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Help wanted with 19th century emigrants to the USA

  • 14-02-2015 8:11pm
    #1
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭


    Guys and gals I need some help if I may be so bold to ask. I'm flummoxed! I've spent the last few days seeking the whereabouts in the States of 3 brothers from Co. Monaghan who emigrated sometime after 1880, we're not sure when exactly. They were:

    Michael b. Clontibret, 1863; Thomas, b. Clontibret, 1867; James b. Clontibret, 1869. Parents were Owen McGuigan and Margaret née McNaughten. Another son, Francis, stayed in Ireland and married here.

    One of them married (don't know which) whilst the other two stayed single. All 3 died and were buried in the US. Two are supposed to be buried in the Calvary cemetery New York, same grave. I'm assuming the other is with his wife. We think or rather are pretty sure they lived their entire lives in New York state, nearly sure actually that it was New York city.

    One of the emigrants had a son - Francis J. He was sent to Ireland as a boy and can be found here in the 1901 census as a 6 year old American-born boy:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Monaghan/Castleshane/Annaseeragh/1634540/

    He returned to the States before the next census. I looked in the 1901 census for a father who may have been with him but no joy.

    I've tried all the US census and naturalisation records on Ancestry for the brothers and came up short. I can't find a birth cert for Francis J.


    I've tried Familysearch but I'm not very experienced or confident with it.

    Can anyone help, see if you can find anything?

    Oh, one last thing. Francis J McGuigan, the little boy in 1901, went on to marry in the States and have a daughter named Anna, again born in New York. I've tried looking for his marriage and her birth, and the two together in a census but again nothing seems concrete.

    Thanks all.


Comments

  • #2
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I wonder is this Francis J, the birth year is slightly off from the census but worth investigating

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDT7-GCM


  • #3
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    I've picked up on a Francis Naughton in the 1900 federal census who has potential. Correct age, living in Brooklyn, father is Thomas who is of the approx. correct age and born in Ireland.

    The next step I would take is go back from that point in the Brooklyn City Directories, for two reasons: (i) try and pinpoint him (Thomas) in the 1893 edition so you can then pick him up in the 1892 New York State Census, (ii) try and find him for the years around when Francis was born so you'll have an address and can then work out the Catholic parish and get his baptism cert. 1892 census is on Familysearch; Brooklyn returns are available but Manhattan returns were destroyed.

    For the city directories, use Fold3 (has all years), Ancestry (not sure of their coverage), or LDS/NYPL microfilms.
    It's recorded on the census form that they are married for 15 years. I had a look myself in the 1892 census but nothing stood out. I've also tried the birth and marriage indexes but no luck.

    I'll do a bit more digging later.


  • #4
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Thank you both, much appreciated. I haven't time to look into them now but will do so in about 2 hours.

    I'd hoped you'd see this coolnabacky, this is right up your alley. I never thought of street directories! :o I'd tried the 1892 census on Ancestry but couldn't see anything that fitted. I'll follow up your post asap.


  • #5
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I wonder is this Francis J, the birth year is slightly off from the census but worth investigating

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDT7-GCM


    I had seen this actually and wondered if we could find a civil or church marriage for Michael and Bridget. Would that have Michael's father on it, named Owen? Or Michael's birthplace of Monaghan? It's certainly a good possibility.


  • #6
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »
    I've picked up on a Francis Naughton in the 1900 federal census who has potential. Correct age, living in Brooklyn, father is Thomas who is of the approx. correct age and born in Ireland.

    The next step I would take is go back from that point in the Brooklyn City Directories, for two reasons: (i) try and pinpoint him (Thomas) in the 1893 edition so you can then pick him up in the 1892 New York State Census, (ii) try and find him for the years around when Francis was born so you'll have an address and can then work out the Catholic parish and get his baptism cert. 1892 census is on Familysearch; Brooklyn returns are available but Manhattan returns were destroyed.

