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Political Policing? PSNI soft on Loyalists

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    #32
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    so they were causing an obstruction and were arrested by the Police?

    Wow, I'm sure MI5 spent hours instructing the PSNI on what to do with that one:rolleyes:
    How come loyalist blocking roads havent been arrested....


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    #33
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    so they were causing an obstruction and were arrested by the Police?

    Wow, I'm sure MI5 spent hours instructing the PSNI on what to do with that one:rolleyes:

    Arrested ages later at a time when the cops are pursuing a nationwide agenda including attempting to have people imprisoned for having a beret in the house. Considering the police in the north have recently been proven to be colluding with Loyalists to murder British citizens I don't see how you have such difficulty believeing they may have an agenda.


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    #34
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    GRMA wrote: »
    How come loyalist blocking roads havent been arrested....

    yet....
    FTA69 wrote: »
    Arrested ages later at a time when the cops are pursuing a nationwide agenda including attempting to have people imprisoned for having a beret in the house. Considering the police in the north have recently been proven to be colluding with Loyalists to murder British citizens I don't see how you have such difficulty believeing they may have an agenda.

    it was proven the RUC were doing it, the PSNI is a different animal entirely.


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    #35
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    yet....



    it was proven the RUC were doing it, the PSNI is a different animal entirely.

    The PSNI has the same agenda the RUC did, to maintain the security of the northern state within a British context. And to this effect their security agenda is exclusively dictated by MI5, who were up to their necks in state collusion with Loyalists.


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    #36
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    FTA69 wrote: »
    The PSNI has the same agenda the RUC did, to maintain the security of the northern state within a British context. And to this effect their security agenda is exclusively dictated by MI5, who were up to their necks in state collusion with Loyalists.
    i would not be so quick in throwing accusations about so quickly,wait at least untill the smithwick tribunal report is published,


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    #37
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    getz wrote: »
    i would not be so quick in throwing accusations about so quickly,wait at least untill the smithwick tribunal report is published,

    Sorry but collusion was a reality. End of story really.


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    #38
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Sorry but collusion was a reality. End of story really.
    and so was irish senators gun running,and defence monies being paid to the IRA ,


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    #39
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    getz wrote: »
    and so was irish senators gun running,and defence monies being paid to the IRA ,

    First of all Irish state support went to defence committees, by the time the Provisional IRA was up and running properly the state turned completely against Republicans. And besides, does that somehow justify official British state agencies such as the police, the military and various intelligence agencies arming and equipping Loyalists so they could murder civilians in the UK?


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    #40
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    FTA69 wrote: »
    First of all Irish state support went to defence committees, by the time the Provisional IRA was up and running properly the state turned completely against Republicans. And besides, does that somehow justify official British state agencies such as the police, the military and various intelligence agencies arming and equipping Loyalists so they could murder civilians in the UK?
    then the smithwick tribunal on state collusion in the shootings of northern irish policemen is a complete waste of time and money [costing millions of euros ,so far]


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    #41
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    getz wrote: »
    then the smithwick tribunal on state collusion in the shootings of northern irish policemen is a complete waste of time and money [costing millions of euros ,so far]

    Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps a guard did pass on information to the IRA, I wouldn't disbelieve the notion. That however, is very different to a co-ordinated and sustained campaign of collusion undertaken by various state bodies.


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    #42
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Ironically almost an identical thread is running on a loyalist site with exactly the same complaints about the police as the usual republicans on this site, the arguments are identical, just have to substitute the words republican / loyalist


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    #43
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    junder wrote: »
    Ironically almost an identical thread is running on a loyalist site with exactly the same complaints about the police as the usual republicans on this site, the arguments are identical, just have to substitute the words republican / loyalist

    Why are Republicans in charge of the PSNI's security agenda? I thought it was MI5 myself.

    Loyalists having a siege mentality where everyone wants to sell them out at the drop of a hat is nothing new to be fair.


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    #44
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    junder wrote: »
    Ironically almost an identical thread is running on a loyalist site with exactly the same complaints about the police as the usual republicans on this site, the arguments are identical, just have to substitute the words republican / loyalist
    Given decades of RUC support any marginal move towards equal policing is viewed as favoring nationalists by loyalists.


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    #45
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine. So far any evidence that the psni is favouring loyalists is anecdotal. No actual proof. Once the protests die down the police will start arresting people, at the moment they are gathering intel,same as the Garda did during the recent dissident funeral.


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    #46
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Arrested ages later at a time when the cops are pursuing a nationwide agenda including attempting to have people imprisoned for having a beret in the house. Considering the police in the north have recently been proven to be colluding with Loyalists to murder British citizens I don't see how you have such difficulty believeing they may have an agenda.

    no the haven't!
    It is believed that their was collusion at a very high level between the British Army (mostly the FRU) and loyalist gunmen years ago.
    However dont let the facts get in the way of your agenda.


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    #47
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    no the haven't!
    It is believed that their was collusion at a very high level between the British Army (mostly the FRU) and loyalist gunmen years ago.
    However dont let the facts get in the way of your agenda.
    800px-Collusion_is_not_an_illusion.jpg


    Everyone knows collusion was a reality


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    #48
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    junder wrote: »
    Blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine. So far any evidence that the psni is favouring loyalists is anecdotal. No actual proof. Once the protests die down the police will start arresting people, at the moment they are gathering intel,same as the Garda did during the recent dissident funeral.

    and it is exactly the same way the Metropolitan and West Midlands police handled the riots last year.

    Seeing as the chief constable of the PSNI cut his teeth at the Met and then the WM Police, I'd say these riots will be handled pretty much the same way.


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    #49
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    and it is exactly the same way the Metropolitan and West Midlands police handled the riots last year.

