Dermot Ahern Announces First Towns For Group Broadband Scheme

viking · 20-07-2004 2:09pm #1

Dermot Ahern Announces First Towns For Group Broadband Scheme

Kinnegad, Kilbeggan and Gweedore Sign Up
Dublin, Tuesday 20 July 2004
Dermot Ahern T.D., Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources today announced the first three locations to benefit from the Governments €25 million Group Broadband Scheme to deliver high-speed broadband into our smaller communities over three years.

The first locations to sign-up are Kilbeggan and Kinnegad, Co Westmeath and Gweedore in Co Donegal. Representatives from the three towns met with the Minister in Dublin today where details were released on the grant-aid and technology which will be used. Both Kinnegad and Kilbeggan will access broadband via wireless technology while Gweedore will utilise a combination of satellite and wireless.

The Minister said further small towns and villages with populations of less than 1,500 will be announced in the coming weeks. Applications are currently being processed by his Departments staff.

Minister Ahern said: This is an historic day for the small towns and villages of Ireland. With the advent of the broadband revolution, as Minister responsible for communications I always said I was not going to preside over the haves and have-nots, the so called digital divide. Todays occasion provides every other small town, village or rural area with proof that they can benefit from broadband also.

Ireland is full of vibrant, small communities which are seen not to provide the critical mass required for private sector delivery of broadband. But with the help of Government we can deliver broadband to these communities and thereby sustain jobs locally and benefit business and consumers.

The new scheme is open to all smaller and rural communities of less then 1,500 people. It will empower local communities to draw up and implement their own broadband plans either on their own, or in partnership with broadband service providers. In the case of Co. Westmeath two local community groups are the driving force while in Donegal, the local Chamber of Commerce and Udaras na Gaeltachta have led the way. The Government provides 55% capital funding - the maximum allowable under EU rules.

ENDS

Objectives of Group Broadband Scheme
The widespread availability of high-speed, affordable, flat-rate, always-on internet access, referred to as broadband, is central to the development of Ireland as a knowledge and information society. The availability of broadband will enable individuals and communities to take advantage of the internet and enhanced communications links and associated economic and social benefits. Broadband services will reduce the peripherality of many communities in Ireland and lead to improved employment opportunities, enhance the sustainability of those communities and create a more positive environment for investment.

At present, broadband services are being rolled out in Ireland by private broadband internet service providers such as telecoms companies, cable TV companies, wireless and satellite operators and internet service providers (ISPs). Experience suggests, however, that broadband services tend to focus mainly on cities and large towns. Small, rural or more remote communities must often wait longer for broadband investment. This trend runs counter to the balanced development.

The Government has approved a national Group Broadband Scheme to address broadband needs in under-served areas. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, in launching the first call under this scheme, wishes to empower smaller communities to take the initiative to arrange for the provision of broadband services for themselves. The first call represents the first phase of a national Group Broadband Scheme, which will be implemented over three years.

First Group Broadband Projects

Kilbeggan
Area covered: Kilbeggan
Population 652, Business 30
Parties Involved:
ISP - Last Mile Wireless http://www.lastmile.ie/
Community Group - South Westmeath Employment Education and Training Services Ltd. - http://www.sweets.ie/
Grant aid: €21,945
Aid Rate: 55%
Technology Used: Wireless
Residential: 512 Kbps download, 128 Kbps upload, 48:1 contention ratio
Business: 512 Kbps download, 512 Kbps upload, 48:1 contention ratio
512 Kbps download, 512 Kbps upload, 20:1 contention ratio
1 Mbps download, 1 Mbps upload, 20:1 contention ratio
1 Mbps download, 1 Mbps upload, 5:1 contention ratio

