Ashtown on Joe Duffy NOW.

Killme00 · 18-12-2008 11:20am

Mairt wrote: »

Joe asked if the dog knew it was about to be killed (his words this time) the girl said that they didn't know until (in spolier brackets because the description will be upsetting for some people)
they reached the shed and then they'd see "five or six" dead dogs on the floor in front of them.

Words fail me to describe how this made me feel.

Ellie (in my sig) was originally in Ashton before going Dogs in Distress. Its very hard not to personalise these things but I am going to make a nice big donation to DiD for Christmas.

Doggymad · 18-12-2008 12:31pm

part 2 today 1.45 to 3 so get ringing and emailing

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 2:57pm

Discodog wrote: »

I have just emailed the Dog's Trust. They spent €10 million on their first Irish shelter. I have suggested that they take over the pounds on a no profit basis.

Every time that there is an issue like this you lot break into your various fractions to fight your own cases. This is not an issue about dog breeds but about the conditions in Irish Pounds.

One day the animal lovers of Ireland might manage to unite for one minute then we can get something done. I appreciate that you are passionate & many do great work but by dividing you will lose. Think of the welfare of all dogs & lets try & really make a difference. I would strongly suggest that, those that can, gather real evidence like photos etc & then we make a concerted campaign.

For example if the vet appointed by the council to inspect ever put down Pound dogs then that would be pure dinamite.

with all due respect discodog but among the problems and appalling condition's up in this pound it is also an issue a very big one at that regarding dog breeds, the problem up in that pound is that the pound manager should have being moved a long time ago he could have that pound up to scratch he is the manager there is no explanation and to be honest yes i have a big problem with dogs being MURDERED just because they happen to be a certain breed no other dog pound does it we know its not all about restricted breeds but this is one of the problems up there that needs to be addressed along with the rest, i have set in my home trying to get a dog out of this pound with a rescue space offered and a possible loving home but then to be lied to by this pound manager saying that DCC said they wont let this dog out regardless of how friendly and loving it is it will be KILLED and the hardest thing is when he admitted yesterday on joe’s show he makes the decision have you any idea how hurtful this is? knowing this dog is being killed for no reason even 8 week old puppys if he thinks they are of the bull breed they are killed and the way they are put to sleep is awful i thought in this line of work they would be happy to Rhome dogs to responsible owners, one less dog to add to their statistics, now we come to dogs trust who do a great job in the uk and do a great job here in Ireland BUT i don’t know were you were when DCC tried to implement a ban on council tenants that was unlawful but yet dogs trust stood right beside DCC in this act of BSL, discrimination on responsible owners who lived in council housing because it was only for restricted breeds stating they would spay/neutered council tenants dogs for free so by facilitating DCC they were encouraging DCC but it was only for council tenants so nobody gave a hoot, dogs trust also made a statement at the dog show this year in the RDS for people to Rhome dogs from pounds and shelters but NOT to Rhome pure breeds because of the health problems they come with that an x breed has less health problems :eek: but yet when the blue cross made that statement about restricted breed and was targeted at every1 not just council tenants well you seen what happened there was uproar, the problem is division within people all of these issues could to be addressed very Easily if people would come together, we seem to have an attitude with a lot of people and that is if it doesn't affect them they just don’t give a **** little do they know that step by step and regardless of what issues we have we need to put them all together stand together and help these dogs each and every 1 of them, i think a person should be employed to do this job that treats each and every dog breed as an equal and their main priority should be for the dogs and the dogs only..
im not targeting any1 hear all im saying there’s enough of quarreling going on between people we need to turn it in the right direction

Noopti · 18-12-2008 3:08pm

That was incredibly hard to read lilly, but I agree with what you said 100%.

Whispered · 18-12-2008 3:11pm

So do we have a list of the exact points that need to be raised?

1. Conditions in the pounds
2. Treatment of staff who try to do something about it (Is that definate or just hearsay)
3. The pounds kill policy (certain breeds etc)

Are these the main points? I'm asking because many many points have been made here and if I am going to send an email and ask people to pass it on, I want to be sure I'm saying the right things and raising the right issues.

Thanks

knowkellfi · 18-12-2008 3:27pm

arctictree wrote: »

We got our fella from Ashtown. The staff were really nice but TBH, the conditions were a disgrace. Our springer was in a 4ftx2ft cage and was throwing a wobbler when anyone went near it - I'm not surprised. We took him at 11:30am on a Saturday (they close at 12:30) and were told that he would have been in there until Monday morning. He also had serious diarrhea which took about 2 weeks to clear up.

