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Automatic car hire

  • 06-06-2013 2:27pm
    #1
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭


    Hi All,
    I regularly rent cars in Ireland. I need an automatic due to a physical problem.

    I understand that autos cost a little more to buy and may cost more to hire as a consequence. However, the extra cost to hire an automatic car is just plain thievery! To hire a compact manual for the first week of July is €150 while the same class auto is €350. If this was all down to the extra purchase price it would mean that it costs circa €40,000 to specify automatic on a family car.

    Also, the autos on a hire fleet are usually older as they are kept on longer. The registration year for 3 of the 4 cars I have hired this year have been 2010 with 1 at 2011. Most cars in the compounds of hire companies are 2012 or 2013 reg.

    So, in short, it costs well more than twice as much to rent an older auto. This doesn't seem right. Is there a body tasked to oversee the car hire industry? This seems like extreme profiteering to me. It would also tarnish the reputation of Ireland abroad. I don't know if this scam carries on in other countries, but hiring an auto in The States is just normal.

    All of the hire companies seem to have the same level of penalty for daring to ask for an auto. I have mailed one of them to see what they say. No reply as yet. I have also mailed the Car Rental Council of Ireland about this. Guess what... no reply as yet.


Comments

  • #2
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    I doubt you'd get anywhere but perhaps an angle could be discrimination?


  • #3
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    There's usually a significant cost differential between purchasing automatics and manuals, automatics are generally only of interest to Americans who tend to come for short breaks in the summer or March, the hire company has to keep the vehicle in stock for the whole year, this has a cost.

    Why not just buy a second hand one?


  • #4
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Hire companies sees auto as a less common option, and they get the extra money for it, hence the extra price.
    It's a supply and demand market, if more people would ask for autos they would purchase more and the price to rent would be lower.

    On the other hand, try to rent a stick shift in the states :D


  • #5
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    There's usually a significant cost differential between purchasing automatics and manuals, automatics are generally only of interest to Americans who tend to come for short breaks in the summer or March, the hire company has to keep the vehicle in stock for the whole year, this has a cost.

    Why not just buy a second hand one?
    There may be a cost differential, but it's not €40,000 extra for an automatic family car.

    All of the autos I've hired have quite a bit of mileage on them. Last week I had a 2010 Focus with 70,000 miles (yes miles) on the clock. It didn't get to that mileage sitting in stock.

    I wonder why a 2010 Focus has a speedo displaying MPH and not KPH.... but that's another discussion.

    I wouldn't have a place to leave one if I bought it, and the insurance would be a problem. Not to mention tax. I hire for about 10 weeks per year.


  • #6
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    Gosub wrote: »
    There may be a cost differential, but it's not €40,000 extra for an automatic family car.

    All of the autos I've hired have quite a bit of mileage on them. Last week I had a 2010 Focus with 70,000 miles (yes miles) on the clock. It didn't get to that mileage sitting in stock.

    I wonder why a 2010 Focus has a speedo displaying MPH and not KPH.... but that's another discussion.

    I wouldn't have a place to leave one if I bought it, and the insurance would be a problem. Not to mention tax. I hire for about 10 weeks per year.

    Probably from the UK.


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  • #7
    7ofBrian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭7ofBrian


    Rental cars are generally driven, well, Like rentals!. Maintenance on an automatic gearbox is 3/4 times more expensive than a manual. Rental companies spend a fortune looking after their fleet and autos are the biggest expense.


  • #8
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Gosub wrote: »
    There may be a cost differential, but it's not €40,000 extra for an automatic family car.

    All of the autos I've hired have quite a bit of mileage on them. Last week I had a 2010 Focus with 70,000 miles (yes miles) on the clock. It didn't get to that mileage sitting in stock.

    I wonder why a 2010 Focus has a speedo displaying MPH and not KPH.... but that's another discussion.

    I wouldn't have a place to leave one if I bought it, and the insurance would be a problem. Not to mention tax. I hire for about 10 weeks per year.