Kinnegad
Area covered: Kinnegad
Population 1296, Businesses 30
Parties Involved:
ISP - Last Mile Wireless http://www.lastmile.ie/
Community Group - Broadband4kinnegad - http://www.broadband4kinnegad.com/
Grant aid: €31,625
Aid Rate: 55%
Technology Used: Fixed Wireless
Residential: 512 Kbps download, 128 Kbps upload, 48:1 contention ratio
Business: 512 Kbps download, 512 Kbps upload, 48:1 contention ratio
512 Kbps download, 512 Kbps upload, 20:1 contention ratio
1 Mbps download, 1 Mbps upload, 20:1 contention ratio
1 Mbps download, 1 Mbps upload, 5:1 contention ratio

Gaoth Dobhair
Areas Covered: Gaoth Dobhair; Ardnagappary, Bunbeag, Derrybeg, Lunniagh, Magheracloghar, Magheragallon, Stramachilmartin and Stranacorcragh.
Area Population: 1388
Parties Involved:
ISP - Ildana Teoranta - http://www.ildana.ie/
Community Groups - Gaoth Dobhair Chamber of Commerce and Udaras na Gaeltachta (http://www.udaras.ie/)
Grant aid sought: €12,529
Aid Rate: 55%
Technology: Fixed Wireless Satellite
Residential: 2 Mbps download, 2 Mbps upload, 45:1 contention ratio
Business: 2 Mbps download, 2 Mbps upload, 20:1 contention ratio

damien · 20-07-2004 2:17pm

Congrats Viking !

viking · 20-07-2004 3:14pm

Thanks Damien.

Not long back from meeting with the Minister.

Looking forward to using broadband in Kinnegad.

Hopefully the service should be set up shortly, I believe equipment is on order and a number of possible base station sites have been identified and which will be followed up on over the next few weeks.

Gareth

Poz3D · 20-07-2004 3:19pm

Congratulations Gareth! Finally Kinnegad gets broadband

How many years has it been since you set up your website?

jwt · 20-07-2004 3:22pm

Fantastic Gareth,

Well done for hanging in there and achieving your goals.

Great for a campaign that lasted less than twelve months.

Just goes to show what perseverance and dedication can do!

Once again well done

John

spongebob · 20-07-2004 3:24pm

Originally posted by viking
Not long back from meeting with the Minister.

You unctous person.

Congrats on being in the first tranche of projects , it shows what a committed local group can do .

Gweedore is a MOST interesting case.

1. It has a MAN, it was included in the original 19 towns.

2. It has DSL ..........ALREADY....... the Bunbeg exchange has been live for a month.

3. Now it gets €12.5k of Comms money to put in a ****ty VSAT backhaul system when they could get a 2Mbit DSL line instead ................

A bit of joined up thinking would not go amiss, did anybody bother to tell the Minister that Eircom got €90k of taxpayers money to DSL enable the Bunbeg exchange ?

M

DonegalMan · 20-07-2004 3:32pm

Originally posted by Muck
A bit of joined up thinking would not go amiss, did anybody bother to tell the Minister that Eircom got €90k of taxpayers money to DSL enable the Bunbeg exchange ?M

A perfect example of the sort of thing I was referring to in my 'Politics' post in the "Where Now For IrelandOffline" thread!

Nevertheless, congrats to the people involved in these projects.

I have reservations about GDS as a mainstream solution mainly because I think that comparitively few areas will produce the people with the knowledge and commitment to bring these about. These groups, however, have shown that if you get such people, it is indeed possible.

Well done, everyone involved.

Martin Harran

viking · 20-07-2004 3:32pm

Originally posted by Muck
You unctous person.

Nah, not unctuous just happy.:)

SkepticOne · 20-07-2004 6:42pm

Kinnegad and the other towns mentioned were funded from the government's Group Broadband Scheme. The funding here is not restricted to community owned and run networks such as the one in Knockmore.

Even Eircom could recieve funding through this scheme if they enabled an exchange in an eligable areas (though I think they need to do some fixing of cable first

) It is not restricted to any particular platform.

With schemes such as this in place, I think Eircom would be well advised to have another look at their "trigger level" figures which were recently exposed by Eircomtribunal on the ComWreck site.