Just got a dog (jack Russell X) from Ashtown last week, have her two weeks now, the conditions aren't great, the little dogs are locked in cages with larger ones in pound out the back with no shelter. The noise is deafing with all the barking when you enter the kennels (I use that word loosely as it as in no way a kennel). A friend of my mams heard that we were looking for a dog (had my name down for one in the DSPCA) rang me & begged that I go Ashtown to get one. Couldn't leave without a dog and there were so many all due to be put to sleep. I assume that its has happened to most of the ones I saw last week

The girls working there were so nice and urged me not to leave without a dog & if I knew anyone else looking to send them down. They really hate to see them being put to sleep. The dog I got has very bad kennel cough will be making a second trip to the blue cross this evening with her. She is such a lovely dog and we are so glad we saved her.:)

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 3:38pm

Noopti wrote: »

That was incredibly hard to read lilly, but I agree with what you said 100%.

lol its also incredibly hard for me too:D ..... but at least you know what im saying

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 3:39pm

helena.ryan wrote: »

So do we have a list of the exact points that need to be raised?

1. Conditions in the pounds
2. Treatment of staff who try to do something about it (Is that definate or just hearsay)
3. The pounds kill policy (certain breeds etc)

Are these the main points? I'm asking because many many points have been made here and if I am going to send an email and ask people to pass it on, I want to be sure I'm saying the right things and raising the right issues.

Thanks

your right id says there's way more to add to it though :rolleyes:

Noopti · 18-12-2008 3:45pm

I think the main point is accountablility of pound managers. They shouldn't be allowed to make up their own rules regarding processes, conditions etc.

There should be someone who, answerable to the public, is in charge of all pounds and that the individial managers are answerable to. This person should not be a lay person either, he/she should be a Vet who is knowledgable and empathic to all animals.
This person sets the rules that all pounds follow regarding:
PTS policy
Minimum standard living conditions
etc

And if the managers fail to live up to these conditions then they are warned, and if things don't change or they re-offend they are fired. Simple.

Allowing someone to be in complete control of what is not a private business is ridiculous. Basically someone who can do what they want, and nobody can do anything about it.

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 3:48pm

Noopti wrote: »

I think the main point is accountablility of pound managers. They shouldn't be allowed to make up their own rules regarding processes, conditions etc.

There should be someone who, answerable to the public, is in charge of all pounds and that the individial managers are answerable to. This person should not be a lay person either, he/she should be a Vet who is knowledgable and empathic to all animals.
This person sets the rules that all pounds follow regarding:
PTS policy
Minimum standard living conditions
etc

And if the managers fail to live up to these conditions then they are warned, and if things don't change or they re-offend they are fired. Simple.

Allowing someone to be in complete control of what is not a private business is ridiculous. Basically someone who can do what they want, and nobody can do anything about it.

you make it sound very easy your spot on

Noopti · 18-12-2008 3:50pm

Lilly/DNB wrote: »

you make it sound very easy your spot on

As with many things, it sounds easy in theory but in reality it would be quite different probably.

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 3:54pm

APPENDIX A: MINUTES OF COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON 9th JUNE 2008