    McGuigan is such a hard name to find, it was misdocumented so much eg McGoohan or McSwiggan.

    I tried searching the censuses for 2 of the 3 or all 3 at the same address but no joy. I'll try the censuses and directories again.

    When you say the Manhattan returns were destroyed do you mean the 1892 census or parish records? Sorry, bit confused there.


    I found two entries for graves in Holy Cross Cemetery, not far from Calvary cemetery, for both a James and a Michael. I've ruled out the former due to his age but the latter seems possible, b and d unknown. I'll contact the cemeteries for further details.

    What about Naturalisation records coolnabacky, are they available? Do they give detailed home and parental details?


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  • #7
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    mod9maple wrote: »
    I had seen this actually and wondered if we could find a civil or church marriage for Michael and Bridget. Would that have Michael's father on it, named Owen? Or Michael's birthplace of Monaghan? It's certainly a good possibility.

    A while back I ordered a marriage record through Family Search which fortunately contained the names of both sets of parents with maiden names.

    69yxRJ.jpg

    I had a thread about it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #8
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    mod9maple wrote: »
    When you say the Manhattan returns were destroyed do you mean the 1892 census or parish records? Sorry, bit confused there.

    What about Naturalisation records coolnabacky, are they available? Do they give detailed home and parental details?

    Sorry, yeah, Manhattan 1892 census records. All Catholic parish registers are available.

    Pre-1906 Naturalization records for NYC can be quite basic. There was no standardized forms for different jurisdictions so can get different info. The ones I've seen do not have parents' names (as it was not asked for) or an Irish county. Where they can be useful is with the witness. It can often be a sibling or someone else for the Irish village/parish who came to the US before them and could vouch for them. Ancestry has an index search, as do theggg.org and italiangen.org.

    Familysearch and Ancestry have digitized some but a lot are still in the courts where the person was naturalized.

    Note: Manhattan is in the southern district, Brooklyn in the eastern district, if they were naturalization at a Federal court. They might also have gone to a NY State court.
    Hermy wrote: »
    A while back I ordered a marriage record through Family Search which fortunately contained the names of both sets of parents with maiden names.

    You hit the jackpot with that one Hermy, parents and Irish county. Very rare to get the Irish county. The BMD's can be really hit or miss. You'll often not get parents' names, or sometimes just get the father's name.


  • #9
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    Ancestry has a database, UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960, you might pick up young Francis coming back to Ireland.


  • #10
    Hermy
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »
    You hit the jackpot with that one Hermy, parents and Irish county. Very rare to get the Irish county. The BMD's can be really hit or miss. You'll often not get parents' names, or sometimes just get the father's name.

    We really did - surnames, maiden names and county.
    Sometimes the Irish records aren't as straightforward as that!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #11
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    mod9maple wrote: »
    I found two entries for graves in Holy Cross Cemetery, not far from Calvary cemetery, for both a James and a Michael.

    Generally, the Manhattan Irish were buried in Calvary and the Brooklyn Irish in Holy Cross.


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  • #12
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    I can't help but wonder why the little 6 year-old boy, Francis J, was sent to Ireland? A single parent struggling to cope? I found a page in the 1897 Brooklyn street directory (see post below) that lists, albeit at different addresses, a James and a Michael McGuigan and an Ann McGuigan, widow of Thomas. Could Ann and Thomas be Francis J's parents? Remember Francis went on to have a daughter called Ann. Named her after his mother? Any way of getting a parish baptism record for Francis J? I must examine that Familysearch link Hermy, thanks for that.

    If Francis J was sent back to the US between 1901-1911 he'd have gone through Ellis island right? Need to check that. I'll also double check the 1892 Brooklyn census and the 1900 federal census for the three listed in the street directory. What about a death cert for Thomas? Are state and/or federal death records online?

    Phew it's tough going this...