    You do know your 40k figure is rubbish, you can't multiply a €200 per week differential by 52 or whatever and come up with that. As pointed out by others the maintenance costs are higher for autos, there are fewer of them.

    There is no obligation that you have to be hired a car at a price that you're happy with.


  • #9
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    LowKeyReturn wrote: »
    Probably from the UK.
    But it was registered in Ireland in 2010. The number on the plate doesn't indicate an import. I just thought it was strange since Ireland has had KPH limits since January 2005.


  • #10
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    7ofBrian wrote: »
    Rental cars are generally driven, well, Like rentals!. Maintenance on an automatic gearbox is 3/4 times more expensive than a manual. Rental companies spend a fortune looking after their fleet and autos are the biggest expense.

    Easy to say. But the auto box is harder to thrash than a manual, so is less likely to suffer hooliganism. It should easily keep in good shape for the rental life of the car.

    I'd love to see some figures to back up your assertions.


  • #11
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    You do know your 40k figure is rubbish, you can't multiply a €200 per week differential by 52 or whatever and come up with that. As pointed out by others the maintenance costs are higher for autos, there are fewer of them.

    There is no obligation that you have to be hired a car at a price that you're happy with.

    Ya, but that's not what I did to come to the figure. And I know it's not representative of anything. Taking the extra purchase cost of an auto into account to justify the extra charge is clearly not arguable. IMO neither is the extra service costs of an auto box.

    Your last sentence is a bit odd. I have to hire an auto due to my condition. All the rental companies penalise the auto hirer with up to 3 times the charge. Why should anyone be happy with that?


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  • #12
    mdebets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭mdebets


    The rental price of the car is only partially dependent on the total cost of the car to the car rental company. More important is, they charge what the customer is willing to pay and it seems the customer is willing to pay more than double the price for an automatic car, so the rental company is charging this price. If you are not willing to pay that price, don't rent the car.

    On a side note. As you are renting on a regular basis, have you tried and approach one of the smaller rental companies, to see if you can try and make a deal with them, so that they give you a cheaper price for a guaranteed usage of x weeks in the year.


  • #13
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    To be honest I would have thought this was down to high demand from americans for automatics in the summer months, but having just checked I see that in November the price differential is the same.


  • #14
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


  • #15
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    mdebets wrote: »
    The rental price of the car is only partially dependent on the total cost of the car to the car rental company. More important is, they charge what the customer is willing to pay and it seems the customer is willing to pay more than double the price for an automatic car, so the rental company is charging this price. If you are not willing to pay that price, don't rent the car.
    I have little choice but to rent a car and I have no choice other than an auto, for reasons stated above. Most of my rental driving is deep country, so public transport isn't a viable option.

    It looks like they can charge what they want, or what the market supports. But is the market free or is it managed? It's just a bit odd that all the rental companies have the same price differential. Smacks of price-fixing to me. I would love to see the figures that support a 3X price hike. I don't suppose they will be forthcoming from the rental industry... I have asked.

    I suppose as it's only a minority problem there will be little sympathy. If the price-fixing related to fuel costs there would be more of an outcry I'd imagine.


  • #16
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Never thought of that one. How would the insurance work? I have no insurance in Ireland to transfer.


  • #17
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


  • #18
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Gosub wrote: »
    Easy to say. But the auto box is harder to thrash than a manual, so is less likely to suffer hooliganism. It should easily keep in good shape for the rental life of the car.

    I'd love to see some figures to back up your assertions.

    Automatics are the ideal rental car as they cannot be thrashed like manuals are. Ireland is a total and complete rip-off for renting a car anyway.


  • #19
    7ofBrian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭7ofBrian


    Here... save some money...
    http://www.carzone.ie/search/results?searchsource=finder&nParam=285%2B322&channel=CARS&cacheBuster=137055206267969#nParam=200590%2B200254%2B285%2B318&sortby=p_VehiclePriceEUR|1&channel=CARS&currency=EUROS&searchResultsView=THUMBNAIL&maxrows=30&page=1


  • #20
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Autos sit up most of the year not being rented, except for the few requests; and then are mostly only popular in the smallest sizes (for cost - car hire in Europe is far dearer than the US although Ireland is one of the cheaper countries) with tourists in the summer.