Q120. COUNCILLOR MARY FITZPATRICK
Will the manager please find a report on :-
a. How many dogs come through the Ashton dog pound per year
b. What numbers are put to sleep and how many are re-homed
APPENDIX A: MINUTES OF COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON 9th JUNE 2008
c. Are there established operating standards for the pound and if so
where are they published
d. What are the operating costs of the pound?
e. How is the pound funded?
f. How many staff are employed, please breakdown into fulltime/partime
voluntary and paid staff?
g. What qualifications are required for staff of the pound?
h. Is there veterinary staff available if so on what basis?
i. How is it determined whether or not an animal should be put to sleep?
CITY MANAGER’S REPLY:
Report on Dog Warden Service and Pound Facility
a. During 2007 a total of 1,515 dogs in the administrative area of Dublin City
Council came through Ashton Dog Pound
b. In 2007 a total of 236 dogs were put to sleep, 243 dogs were reclaimed
by their owners and 1,023 dogs were rehomed.
c. It is a requirement of the Dog warden Contract that the Contractor shall
provide suitable, safe and clean accommodation in line with best
practice for the detention of abandoned, stray or unwanted dogs. The
pound is subject to unannounced inspections by the City Veterinary
Officer on a monthly basis to ensure compliance with such standards.
d. Dublin City Council paid €342,984.24 to Ashton Dog Pound in 2007
e. Ashton Dog Pound is funded by Dublin City Council, Fingal County
Council and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council
f. Three full-time Dog Wardens are employed for the administrative area
of Dublin City Council. Three full-time Kennel Hands, one part-time
Kennel Hand, five voluntary staff and one Office Staff are employed for
the three Local Authorities
g. It is a requiremnet of the Dog warden contract that the contractor will
ensure that any persons they engage will have received the necessary
training in order to be competent to undertake the work required. The
contractors will further be required to provide continuous training to
ensure competence levels are maintained. All Dog Wardens are trained
by the Senior Dog Warden. They also have a good knowledge of the
Control of Dogs Act. The Dog Pound employs staff with qualifications in
dog handling, animal husbandry and a veterinary assistant.
h. There are two part-time vets available at the Pound
i. An animal is put to sleep for the following reasons:
(a) Dogs are dangerous/aggressive, certain restricted breeds and
cannot be rehomed
APPENDIX A: MINUTES OF COUNCIL MEETING HELD ON 9th JUNE 2008
(b) Dogs are very old, are no longer wanted by their owners and
cannot be rehomed
© Dogs are very sick, are no longer wanted by their owners and
cannot be rehomed

€342,984.24 X 3 Councils = € 1,028,952.72

peasant · 18-12-2008 4:28pm

Now, I'm no expert on dog pounds and how they are run (so I could be completely wrong) ...but isn't this just the tip of the iceberg?

As I understand it, the main function of dog pounds is not to re-home or to let unwanted dogs live out their life in peace and comfort but to get unwanted dogs off the streets.

As there are so many of them, the eventual fate of any dog in a pound is death. For some dogs it comes sooner, for others later.

Some pounds allow dogs to be re-homed, others allow only certain dogs to be re-homed, others don't re-home at all.

Some pounds give x days of grace for owners to re-claim dogs, others dont.

The system is a mess and totally arbitrary and pretty much ungoverned ...

But at the end of the day, dog pounds are governement sponsored dog extermination facilities.

Or am I wrong there?

bernard0368 · 18-12-2008 5:00pm

I have never been in Ashtown pound so I wont comment on its condition,

The wholesale slaughter of restricted breeds may be wrong. however we do have accept that these dogs can be near impossible to rehome with responsible owners. What do you do with these animals??
The pound would have a duty of care to the public to ensure that such animals were put in the right hands, I am sure that they would have no idea on the history of the animal.
This is also a business (wrongly) and the holders of the contract are in it to make a profit.

Yes its is wrong that they just put them down,
Is it right to let a potential danger out in the public?
Should the pounds be run as non-profit agencies?
Is it any different elsewhere in Europe?

Noopti · 18-12-2008 5:01pm

Lilly/DNB wrote: »

i. An animal is put to sleep for the following reasons:
(a) Dogs are dangerous/aggressive, certain restricted breeds and
cannot be rehomed

I'm confused. Does the above statement mean that restricted breeds that cannot be rehomed are PTS, or that restricted breeds are PTS and dogs that cannot be rehomed are PTS.

The reason I ask is that it seems clear the manager of Ashton pound abitrarily puts restricted breeds to sleep without even trying to rehome them.
If so, then what happens if a responsible owner of a Pitbull for example loses their dog and it ends up in Ashton? The dog is simply PTS? So they kill a perfectly well trained and loved pet just because of the breed.

Has the owner no comeback in such a situation?

mountainyman · 18-12-2008 5:41pm

Lilly/DNB wrote: »

:eek: that’s far from the truth and a very unfair thing to say about a breed that has being victimized used by scum to intimidate people used as gambling tools and even used as bate this breed has being the victim of irresponsible owners little hard men and the public have being brain washed in relation to the true characteristic of this breed, pit bull have just a hand full of people trying to save their life every day because everybody seems to have the same attitude as yourself we have some rescues that wont give shelter because of the fear that has being put into them about this breed i have a Q for you have you ever owned a pit bull? have you ever researched this breed except listening to the false media reports because i can tell you i have owned this breed for 22 years i have never had a problem talking about profiling people by profiling their dog not all people who what to own this breed own it to fight them or want to feel like a hard man, i know i own mine because they are loving loyal clownish i could go on and on, your more than welcome to come and meet all 3 of my dogs and then make your mind up about them..