  • #13
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    McGuigan Amelia, wid. Hugh, h 148 Grand
    " Ann, wid. Thos. h 995 Dean
    " H'y, motorman, 11 '272 Wyckoff av
    " Hugh, bookkpr., h 40 Cheever pl
    " Jas. fireman h 34 Willow pI
    " Jas. real estate, 2790 Fulton, h 93 Van Sicklen Ave
    " John, h 344 17th
    " John F. contractor, h 327 Ewen
    " Michl, driver, h 163 Walworth'


  • #14
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    mod9maple wrote: »
    1. I can't help but wonder why the little 6 year-old boy, Francis J, was sent to Ireland? A single parent struggling to cope?

    2. Any way of getting a parish baptism record for Francis J? I must examine that Familysearch link Hermy, thanks for that.

    3. If Francis J was sent back to the US between 1901-1911 he'd have gone through Ellis island right?

    4. What about a death cert for Thomas? Are state and/or federal death records online?

    Phew it's tough going this...

    1. Yes, most likely because one or both parents died.
    2. Use address that you find and search on google maps for nearest Catholic parish
    3. Yes, Ellis Island opened in 1892.
    4. NYC death certs are not online but the indexes are. Italiangen.org and theggg.org have free access to indexes.

    Can you explain the two surnames being used, McNaughton and McGuigan? Was Francis given that McGuigan name when he went to Ireland?


  • #15
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »

    Can you explain the two surnames being used, McNaughton and McGuigan? Was Francis given that McGuigan name when he went to Ireland?


    Thanks for all that, you're help is very much appreciated.

    As for the latter question (I've edited my post) - don't get mad please but that's an error on my part. McNaughten is Margaret's maiden name. Sorry! :o


  • #16
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    No worries, was just about to post that that Naughton 1900 census is not relevant as I picked them up in the 1905 NY State Census

    I think the 1900 census entry I found is not relevant.
    There is an entry in the 1902 Brooklyn Directory for:
    McNaughton, Francis, Engineer, h[ome] 1236 Bedford av.
    (name is different than the Thomas on the 1900 census doc, but most likely the same person)
    This family shows up in the 1905 NY State Census, all alive and well, with more children added.


  • #17
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I wonder is this Francis J, the birth year is slightly off from the census but worth investigating

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDT7-GCM

    I would definitely follow up on this.

    This should be it in the index of births -
    McGuigan
    Francis
    Jul 25
    1893
    [Cert Number] 30534
    Manhattan


  • #18
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    I'm pretty sure I've found Michael in 2 separate New York city censuses and Francis J, married with a daughter Ann in 1930, again in New York. The details all fit. At the very least they're strong leads and worth investigating. :)


  • #19
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Wyldwood wrote: »
    I wonder is this Francis J, the birth year is slightly off from the census but worth investigating

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDT7-GCM

    A surname of McAight? That doesn't seem right. Anyone any ideas what that should be?


  • #20
    Wyldwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    I'd guess it's a mistranscription. You would need to see the original, I wonder if Ancestry has it?


  • #21
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    Yeah, most likely an incorrect transcription. I had a quick look at the 1901 Irish census and there is a name McCraight found in Antrim. 'a' could become 'cr', but who knows what it could be. The only way to get the original certificate is from the NYC Municipal Archives ($15) or an LDS microfilm ($7.50).

    It's worth getting also for the address and occupation info...and the slim, slim change it'll have an Irish county.


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  • #22
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    Coolnabacky1873 wrote: »
    Yeah, most likely an incorrect transcription. I had a quick look at the 1901 Irish census and there is a name McCraight found in Antrim. 'a' could become 'cr', but who knows what it could be. The only way to get the original certificate is from the NYC Municipal Archives ($15) or an LDS microfilm ($7.50).

    It's worth getting also for the address and occupation info...and the slim, slim change it'll have an Irish county.

    I'm on it. Thanks again guys, I appreciate the help and input. I learned a lot which is true of most threads on here; I never stop learning.


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