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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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12467…338

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    #92
    Cake Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Cake Man


    Jaysus hard to believe minor championship starting next week, hurlers out against Tipp in Thurles and the same opposition and venue a week later for the footballers. That came up fast.
    Would also welcome any team news.


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    #93
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    A lot of the issue is waterford City is too far out of the way to be realistically holding neutral championship matches

    The rest of your post makes some sense, but this really doesn't. Waterford city is on a lot of key routes (including the M9) and is as easily accessible to a lot of the country as anywhere else that holds championship matches (Nowlan Park, Semple Stadium, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, the Gaelic Grounds).

    If we had a decent stadium, it would be eminently suitable for neutral games involving Wexford v Anyone for example! Kilkenny v Cork or Cork v Dublin neutral games are generally best suited to Thurles location wise, but that's every bit as out of the way for those supporters as Waterford would be.

    Where would you play Tipp v Kilkenny if you wanted a neutral venue for example? I can only think of Tullamore, Wexford or Limerick offhand. Waterford is just as easy to get to for those counties.

    My own 2c is that Carriganore would be ideal, since it's got terrific road access to the rest of the county and beyond, plus plenty of space for parking and expansion.


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    #94
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    fricatus wrote: »
    Where would you play Tipp v Kilkenny if you wanted a neutral venue for example? I can only think of Tullamore, Wexford or Limerick offhand. Waterford is just as easy to get to for those counties

    Croke Park. There's a thread on the GAA Discussion Board about capacities of inter-county grounds where the OP is doing a project for college with the intention of looking at 'the "optimal" location (i.e. minimal travel time) based on expected numbers and venue capacity'. Given the size of Croke Park and the ease of getting to Dublin from all points in the country, building another venue in Munster for the purposes of hosting the occasional big match seems like overkill.


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    #95
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    deiseach wrote: »
    Croke Park. There's a thread on the GAA Discussion Board about capacities of inter-county grounds where the OP is doing a project for college with the intention of looking at 'the "optimal" location (i.e. minimal travel time) based on expected numbers and venue capacity'. Given the size of Croke Park and the ease of getting to Dublin from all points in the country, building another venue in Munster for the purposes of hosting the occasional big match seems like overkill.

    Remember that I was addressing the point that Waterford city is "too far out of the way to be realistically holding neutral championship matches", so I was looking at it from a purely geographical perspective.

    My point is that Waterford (as a city) is well connected with an awful lot of hurling territory, and that geography is not an issue. Obviously you would hold a big match in Croker, but Waterford is closer than Dublin for all of Kilkenny and most of Tipp and Wexford.

    A suitable ground is, of course, another matter entirely!


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    #96
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    fricatus wrote: »
    Remember that I was addressing the point that Waterford city is "too far out of the way to be realistically holding neutral championship matches", so I was looking at it from a purely geographical perspective.

    My point is that Waterford (as a city) is well connected with an awful lot of hurling territory, and that geography is not an issue. Obviously you would hold a big match in Croker, but Waterford is closer than Dublin for all of Kilkenny and most of Tipp and Wexford.

    A suitable ground is, of course, another matter entirely!

    Don't forget that twice in the last six years the GAA decided that the Gaelic Grounds on the Ennis Road in Limerick was a suitable neutral venue for Waterford V Clare Championship matches.


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    #97
    blueflame
    Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭blueflame


    Cannot agree that Fraher Field is a better pitch or facility in any manner. It is a tighter pitch, and the town end goal mouth is a disgrace. The dressing room area is ridiculous, while the stand especially the covered part of it is tiny. The only thing going for it is a central location in terms of the county.

    Walsh Park may not be ideal by an means, but unless you are going to turn Fraher Field into a green field site, and start a fresh it is a waste of time.

    - The field at Walsh Park has improved greatly in recent years and it would not take a lot to improve this further. There is more often then not a gale coming in off the sea in Dungarvan, making it a proverbial "game of two halves".
    - Proper terracing with some degree of coverage such as in Ennis would not need massive investment but would be a massive improvement with out too much of an outlay. To do anything with the banks in Dungarvan would require a lot of preliminary work.
    - Parking is available on match days within a reasonable distance already and I am sure there is an opportunity to purchase or rent the Fannings Cash & Carry site on Keane's Road would open up endless development prospects. Any time there is a big game of any sorts in Dungarvan parking is an issue, whereas Walsh Park has hosted the Munster Championship Games against Dungarvan and Ken's night without any parking issues.


    Ideally a move to Carriganore with all its facilities would be best but the money needed to put in additional stands and terracing, especially as some of this would be likely to encroach on other playing surfaces at this stage, and getting reasonable sale prices for Fraher Field and Walsh Park in the current climate would be difficult.

    This is not a question of East v West, it is merely a case of economics and whre teh least money wil get you the most improvement.


