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Am I paying rent to often?

  • 30-04-2012 5:05pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I have moved into a new place and I am a bit stumped by the way the landlady is working out the rent.

    The place is €500 per month.

    She wanted paying weekly at €125 per week. €500 per month works out at €115 does it not?

    So I paid my first rent the other day ( after deposit and month ahead had passed) I paid her the €500 in one go. She has marked next rent day down as 4 weeks away, and then every 4 weeks after that. I am sure this is not right to pay a months rent every 4 weeks. This means in a year I pay 13 rents instead of 12. This cannot be correct can it?

    I work out my rent on €500 x 12 months / 52 weeks= €115

    Every 4 weeks works out as 52 weeks / 4 = 13 monthly payments of €500

    I am sure she is in the wrong here but I needed to run it passed you guys in case I am being a complete doo-doo and have missed something stupid!

    Thanks for your help


«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    If the landlord quoted the rent as monthly then you should pay monthly.

    They're trying to pull a fast one.

    If you moved in on the 25th for example you should pay one month's rent on the 25th of every month.

    Are you paying in cash? Did they supply you with a rent book?

    I would suggest you get their bank details and pay into their account so there's a record.


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭Maglight


    The key point here is what is in your rental contract. If it specifies a monthly payment then you are correct. If it specifies that rent is payable every four weeks then she is correct. Check the contract


  • Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭peter_dublin


    Rent should be taken as "per calendar month" that is the four weeks and additional days that make up a calendar month. I would raise it now saying a month is four weeks and so may days (two or three) and you will pay on the 25th of every "calender" month and not every four weeks. So yes they are chancing their arm or just stupid. But before you do anything check your contract.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    The key point here is what is in your rental contract. If it specifies a monthly payment then you are correct. If it specifies that rent is payable every four weeks then she is correct. Check the contract

    Thanks for replies. I just checked contract and it specifies a month is a 4 weekly period.

    So a months rent is really €540 and I aint got a leg to stand on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Sorry, wrong thread!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    500/4 is 125, OP

    I know thats what she wants, 500 a month is normally 115 but it seams I have not read small print:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Jelly 292 wrote: »
    Thanks for replies. I just checked contract and it specifies a month is a 4 weekly period.

    So a months rent is really €540 and I aint got a leg to stand on?

    Can they redefine the calendar in a contract?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    yeah the devils in the small print OP lesson learned for next time unfortunately no help now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    You go by the contract .unless you feel e deliberately misled you in negotiations?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    A month is a set period of time, no contract can change what a month means.

    If that was the case I could rent out a place say the rent is €100 per week and that my week is two days long.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    GarIT wrote: »
    A month is a set period of time no contract can change what a month means.

    If that was the case I could rent out a place say the rent is €100 per week and that my week is two days long.
    Read the thread?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    subway wrote: »
    Read the thread?

    I have done, and I'm saying there is not contract in Ireland that can change how long a month lasts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    I have done, and I'm saying there is not contract in Ireland that can change how long a month lasts.

    This is the nub, can they advertise saying its 500 per months and then charge 540 a month through their small print??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I think they were being deliberately misleading to make the place sound cheaper.

    Really the place is 541 euro per month not 500.

    You might be able to get out of the lease based on that. Possibly. You would need to talk to Threshold about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    You pay whatever it is in the contract when ever the contract says its to be paid, if you didnt read the small print and signed the contract thens its your bad...so check what the contract say if it says every four weeks the rent is due at 540 then thats what it is regardless of if this makes 13 payments in a year


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    You pay whatever it is in the contract when ever the contract says its to be paid, if you didnt read the small print and signed the contract thens its your bad...so check what the contract say if it says every four weeks the rent is due at 540 then thats what it is regardless of if this makes 13 payments in a year

    Why did they advertise as 500 p/m ? sure they may as well specify a month to be 3 weeks if they can get away with this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    Agreed but its up to you to read a contract before you sign it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    I assumed that this type of practice would be classed as illegal /against the rules/ basic tenant protection. I have to check the contract for redefinition of the concept of time??