In the case of Kinnegad, 84% of households would have had to 'vote' for broadband. Totally unrealistic.

Great work by Gareth Pelly in workingwith LastMile and DCMNR and also in building up sufficient numbers.

Although people have their opinions on wireless vs other forms of broadband, what needs to be remembered is that schemes such as this put an enourmous amount of pressure on Eircom. I would not be surprised if Eircom came slinking in to upgrade the Kinnegad exchange in the hopes of holding on to some customers now that they have a bit of competition in that town for the first time.

damien · 20-07-2004 6:54pm

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I would not be surprised if Eircom came slinking in to upgrade the Kinnegad exchange in the hopes of holding on to some customers now that they have a bit of competition in that town for the first time.

Knockmore and Kinnegad should be trumpeted for their ability to stick it to the man (Eircom). It proves how much the people want broadband and how Eircom's bull about trigger levels doesn't work.

The very best of luck to them. Gareth, you've just volunteered yourself to do a presentation at the EGM.

viking · 20-07-2004 7:03pm

Originally posted by SkepticOne
In the case of Kinnegad, 84% of households would have had to 'vote' for broadband. Totally unrealistic.

...schemes such as this put an enourmous amount of pressure on Eircom. I would not be surprised if Eircom came slinking in to upgrade the Kinnegad exchange in the hopes of holding on to some customers now that they have a bit of competition in that town for the first time.

This thought did cross my mind, but if eircom did this then they would be making idiots out of the people of Kinnegad after denying them broadband for so long and then suddenly upgrading the exchange when a bit of competition came along! They currently require 304 account holders to sign up to make it viable in Kinnegad, at the moment there are 11 account holders registered on the dsltrigger.eircom.ie site, surely 11 households won't make a DSL service viable??

If it does, then there are going to be a lot of people around Ireland expecting their local exchange to be upgraded...

Gareth

SkepticOne · 20-07-2004 7:33pm

Originally posted by viking
This thought did cross my mind, but if eircom did this then they would be making idiots out of the people of Kinnegad after denying them broadband for so long and then suddenly upgrading the exchange when a bit of competition came along!

I think they would be making bigger idiots out of themselves, tbh, but they seem to be remarkably resiliant in this regard.

They currently require 304 account holders to sign up to make it viable in Kinnegad, at the moment there are 11 account holders registered on the dsltrigger.eircom.ie site, surely 11 households won't make a DSL service viable??

Yes, I guess I would have to agree in the case of Kinnegad. However, I think the 304 figure probably reflects Eircom's belief that no one would ever arrive to take potential broadband customers away. Under threat, the figure would probably be much lower. Maybe not low enough, it is true for Kinnegad.

jwt · 20-07-2004 7:56pm

Originally posted by viking
They currently require 304 account holders to sign up to make it viable in Kinnegad, at the moment there are 11 account holders registered on the dsltrigger.eircom.ie site, surely 11 households won't make a DSL service viable??

Gareth

Especially when at least three of those are in Clonard outside of ADSL range

viking · 20-07-2004 8:02pm

Originally posted by jwt
Especially when at least three of those are in Clonard outside of ADSL range

Sure if they upgrade the exchange won't they be putting in ADSL2+... no problems in Clonard then! :ninja:

oscarBravo · 20-07-2004 9:28pm

Originally posted by DonegalMan
I have reservations about GDS as a mainstream solution mainly because I think that comparitively few areas will produce the people with the knowledge and commitment to bring these about. These groups, however, have shown that if you get such people, it is indeed possible.

That's precisely the gap the GDSS plans to fill.

Great work Gareth - I'm delighted for you. Big up to Cyril and John at Last Mile for their help also.

Tom Dunne · 20-07-2004 9:49pm

I just wanted to add my word of congratulations to you Gareth.