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    #98
    dcrosskid
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭dcrosskid


    fricatus wrote: »
    Remember that I was addressing the point that Waterford city is "too far out of the way to be realistically holding neutral championship matches", so I was looking at it from a purely geographical perspective.

    My point is that Waterford (as a city) is well connected with an awful lot of hurling territory, and that geography is not an issue. Obviously you would hold a big match in Croker, but Waterford is closer than Dublin for all of Kilkenny and most of Tipp and Wexford.

    A suitable ground is, of course, another matter entirely!

    For a ground to be considered useful it has to be within reason, neutral to both counties. Outside of Tipp v Cork there is no other Munster pairing that Walsh park could be considered useful. Even then the home and away arrangements in Semple Stadium & the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh would have to be ignored as well as the Gaelic Grounds which would be as good a neutral venue as any stadium in Waterford.

    Here's all of the Munster pairings with what I believe is the best suited neutral grounds.

    Tipp v Cork - Limerick
    Tipp v Clare - Limerick
    Tipp v Limerick - Cork
    Tipp v Waterford - Cork
    Cork v Clare - Limerick/ Thurles
    Cork v Limerick - Thurles
    Cork v Waterford - Thurles
    Clare v Limerick - Thurles
    Clare v Waterford - Thurles
    Limerick v Waterford - Thurles


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    #99
    redlead
    Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭redlead


    dcrosskid wrote: »
    For a ground to be considered useful it has to be within reason, neutral to both counties. Outside of Tipp v Cork there is no other Munster pairing that Walsh park could be considered useful. Even then the home and away arrangements in Semple Stadium & the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh would have to be ignored as well as the Gaelic Grounds which would be as good a neutral venue as any stadium in Waterford.

    Here's all of the Munster pairings with what I believe is the best suited neutral grounds.

    Tipp v Cork - Limerick
    Tipp v Clare - Limerick
    Tipp v Limerick - Cork
    Tipp v Waterford - Cork
    Cork v Clare - Limerick/ Thurles
    Cork v Limerick - Thurles
    Cork v Waterford - Thurles
    Clare v Limerick - Thurles
    Clare v Waterford - Thurles
    Limerick v Waterford - Thurles

    Yes but if it was a decent gorund with a capacity to hold such crowds we would be using it in home/away arrangements like everyone else in Munster does (Clare aside). It would also be a good neutral venue for most Munster v Leinster teams as a poster already alluded to above. That ship has sailed though so all we really want is an improved stand with decent bucket seats and and concrete terrace.

    If we are strapped for cash we should be trying to use Nowlan park as a home venue for championship games in my opinion. I doubt the Munster council or westies would go for it though.


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    #100
    hurler on de ditch
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭hurler on de ditch


    fricatus wrote: »
    The rest of your post makes some sense, but this really doesn't. Waterford city is on a lot of key routes (including the M9) and is as easily accessible to a lot of the country as anywhere else that holds championship matches (Nowlan Park, Semple Stadium, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, the Gaelic Grounds).

    If we had a decent stadium, it would be eminently suitable for neutral games involving Wexford v Anyone for example! Kilkenny v Cork or Cork v Dublin neutral games are generally best suited to Thurles location wise, but that's every bit as out of the way for those supporters as Waterford would be.

    Where would you play Tipp v Kilkenny if you wanted a neutral venue for example? I can only think of Tullamore, Wexford or Limerick offhand. Waterford is just as easy to get to for those counties.

    My own 2c is that Carriganore would be ideal, since it's got terrific road access to the rest of the county and beyond, plus plenty of space for parking and expansion.
    and why only neutral games ,Tipp,Cork,Limerick,have home championship games ,not sure if im right ,but i think its a deal between their county boards ,also i heard Tipp county board get €50k for staging a championship game


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    #101
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    I've long thought staging our home Championship ties in Nowlan Park would be a great idea. But it seems it would offend the dignity of the Munster Championship far more than having a crowd of barely 12,000 rattling around in Semple Stadium does.


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    #102
    stumblingblock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 233 ✭✭stumblingblock


    Deise_2012 wrote: »
    Are the minor hurlers/footballers out soon? Any news about a panel for both

    Think it could be our poorest minor side in a while. Players are very small and light this year. Couple of match winners like darragh lyons and billy nolan but as a collective unit i think we are lacking a bit in strength in depth. Cork Tipp and Clare will all be strong


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    #103
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,510 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    deiseach wrote: »
    I've long thought staging our home Championship ties in Nowlan Park would be a great idea. But it seems it would offend the dignity of the Munster Championship far more than having a crowd of barely 12,000 rattling around in Semple Stadium does.

    To be fair I was at Nowlan Park for the Wexford match last year and the Waterford attendance was pitiful...probably around 3k, so I'm not sure your argument stacks up there.