    I've been renting 20 years and never run into this. Threshold for me so.
    Really takes any nice feeling out of the place


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    edellc wrote: »
    Agreed but its up to you to read a contract before you sign it

    Yes but there are certain things that a contract cannot override. I'm not sure if the defined length of a month is one. Threshold would not look kindly on this sort of practice though because even if it isn't legally problematic it's not acting in good faith.

    If they advertised the house on Daft say for 500 per month then redefining what a month is in the contract is dodgy dealings and designed to be deceptive. They should have advertised the weekly price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭Icepick


    edellc wrote: »
    You pay whatever it is in the contract when ever the contract says its to be paid, if you didnt read the small print and signed the contract thens its your bad...so check what the contract say if it says every four weeks the rent is due at 540 then thats what it is regardless of if this makes 13 payments in a year
    If the contract says that you pay 500 every 4 weeks, then OP cannot do anything.
    If it, however, states that you pay 500 a month and then that a month is 4 weeks, OP can do something about it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    Hi Icepick -
    If it, however, states that you pay 500 a month and then that a month is 4 weeks, OP can do something about it.

    Exactly what is on contract:

    Temporary letting agreement for *********,********,Co.Waterford.

    Monthly (four weekly) tenancy commencing **th March 2012 untill ** March 2013

    1. To pay rent of €500 per month which does not include bin tags etc ect


    What do you think?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    A month is a month, doesn't matter what the contract says. You can easily argue with her that if she had stipulated in the contract, after you had agreed to rent the property, that a month is 2 weeks long in terms of paying the rent then she would be completely in the wrong, like she is now.

    You took on a rental property based on the fact it was advertised as 500 per month. She can not then change what a month means be saying it is a 4 week period when it isn't.

    Don't be scared of her or her contract. Make her re-write the contract stating that you pay 500 euros 12 x per calendar year. You signed the contract under the understanding that a month is a month, end of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Jelly 292 wrote: »
    1. To pay rent of €500 per month

    This. That's what the contract says about payment, excluding ancilliary costs like bin tags and the like.


    Edit. Jelly, can you recall what the advert said? Did it mention Per Calendar Month or PCM against the rental price?

    By the sounds of it, the LL will claim €500 PCM to the revenue I'm sure too assuming PRTB registered ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    Thank Mr.Wemmick, that's a decent angle to come at when I ring tomorrow.
    It was advertised as 500, I accepted it as 500 and then the contract effectively made it 541 p/m


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    So in your opinion Lemming would you make that as 12 payments in a year?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    Edit. Jelly, can you recall what the advert said? Did it mention Per Calendar Month or PCM against the rental price?

    It was in local paper as 500 p/m as far as I recall, I do not have the add handy but there was not much info on it so I think it just said 500 per month. Will dig for that

    Cheers
    Jelly


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    In Ireland a month can be recognised as 30.4 days or the length of the current month i.e. a date in this month to the same numbered date in the next month. A month can never be any other length.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Jelly 292 wrote: »
    So in your opinion Lemming would you make that as 12 payments in a year?
    Jelly 292 wrote: »
    It was in local paper as 500 p/m as far as I recall, I do not have the add handy but there was not much info on it so I think it just said 500 per month. Will dig for that

    Cheers
    Jelly

    I'm not a legal expert, nor do I rent in the Irish market (UK instead), but personally speaking I'd be off to war over it. The LL appears to have been incredibly dishonest about the rental price and preying on ignorance to get away with it.

    As others have also said, the definition of a month cannot just be arbitrarily redefined like this. It's like signing a contract stating that the other party can kill you if they feel like it; it still doesn't make it legal with your name in ink against whatever it says.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Jelly 292


    Sound, thanks all. Will calm down and give her call in the morning, will get onto threshold also. fingers crossed . Thanks for all the replies.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    When you're talking to her make sure to make use of phrases such as, "And as you know a contract can't redefine the length of a month." - it allows them to back down easier and say "oh of course."


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