I sdaid earlier that I accept that they are very loving and loyal dogs. I think most owners are sumbags though obviously not you. A dog that has been abused to make it fight can't be rehomed and if you let a PBT wander then you aren't looking after them properly. It isn't the Pit Bull's fault he's dangerous he was bred that way. But he is dangerous.

Killme00 · 18-12-2008 5:42pm

bernard0368 wrote: »

I have never been in Ashtown pound so I wont comment on its condition,

The wholesale slaughter of restricted breeds may be wrong. however we do have accept that these dogs can be near impossible to rehome with responsible owners. What do you do with these animals??
The pound would have a duty of care to the public to ensure that such animals were put in the right hands, I am sure that they would have no idea on the history of the animal.
This is also a business (wrongly) and the holders of the contract are in it to make a profit.

Yes its is wrong that they just put them down,
Is it right to let a potential danger out in the public?
Should the pounds be run as non-profit agencies?
Is it any different elsewhere in Europe?

There are rescues willing to take these dogs until a suitable home can be found. Surely this is better than sticking them with a poison needle.

bigpinkelephant · 18-12-2008 5:47pm

During 2007 a total of 1,515 dogs in the administrative area of Dublin City
Council came through Ashton Dog Pound
b. In 2007 a total of 236 dogs were put to sleep, 243 dogs were reclaimed
by their owners and 1,023 dogs were rehomed.

Is this definitely correct? I have been on sitesabout Irish animal welfare and have seen the pound statistics which say that roughly 90% (or more) of pound dogs are put down.

bigpinkelephant · 18-12-2008 5:50pm

peasant wrote: »

Now, I'm no expert on dog pounds and how they are run (so I could be completely wrong) ...but isn't this just the tip of the iceberg?

As I understand it, the main function of dog pounds is not to re-home or to let unwanted dogs live out their life in peace and comfort but to get unwanted dogs off the streets.

As there are so many of them, the eventual fate of any dog in a pound is death. For some dogs it comes sooner, for others later.

Some pounds allow dogs to be re-homed, others allow only certain dogs to be re-homed, others don't re-home at all.

Some pounds give x days of grace for owners to re-claim dogs, others dont.

The system is a mess and totally arbitrary and pretty much ungoverned ...

But at the end of the day, dog pounds are governement sponsored dog extermination facilities.

Or am I wrong there?

So are you defending the pounds? From what you are saying it looks like you think there is no point in looking after the dogs properly because most of them will be put down anyway?

bernard0368 · 18-12-2008 5:51pm

Killme00, There may be rescues willing to take them, I am sure they take as many as they can but the pot can only be filled so much.
I agree that it is wrong to put them to sleep as a matter of course but this is not an ideal world. I am sure you would agree that a pit bull is not going to be picked by a family as quick as another breed. They need people with a good understanding of the breed and they are few on the ground. I have loads of experiance with dogs mostly working animals and hunters but I would never take a pit bull

peasant · 18-12-2008 5:54pm

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

So are you defending the pounds?

I did no such thing, I just asked a question (and please spare me another one of your personal vendettas this time)

mountainyman · 18-12-2008 5:54pm

Discodog wrote: »

I was amazed by the attitude of the so called Vet who is paid by the council to inspect the pound. She was too gushing in her praise & raised real doubts as to her integrity.

As the pound gets €750,000 per year we should start a campaign to get a charity such as the Dogs Trust to run it on a no profit basis. It would be interesting to find out how they got the contract & when it due to be renewed.

The pound said that they spend 15,000 a year on food are you sure that they don't get 75,000?

bigpinkelephant · 18-12-2008 5:58pm

peasant wrote: »

I did no such thing, I just asked a question (and please spare me another one of your personal vendettas this time)

I've told you before that I do not have a personal vendetta. Believe it or not, other people are entitled to disagree with your rants.

Hugs and kisses and have a nice day.

Doggymad · 18-12-2008 6:01pm

Bernard can i ask you why you wouldnt ' take ' a pitbull ?
is it because you have never had the pleasure of spending a few hours even with one ' or just because you believe everything you hear ?

most poeple that get into dog rescue are a bit unsure of the listed dogs but anyone that i know that has invited one in to there home to foster were completely amazed at there gentle behavier ' were not all telling lies are we ? i do trust my dog and i know if my dog got out by accident i wouldnt feel worried that she would be going around causeing carnage in Dublin i would be more worried that someone would fall in love with her and keep her

seriously ye,d want to get out there and experience first hand the good side of these dogs '

Whispered · 18-12-2008 6:04pm

Well seeing as how this thread has once again gone down the route of dog v's dog, personal comments etc I assume we will all be too busy arguing among ourselves to get any sort of organised email campaign up and running?