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    #104
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭blue note


    deiseach wrote: »
    I've long thought staging our home Championship ties in Nowlan Park would be a great idea. But it seems it would offend the dignity of the Munster Championship far more than having a crowd of barely 12,000 rattling around in Semple Stadium does.

    I think it would affect their coffers and that's the bigger problem. The host county gets a good chunk of revenue (I think an eighth). So currently Cork tipp and limerick get good chunks from waterford games. Do you see them voting to give up that source or revenue? Some chance!


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    #105
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    blue note wrote: »
    I think it would affect their coffers and that's the bigger problem. The host county gets a good chunk of revenue (I think an eighth). So currently Cork tipp and limerick get good chunks from waterford games. Do you see them voting to give up that source or revenue? Some chance!

    They're more central than us geographically in Munster though, putting aside the home/away agreements us and clare are never going to be used for neutral venues unless the wexicans or Kilkenny are playing a Munster team. If we could get in on a home/away agreement ourselves we'd get a few extra quid, but would we play enough in Walsh Park to justify the outlay on it? Shame that the GAA didn't go in with Carriganore when the chance was there.


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    #106
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    To be fair I was at Nowlan Park for the Wexford match last year and the Waterford attendance was pitiful...probably around 3k, so I'm not sure your argument stacks up there.

    I'm not saying there would be more Waterford fans at the match, I'm asking why it is imperative to have games in venues capable of hosting crowds four times bigger than the expected attendance. Our last three Championship openers could have been played in Walsh Park.


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    #107
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    deiseach wrote: »
    I'm not saying there would be more Waterford fans at the match, I'm asking why it is imperative to have games in venues capable of hosting crowds four times bigger than the expected attendance. Our last three Championship openers could have been played in Walsh Park.

    That's a fair point, but aren't there minimum standards required for Championship, and doesn't Walsh Park not meet these?

    That's what I heard, but it could be BS...


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    #108
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭blue note


    Ropaire wrote: »
    They're more central than us geographically in Munster though, putting aside the home/away agreements us and clare are never going to be used for neutral venues unless the wexicans or Kilkenny are playing a Munster team. If we could get in on a home/away agreement ourselves we'd get a few extra quid, but would we play enough in Walsh Park to justify the outlay on it? Shame that the GAA didn't go in with Carriganore when the chance was there.

    I'm just saying that as things are now, Nowlan Park would be an excellent venue to use as a home ground so that we could have home / away arrangements with Cork, Tipp and Limerick. It's a nice ground, more convenient for the majority of the population than Thurles, Cork or Limerick and Kilkenny would surely be happy to give us some cut of the host county fee.

    But I think just about everyone agrees that it's a shame we didn't build a top quality facility in Carriganore when we had the chance. Something like the stadium in Tullamore would have been perfect. It wouldn't often be a good location for a neutral venue, but there's hardly a need for another in Munster anyway. Something like a 20k would have been perfect for club and league and occasional championship (remember there were a good few of our championship matches with less than that in recent years).

    But instead of either of those things happening, we'll continue to play our Munster matches at neutral venues and let other counties receive the income from it. And we'll continue to fund two sub standard venues for the 2/3 league games we get between them a year instead of one proper venue. It makes me laugh that the likes of Inter and AC Milan can share a stadium, but we can't agree amongst ourselves on one.


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    #109
    TyrionPower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭TyrionPower


    blue note wrote: »
    I'm just saying that as things are now, Nowlan Park would be an excellent venue to use as a home ground so that we could have home / away arrangements with Cork, Tipp and Limerick. It's a nice ground, more convenient for the majority of the population than Thurles, Cork or Limerick and Kilkenny would surely be happy to give us some cut of the host county fee.

    But I think just about everyone agrees that it's a shame we didn't build a top quality facility in Carriganore when we had the chance. Something like the stadium in Tullamore would have been perfect. It wouldn't often be a good location for a neutral venue, but there's hardly a need for another in Munster anyway. Something like a 20k would have been perfect for club and league and occasional championship (remember there were a good few of our championship matches with less than that in recent years).

    But instead of either of those things happening, we'll continue to play our Munster matches at neutral venues and let other counties receive the income from it. And we'll continue to fund two sub standard venues for the 2/3 league games we get between them a year instead of one proper venue. It makes me laugh that the likes of Inter and AC Milan can share a stadium, but we can't agree amongst ourselves on one.