    A larger auto will likely be the least rented car on the lot. 70000 miles on a 2010 isn't very much - a 2010 hire car will have had two full summers and generally they do far higher mileage than private cars as they're only rented for intensive use. Indeed there wouldn't be many 2010 hirecars left.

    This means they need to charge more to make the car pay for itself.


  • #21
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,855 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Gosub wrote: »
    Hi All,
    I regularly rent cars in Ireland. I need an automatic due to a physical problem.

    I understand that autos cost a little more to buy and may cost more to hire as a consequence. However, the extra cost to hire an automatic car is just plain thievery! To hire a compact manual for the first week of July is €150 while the same class auto is €350. If this was all down to the extra purchase price it would mean that it costs circa €40,000 to specify automatic on a family car.

    Also, the autos on a hire fleet are usually older as they are kept on longer. The registration year for 3 of the 4 cars I have hired this year have been 2010 with 1 at 2011. Most cars in the compounds of hire companies are 2012 or 2013 reg.

    So, in short, it costs well more than twice as much to rent an older auto. This doesn't seem right. Is there a body tasked to oversee the car hire industry? This seems like extreme profiteering to me. It would also tarnish the reputation of Ireland abroad. I don't know if this scam carries on in other countries, but hiring an auto in The States is just normal.

    All of the hire companies seem to have the same level of penalty for daring to ask for an auto. I have mailed one of them to see what they say. No reply as yet. I have also mailed the Car Rental Council of Ireland about this. Guess what... no reply as yet.

    Your hiring a vehicle which doesn't get much usage, 70k km on a 3 year old car is tiny for a hire car. So while a manual can recoup the cost of purchase over a year an auto takes 3 years. If they where hiring enough auto's then they'd all be 131 or 12 like the manuals. They aren't so the cost to rent it has to be more to cover the cost of having it.
    Stinicker wrote: »
    Automatics are the ideal rental car as they cannot be thrashed like manuals are.
    Gosub wrote: »
    Easy to say. But the auto box is harder to thrash than a manual, so is less likely to suffer hooliganism.

    It's as easy to destroy an auto box as a manual and all rental cars get abuse, the difference is that auto boxes are more expensive to repair.
    Stinicker wrote: »
    Ireland is a total and complete rip-off for renting a car anyway.

    No it isn't.


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  • #22
    Gosub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭Gosub


    I finally received a reply from the Car Rental Council of Ireland. Interestingly, they say that there are a limited number of autos on fleet and demand is high. This makes the argument that they sit around unused a little redundant.

    The CRCI say that the rental companies ask high rental prices for autos because there is more demand than supply. Why don't they buy more autos then?


  • #23
    Big C
    Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭Big C


    TRy hiring an auto with hand controls,
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61661534

    this put manners on the car hire bussiness


  • #24
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Gosub wrote: »
    I finally received a reply from the Car Rental Council of Ireland. Interestingly, they say that there are a limited number of autos on fleet and demand is high. This makes the argument that they sit around unused a little redundant.

    The CRCI say that the rental companies ask high rental prices for autos because there is more demand than supply. Why don't they buy more autos then?

    Because the demand is extremely, extremely seasonal and they sit on lots unused all winter.

    As said before, 70k on a 2010 hire car is extremely low - that car has sat unused for most of its life.
    Big C wrote: »
    TRy hiring an auto with hand controls,
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61661534

    this put manners on the car hire bussiness

    That'll be even dearer again.


  • #25
    ScottSF
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ScottSF


    Once I tried to hire an automatic car and the one I had "reserved" was not yet returned as expected. If you recall from an episode of Seinfeld, car rental companies know how to TAKE a reservation but don't know how to HOLD one. So the only option was to accept a manual car (at a reduced rate of course) which fortunately my wife was able to drive (a stick). I only knew how to drive an automatic at the time.