ISDW · 18-12-2008 6:12pm

Lilly/DNB wrote: »

yes i have a big problem with dogs being MURDERED just because they happen to be a certain breed no other dog pound does it

Lily, I know it seems I'm always disagreeing with you;) but unfortunately you are wrong in this, its not just Ashton that do this. I visited Longford Pound last year to look at their flooring - don't ask - and there was a lovely Rottie cross in there coming to the end of his 5 days. I asked if I could take him and give him a good home, he was gorgeous, but I was told no because of his breed he wouldn't be rehomed. That was my first experience of this breed specific murder.

I think helena is right, we all need to work together and decide what message we want to get out there, try and get some kind of framework for every pound in the country. That way, it would be easier to check if the different pounds are complying with the law and keep ALL dogs, regardless of breed or area of the country safe.

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 6:38pm

bernard0368
B]The pound would have a duty of care to the public to ensure that such animals were put in the right hands, I am sure that they would have no idea on the history of the animal.[/B]

[FONT=&quot]the pound have no history on any breed that is taking in, The pound should have a duty of care to the public to ensure that all not just such animals were put in the right hands[/FONT]

Is it right to let a potential danger out in the public?

.. Again that should be for all breeds....

The wholesale slaughter of restricted breeds may be wrong. however we do have accept that these dogs can be near impossible to rehome with responsible owners. What do you do with these animals??

there are many responsible owners out there who own and want to own one of these breeds so i don’t buy their to hard to rehome i have rehomed 100s of pit bulls and other breeds that are doing very well with their new families and im sure lots of people on this board has done the same, the thing is their not giving the chance in the pound their just killed we know not all dogs can be saved but when there a rescue space offered by the only bull breed rescue in Ireland a lady with years of experience who's homing policy is very strict are still refused to take these dogs and that’s what people are very upset about..

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 7:05pm

mountainyman wrote: »

I sdaid earlier that I accept that they are very loving and loyal dogs. I think most owners are sumbags though obviously not you. A dog that has been abused to make it fight can't be rehomed and if you let a PBT wander then you aren't looking after them properly. It isn't the Pit Bull's fault he's dangerous he was bred that way. But he is dangerous.

A dog that has been abused to make it fight can't be rehomed
yes it can with people willing to take an interest..
http://www.bestfriends.org/dogtown/index.cfm?csid=3725&csii=3782&csit=Set

if you let a PBT wander then you aren't looking after them properly.
i agree with you 100% but this should go for all dogs..

It isn't the Pit Bull's fault he's dangerous he was bred that way. But he is dangerous.

This is the biggest fight the pit bull has "people", i take it you have never met one? the pit bull is one of the most stable breeds you could ever know, he is loyal, loving very eager to please his owner, yes these dogs were bred for animal combat decades ago the most important part of their breeding was to be non human aggressive dog aggression and human aggression are 2 totally different things and should never be mixed up. no different than what most breeds were bred for take the jrt and how small he is im sure were breed for badger bating the Doberman for protection Rhodesian Ridgeback breed to hunt lions with early socializing and training any breed can make a fantastic pet its not about breed,,

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 7:08pm

ISDW wrote: »

Lily, I know it seems I'm always disagreeing with you;) but unfortunately you are wrong in this, its not just Ashton that do this. I visited Longford Pound last year to look at their flooring - don't ask - and there was a lovely Rottie cross in there coming to the end of his 5 days. I asked if I could take him and give him a good home, he was gorgeous, but I was told no because of his breed he wouldn't be rehomed. That was my first experience of this breed specific murder.

I think helena is right, we all need to work together and decide what message we want to get out there, try and get some kind of framework for every pound in the country. That way, it would be easier to check if the different pounds are complying with the law and keep ALL dogs, regardless of breed or area of the country safe.

not at all i think that people are really starting to talk about their experiences of these places its shocking and yes we need to do something i agree with you..

Lilly/DNB · 18-12-2008 7:13pm

helena.ryan wrote: »

Well seeing as how this thread has once again gone down the route of dog v's dog, personal comments etc I assume we will all be too busy arguing among ourselves to get any sort of organised email campaign up and running?

sorry helena it just gets me when people dont know what their talking about but your wright i wont be rising to anymore ignorant comments

Ashtown on Joe Duffy NOW.

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