Great work and well done!

jwt · 20-07-2004 9:54pm

Originally posted by viking

Sure if they upgrade the exchange won't they be putting in ADSL2+... no problems in Clonard then! :ninja:

[Mr Burns]Excellent[/Mr Burns]

Right so , I'm off to hold my breath.

Christsakes somebody call an ambulance quick

damien · 20-07-2004 10:00pm

Originally posted by jwt

Christsakes somebody call an ambulance quick

Hello operator ? What's the number for 911 ?

viking · 21-07-2004 8:22am

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Big up to Cyril and John at Last Mile for their help also.

Absolutely, without their help there probably wouldn't be any broadband coming to Kinnegad or Kilbeggan.

Of course, without the people who took the time to register their interest on the Broadband4Kinnegad site we wouldn't have been able to approach Last Mile to see if they could help. Thanks also goes to John Gildea, the people who put up posters in the town and the numerous people who offered help and support.

In essence this was a great community effort.

Gareth

Murray · 24-07-2004 2:06pm

Well done Gareth,

Its great to see smaller towns like Kinnegad and Kilbeggan join the information age. Question for you though - how big an issue is the "line-of-sight" restriction with Last Mile's solution in your area?

Iarmhi abu

byte · 24-07-2004 6:35pm

Originally posted by Muck
1. It has a MAN, it was included in the original 19 towns.

2. It has DSL ..........ALREADY....... the Bunbeg exchange has been live for a month.

3. Now it gets €12.5k of Comms money to put in a ****ty VSAT backhaul system when they could get a 2Mbit DSL line instead ................

A bit of joined up thinking would not go amiss, did anybody bother to tell the Minister that Eircom got €90k of taxpayers money to DSL enable the Bunbeg exchange ?

M

Hmm, you mean to tell me that they spent money on VSAT when they've already got DSL?

Thats a bit wasteful.

I wish the locals where I live in South Donegal knew a little bit about broadband and how to get it! All I need is a bulldozer to toss a few hills, etc for clear line of sight to nearest DSL exchange (Donegal Town)

viking · 24-07-2004 6:44pm

Originally posted by Murray
Question for you though - how big an issue is the "line-of-sight" restriction with Last Mile's solution in your area?
Iarmhi abu

I'm told it shouldn't be a major issue as the land around Kinnegad is relatively flat, however there may be a few trees that might cause some problems for some people in the area. However, if you are close to the base station then the trees are more or less irrelevant.

viking

spongebob · 24-07-2004 7:26pm

Originally posted by byte
I wish the locals where I live in South Donegal knew a little bit about broadband and how to get it!

They do indeed. Glencolumkille will have Wimax within weeks while Kilcar, nearby, will have ADSl by March 2005 as will Dungloe.

Dungloe already has 3.5Ghz Wireless. In fact if you can see an Eircom tower....the big red and white ones...... you may be abe to get Wireless ....... mail alternativeaccess@eircom.ie and ask. Ya never know

M

byte · 24-07-2004 9:21pm

Kilcar will ADSL next year? You must be joking?

Jeez, they've a similar sized village to us, if not smaller!

I might try a mail to that email address you posted. I'll let ya know if I get any reply!

Murray · 26-07-2004 2:26am

Originally posted by Muck
They do indeed. Glencolumkille will have Wimax within weeks while Kilcar, nearby, will have ADSl by March 2005 as will Dungloe.

Dungloe already has 3.5Ghz Wireless. In fact if you can see an Eircom tower....the big red and white ones...... you may be abe to get Wireless ....... mail alternativeaccess@eircom.ie and ask. Ya never know

M

Thats funny, I thought Wimax (802.16) isn't going to be commercially available until 2005 at the earliest. Who's rolling it out?

spongebob · 26-07-2004 10:59am

Originally posted by Murray
Thats funny, I thought Wimax (802.16) isn't going to be commercially available until 2005 at the earliest.

Correct, the kit will be 802.11 initially but is allegedly flash upgradeable to 802.16 (Wimax) when the 802.16 Varienat they intend to use longer term is finalised . I suspect it may not be the 802.16e variant because........