    Seeing as the chief constable of the PSNI cut his teeth at the Met and then the WM Police, I'd say these riots will be handled pretty much the same way.
    Dont think the police in England would let super brit types wrapped in union jacks block roads in London Liverpool or any other city or town in England


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    #50
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    GRMA wrote: »
    800px-Collusion_is_not_an_illusion.jpg


    Everyone knows collusion was a reality

    I see, it's on a gable wall so it must be true


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    #51
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    GRMA wrote: »
    800px-Collusion_is_not_an_illusion.jpg


    Everyone knows collusion was a reality
    The key word is WAS , not as another poster claimed IS.
    I was reponding to a gross misrepresentation.


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    #52
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    It's like Groundhog Day here in all the Republican/Loyalist/Northern Ireland threads. Address the points made, if a poster doesn't make a point and just posts tripe, don't feel like you have to respond, makes for a far more informative thread.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #53
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    junder wrote: »
    I see, it's on a gable wall so it must be true

    But what if British government reports say it;

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/12/12/de-silva-report-reveals-that-85-of-uda-intelligence-sourced-in-state-material/

    Also consider;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Reaction_Force


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    #54
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2252237/The-murder-mayhem-squad-Shocking-new-revelations-undercover-soldier-carried-shoot-ask-questions-later-attacks-IRA-terrorists-British-Army.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Our wee country or our wee colony?

    Anyway to the OP "Republican" rioters have also had the softly, softly approach.

    Remember that the biggest victims of this current this mess have been the Alliance which is mostly Scotch Irish. They have been forced to leave Northern Ireland and received very serious death threats.


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    #55
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    Both myself and my teenage daughter (13 years old) are cinstantly harassed by protestant teens, the PSNI have done nothing about it for over a year not. I have made five complaints and supplied both video footage and photographs, I was told they could only see two faces clearly and unless I had names and address for the two faces they could do nothing. I was told this by a member of the PSNI that gave his name as Constable English!!!
    If thats not collusion then could someone please explain to me what it is?


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    #56
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Offy wrote: »
    Both myself and my teenage daughter (13 years old) are cinstantly harassed by protestant teens, the PSNI have done nothing about it for over a year not. I have made five complaints and supplied both video footage and photographs, I was told they could only see two faces clearly and unless I had names and address for the two faces they could do nothing. I was told this by a member of the PSNI that gave his name as Constable English!!!
    If thats not collusion then could someone please explain to me what it is?

    There are two things going on in Northern Ireland- one is a fight between two tribes, and this is very real, but beyond this there is the British state and its wish to continue ruling this part Ireland (yes there are and were before partition major differences between northern and southern Ireland) and it is more than happy to use tribal antagonism to cement its rule.

    There is a lie put forward infront of the world that the GFA sorted everything out. It didnt. But the facade has to be maintained and so innocent people on both sides have intimidation and violence ignored by the state.


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    #57
    Offy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Offy


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    There are two things going on in Northern Ireland- one is a fight between two tribes, and this is very real, but beyond this there is the British state and its wish to continue ruling this part Ireland (yes there are and were before partition major differences between northern and southern Ireland) and it is more than happy to use tribal antagonism to cement its rule.

    There is a lie put forward infront of the world that the GFA sorted everything out. It didnt. But the facade has to be maintained and so innocent people on both sides have intimidation and violence ignored by the state.

    I can only assume they realise that this kind of behaviour is the best recruitment for the IRA, they are not stupid people after all. So why do they want people supporting the IRA? I can only conclude that the British government and the PSNI want the IRA to exist and this confuses me!


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    #58
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Offy wrote: »
    Both myself and my teenage daughter (13 years old) are cinstantly harassed by protestant teens, the PSNI have done nothing about it for over a year not. I have made five complaints and supplied both video footage and photographs, I was told they could only see two faces clearly and unless I had names and address for the two faces they could do nothing. I was told this by a member of the PSNI that gave his name as Constable English!!!
    If thats not collusion then could someone please explain to me what it is?
    This is funny, how do you know their religion? And I have complaned about kids hitting my cars with balls and people letting their dogs crap everywhere and they never sent in gunships, must be collusion also, but the constable was not named english so I am probably safe.


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    #59
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Offy wrote: »
    I can only assume they realise that this kind of behaviour is the best recruitment for the IRA, they are not stupid people after all. So why do they want people supporting the IRA? I can only conclude that the British government and the PSNI want the IRA to exist and this confuses me!

    Yes I can, and the same behaviour on the other side is the best recruitment to this "Unionist Forum" and "Protestant United Voice". I presume that the British state want to keep both "tribes" fighting among themselves but to contain the problems.

    To be frank with you after they got violence down to "managable levels" I think the British State allowed the Troubles to continue as it was a good training ground.


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    #60
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    gallag wrote: »
    This is funny, how do you know their religion? And I have complaned about kids hitting my cars with balls and people letting their dogs crap everywhere and they never sent in gunships, must be collusion also, but the constable was not named english so I am probably safe.

    People know people's religion in Northern Ireland. Thats just the way it is.

    And tribal violence/intimidation hits another level of your being than normal vandalism/thuggery. If you had experienced it you would know.


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    #61
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    SoulandForm wrote: »

    Yes I can, and the same behaviour on the other side is the best recruitment to this "Unionist Forum" and "Protestant United Voice". I presume that the British state want to keep both "tribes" fighting among themselves but to contain the problems.

    To be frank with you after they got violence down to "managable levels" I think the British State allowed the Troubles to continue as it was a good training ground.
    So it was not terrorists bombing/shooting to force their agenda it was actually the british gov working like a puppet master keeping a reason to spend massive amounts on security and training in n.i. would be cheeper to keep sending troops to Kenya, canada etc for training.


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