    Interestingly enough, driver's licenses from the USA do not specify whether the driver is able and licensed to drive a manual or automatic (or both). There is no distinction. I think it is reasonable to guess that at least half of Americans do not know how to drive a manual car. Are they forced to learn on the spot when visiting places like Ireland or do they pay the higher priced and hope an automatic car is available when they arrive? I have to believe demand is high during the prime tourist season.

    I do agree that car hire prices in Ireland are typically more expensive than most other European countries. The only reason I can think of is that tourists often return them scratched and banged up from driving along narrow country roads in the West.

    Now it would be wonderful if there was a combination car that works in your choice of manual and automatic mode. Problem solved!


  • #26
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Gosub wrote: »
    I have little choice but to rent a car and I have no choice other than an auto, for reasons stated above. Most of my rental driving is deep country, so public transport isn't a viable option.

    It looks like they can charge what they want, or what the market supports. But is the market free or is it managed? It's just a bit odd that all the rental companies have the same price differential. Smacks of price-fixing to me. I would love to see the figures that support a 3X price hike. I don't suppose they will be forthcoming from the rental industry... I have asked.

    I suppose as it's only a minority problem there will be little sympathy. If the price-fixing related to fuel costs there would be more of an outcry I'd imagine.

    If you think there is price-fixing or a cartel in operation you should make a complaint to somewhere with some power rather than people on here, I myself am all powerful but have no role in relation to price-fixing.
    ScottSF wrote: »
    Once I tried to hire an automatic car and the one I had "reserved" was not yet returned as expected. If you recall from an episode of Seinfeld, car rental companies know how to TAKE a reservation but don't know how to HOLD one. So the only option was to accept a manual car (at a reduced rate of course) which fortunately my wife was able to drive (a stick). I only knew how to drive an automatic at the time.

    Interestingly enough, driver's licenses from the USA do not specify whether the driver is able and licensed to drive a manual or automatic (or both). There is no distinction. I think it is reasonable to guess that at least half of Americans do not know how to drive a manual car. Are they forced to learn on the spot when visiting places like Ireland or do they pay the higher priced and hope an automatic car is available when they arrive? I have to believe demand is high during the prime tourist season.

    I do agree that car hire prices in Ireland are typically more expensive than most other European countries. The only reason I can think of is that tourists often return them scratched and banged up from driving along narrow country roads in the West.

    Now it would be wonderful if there was a combination car that works in your choice of manual and automatic mode. Problem solved!

    I think Ireland is one of the cheapest places to hire a car (apart from automatics) a colleague hired a car for 4 days a few weeks ago for a golf trip - the cost of which was less than the hire of a buggy at one of the courses! €34 vs €35, couldn't believe it when I heard the price, was a skoda fabia from one of the companies at the airport.


  • #27
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ScottSF wrote: »
    I do agree that car hire prices in Ireland are typically more expensive than most other European countries.

    Have you hired in other European countries or are you guessing?

    Because I have, in the UK, Denmark, Germany and Slovakia and Ireland was significantly cheaper than *all* of them. Same company (Hertz) in every one.

    You can't compare auto prices in a country where everyone bar a tiny few drive shift with prices elsewhere. Manual transmission rental here is extremely cheap.


  • #28
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    7ofBrian wrote: »
    Rental cars are generally driven, well, Like rentals!. Maintenance on an automatic gearbox is 3/4 times more expensive than a manual. Rental companies spend a fortune looking after their fleet and autos are the biggest expense.

    Automatic transmissions are not 3/4 times more expensive to maintain. I'd imagine over a rentals car life they would actually save money as no clutch has to be replaced.


  • #29
    sandin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭sandin


    €150 for a week for a compact manual in july seems extremely cheap. - possibly this is where the issue is?
    Autos would also be dearer as they are not rented as often and the overall cost of the vehicle is spread between a lower number of hire weeks.


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