    Tullamore has the Offaly county board ruined, Offalys adult teams are training in neighbouring counties for their pre-season work because they did not develop any suitable trainng facilities (source Daithi Regan on Off the Ball on Newstalk), Ya sure they have a nice stadium but the standard of players on all teams has dropped dramatically and they havent a pot to p!ss in.
    Why in gods name do we need a bigger stadium? it would get a big match once a year tops! but more realistically once every two years.
    If playing Cork or tipp in champioship we might get a big crowd, playing Clare or Limerick most likely not.
    Progression in the Championship proper means Thurles or Croke park - the qualifiers would mean games at home but again a small crowd.
    Leauge games small crowds - county finals - one man and his dog.

    it would be the biggest waste of time and money ever


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    #110
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    fricatus wrote: »
    That's a fair point, but aren't there minimum standards required for Championship, and doesn't Walsh Park not meet these?

    That's what I heard, but it could be BS...

    I'm sure there are, and Walsh Park probably wouldn't meet any of them! If Cusack Park is out, so is Walsh Park. Nowlan Park should be fine. There's little chance of a Munster game getting played outside Munster though. It's in the Proclamation or something.


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    #111
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    deiseach wrote: »
    I'm sure there are, and Walsh Park probably wouldn't meet any of them! If Cusack Park is out, so is Walsh Park. Nowlan Park should be fine. There's little chance of a Munster game getting played outside Munster though. It's in the Proclamation or something.

    Whats the requirements for hosting a championship game? They can't be too strict if that death trap below in Pairc Ui Caoimh could hold matches!


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    #112
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Ropaire wrote: »
    Whats the requirements for hosting a championship game? They can't be too strict if that death trap below in Pairc Ui Caoimh could hold matches!

    Good question. I've never seen any objective criteria. With respect to Páirc Uí Ceaușescu, I imagine there is a flowchart where any failings on its part lead to the box labelled "Consult Frank Murphy".


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    #113
    seananigans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭seananigans


    fricatus wrote: »
    That's a fair point, but aren't there minimum standards required for Championship, and doesn't Walsh Park not meet these?

    That's what I heard, but it could be BS...

    We played Laois in the championship at home last year, and were reviewed to see if we would be allowed have the Cork game at home ?


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    #114
    seananigans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭seananigans


    Callanan lost his appeal, so far so good


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    #115
    STIG83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,588 ✭✭✭STIG83


    seananigans wrote: »
    Callanan lost his appeal, so far so good

    If he played for KK he would be allowed play.
    JJ Farrell got a straight red and he appealed it, was allowed to play. Shefflin got sent off 2 years ago and he appealed and was successful.
    I rather see Callanan play and he would test out Waterford's backs, would tell us really how we are going.


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    #116
    crottys lake
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 160 ✭✭crottys lake


    I would have preferred to see Callanan play as we want to really test ourselves against the team that many feel are favourites for the All Ireland. I think Barry Coughlan would like to have faced Callanan this time round. They had an interesting joust earlier on this year in a challenge.


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    #117
    Ropaire
    Registered Users Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    I don't think Coughlan would have had much of a test from Callanan to be honest, the half back line and midfield are so deep there's no space there for a full forward to exploit. I'm more interested in seeing how the system we're playing holds up against the stronger teams, better to identify aby tweaks needed sooner rather than later.


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    #118
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    STIG83 wrote: »
    If he played for KK he would be allowed play.
    JJ Farrell got a straight red and he appealed it, was allowed to play. Shefflin got sent off 2 years ago and he appealed and was successful.
    I rather see Callanan play and he would test out Waterford's backs, would tell us really how we are going.

    Ah come on. Do you really think KK has that kind of sway? Farrell's red was universally derided and nobody expected it not to be rescinded. Shefflin got off on a technicality - wrong rule cited in ref's report. Frank Murph was apparently centrally involved.


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    #119
    ovalu
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭ovalu


    deiseach wrote: »
    I've long thought staging our home Championship ties in Nowlan Park would be a great idea. But it seems it would offend the dignity of the Munster Championship far more than having a crowd of barely 12,000 rattling around in Semple Stadium does.

    This has to be the stupidest posts I've seen, do u know there is a county west of holycross? Play cork at home in nowlan park? I'm sure cork will agree to play the away games in Fitzgerald stadium


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    #120
    Deskjockey
    Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Deskjockey


    STIG83 wrote: »
    If he played for KK he would be allowed play.
    JJ Farrell got a straight red and he appealed it, was allowed to play. Shefflin got sent off 2 years ago and he appealed and was successful.
    I rather see Callanan play and he would test out Waterford's backs, would tell us really how we are going.
    We're in the last 4 of the league for the first time since 2007!!! Call me naïve, but I'd prefer to see us win the league than for Callinan to test out our backs. Tipperary will be a strong test for us with or without him, they have a super team the last few years, and have been unlucky not to win more than they have done.
    This downgrading of the league's importance is ridiculous in my opinion.


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    #121
    deiseach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    ovalu wrote: »
    This has to be the stupidest posts I've seen, do u know there is a county west of holycross? Play cork at home in nowlan park? I'm sure cork will agree to play the away games in Fitzgerald stadium

    Can someone help me with this, Google Translate was stumped.


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