Who's rolling it out?

....its O2 of all people.

M

Murray · 01-08-2004 4:00pm

Muck wrote:

Correct, the kit will be 802.11 initially but is allegedly flash upgradeable to 802.16 (Wimax) when the 802.16 Varienat they intend to use longer term is finalised . I suspect it may not be the 802.16e variant because........

Whats the range going to be like? Are they deploying it in a mesh configuration? Are they saying when they expect to upgrade it to 802.16?

....its O2 of all people.

M

The more competition, the merrier, right?

thegills · 04-08-2004 10:21am

Congrats Viking,

Can I ask a few questions;
1) If you were only entitled to 30% funding (Co. Clare fotr eg.) would you have bothered, indeed would you have been able to lure Last Mile Wireless?
2) The Kinnegad solution costs €57,500. How much of this capital is the local group required to put up and how many locals are putting up this amount?
3) Are you obtaining the funding in two tranches as per the requirements a) 50% at start-up and b) 50% upon attaining the minimum number of subscribers?
4) What number did the DCMNR set for b) above
5) Are you bachauling to carrier nuetral network - ESBT for eg.
6) Did the DCMNR give you the full amount you were seeking or did you have to scale back the solutions?
7) Are there going to be annual maintenance costs going forward?

I would really appreciate some further info.

thegills

viking · 04-08-2004 11:19am

1) If you were only entitled to 30% funding (Co. Clare fotr eg.) would you have bothered, indeed would you have been able to lure Last Mile Wireless?

The Broadband4Kinnegad campaign was set up in August 2003 before there was any mention of GBS funding from the government. The aim was to establish demand in the area and see what options were out there.

We had been in discussions with Last Mile for some time prior to GBS and had even reached a point where a proposed service from them was offered and put to those who had registered on with the campaign. Therefore, I believe that Last Mile were happy to provide a service in Kinnegad but the attraction of funding (at any level) for capital cost speeded up their plans.

2) The Kinnegad solution costs €57,500. How much of this capital is the local group required to put up and how many locals are putting up this amount?

Under the GBS terms, the local group is not required to put up any money for capital cost. The group establishes the demand in the area, contacts a BISP to see if a service is possible and sustainable. Following this, a joint application is made with the BISP for Group Broadband Scheme funding.

3) Are you obtaining the funding in two tranches as per the requirements a) 50% at start-up and b) 50% upon attaining the minimum number of subscribers?

Last Mile will be given the funding in two tranches as per the grant agreement with the DCMNR.

4) What number did the DCMNR set for b) above

50 or 60 after 12 months I think it was. I don't have the documentation handy at the moment.

5) Are you bachauling to carrier nuetral network - ESBT for eg.

Last Mile can provide you with the exact details of this.

6) Did the DCMNR give you the full amount you were seeking or did you have to scale back the solutions?

The DCMNR will provide funding up to 55% of capital costs in certain areas but no more than €50,000 for any application. As far as I am aware Last Mile did not have to scale any plans back.

7) Are there going to be annual maintenance costs going forward?

I would imagine that Last Mile will incur ongoing maintenance costs for their network (as any company managing a network would have) but I am obviously not aware of the costs involved.

Just to make a point, there is a very clear divide between the community group and the BISP with regards to technically and financially implementing the broadband service. As I said above, the community group simply establishes demand in the area and contacts a BISP to see if a service is possible (the BISP will install,own and operate the service[1]). From there an application is made for GBS funding to the DCMNR. The BISP installs the necessary equipment for the service and the community group is simply required by the government to sign off and say that what the BISP said they would do has in fact been done. Then funding is allocated.

[1] A community can also be the BISP as is the case with the Knockmore community network

I would really appreciate some further info.

Hope that answers some of your questions, let me know if I can help with any more info.

Viking

Dermot Ahern Announces First Towns For Group Broadband Scheme

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