked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭coolhandspan


    Thanks ZZippy Glad to see you are reasonable again:)
    The lack of young trout found in nets mean that for next two years stocks will continue to decline hard. That is clearly outlined in report.

    We do need catch and release or reduced bag limit i.e 2 fish per boat, comps that require anglers to kill up to boat limit now have no place on a lake in trouble.

    To kill or not to kill the pike is a side show imho in all this debate, perhaps no pike over 10lbs should be taken from lough??

    I am interested in all opinions on this subject..


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭gary29428


    Just on the weed, the fisheries are now using a type of weedkiller to kill it, it sounds like nasty stuff and has a high content of Benzene...


Advertisement