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You lost me somewhere between 'Gotcha' and 'When you stop getting your teaching from a concordance' :rolleyes:Tinyark wrote:Paul Taught Torah and then the salvation of Messiah, he followed up with letters when those in His remit made mistakes
like, for instance, to the Galatians ? You really should give that one a read.
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I've just discovered (from your blog) that I, along with the rest of the church have been reading Paul's letters all wrong - It is good to know that the truth is safe in someones hands
You (or your blog) make a distinction between what you call 'the church' and those who are torah observant - can you tell me here if you consider non-torah observing christians hidden with Christ in God (Col3:3) ? Or is that contradictory to you ? - It would be nice if you would nail your colours on that one.
I don't have access to vimeo at work so can't use link at the moment but I can say on dispensationalism I come down on the side of Law-Grace-Kingdom and I didn't get that from a concordance 0 -
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Hi there
First of all the church we know today is not the 'church' of Pauls letters.
The very same word used in Greek for Church is also used in the greek version of the Torah. The 'assembly' at Sinai to the Pagans of the 1st and 2nd centuries was read as the 'church' of Israel. So, yes, I do think the modern view of a church is a million miles away from Pauls 'church' although he never used that word.
As for my colours.. I find that alot of peolpe I met who do not believe the law of G-d is meant for them today often site the letters of Paul.. rarely Jesus's words. People are always willing to take the easy option.. If the law doesnt count, and if the law tells us what sin is then we cannot sin. doesnt make sense.
for the record..
I 100% believe that you need to show you love G-d by walking in His Torah.
I believe G-d is one, not a trinity
I believe G-d is the same from the beginning to now and forever.
As for Col: well.. this is letter written to a bunch of pagans/gentiles, coming into the faith.. the previous chapter say 'dont do those pagan things, and dont worry if people slander you for changing your ways'
Paul only ever taught Torah. Torah is the guide that G-d sent to show how we love Him and how we sin. If we abandon Torah and believe we are covered by grace then we can do what we want.. when we want.. and how we want.
Do you believe that some of what is in the bible, the holy word of G-d, is a lie?0 -
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that is a beautiful response and I agree with nearly of of it.
the thing is.. i didnt start this post to 'convert' anyone. I simple wanted to put out the message of fellowship to those who believe as I do.
I can see where you are coming from, it is a perspective I looked from too once, and I know that no amount of explaining or verse quoting will change that view. Thats a G-d thing and although I know that is going to sound very smug I really do pray you at some point see what I mean by it.
I am always open to talk and discuss, I love it. Do me the favour of watching the link I sent on with an open mind and then if you want to debate with me, awesome. Im totally open to that, it stretches my 'word' muscle.
I would say that Yeshua walked this planet in His human form for around 3 years.. He had ample time to tell us not to do the law after His sacrifice but decided instead to preach and walk the law out. Peter was shocked when G-d told him to eat unclean and Paul went to great lenghts to prove He taught the law. There was not NT till 275 to speak of... thats 240 years of faith in yeshua with Torah law.. until 'man' changed things about.
Please watch the vid.. you will learn alot about church history at the very least. 0 -
Hi there
First of all the church we know today is not the 'church' of Pauls letters.
Therefore we can ignore Paul's letters? And other New Testament Scripture that doesn't agree with your position?The very same word used in Greek for Church is also used in the greek version of the Torah. The 'assembly' at Sinai to the Pagans of the 1st and 2nd centuries was read as the 'church' of Israel. So, yes, I do think the modern view of a church is a million miles away from Pauls 'church' although he never used that word.
Jews translated the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek.As for my colours.. I find that alot of peolpe I met who do not believe the law of G-d is meant for them today often site the letters of Paul.. rarely Jesus's words. People are always willing to take the easy option.. If the law doesnt count, and if the law tells us what sin is then we cannot sin. doesnt make sense.
Except, it isn't the easy option. Jesus died on the cross for sin, so that we might walk anew according to God's standards under a new covenant agreement (made clear in Jeremiah 31:31-34).
The easy option is works based salvation.for the record..
I 100% believe that you need to show you love G-d by walking in His Torah.
Where does Jesus come into it?I believe G-d is one, not a trinity
Do you believe in the divinity of Christ?I believe G-d is the same from the beginning to now and forever.
As do I. It was God's ultimate aim to fulfill the Mosaic covenant through Jesus Christ.As for Col: well.. this is letter written to a bunch of pagans/gentiles, coming into the faith.. the previous chapter say 'dont do those pagan things, and dont worry if people slander you for changing your ways'
Have you actually read it all and considered the logic of what it is saying to Christian communities?Paul only ever taught Torah. Torah is the guide that G-d sent to show how we love Him and how we sin. If we abandon Torah and believe we are covered by grace then we can do what we want.. when we want.. and how we want.
Take a read through Romans. That's what I'll say.Do you believe that some of what is in the bible, the holy word of G-d, is a lie?
No. It isn't. The Mosaic Covenant served a particular particular purpose for the people of Israel, now the New Covenant is for both Jews and Gentiles alike.0 -
I would say that Yeshua walked this planet in His human form for around 3 years.. He had ample time to tell us not to do the law after His sacrifice but decided instead to preach and walk the law out. Peter was shocked when G-d told him to eat unclean and Paul went to great lenghts to prove He taught the law. There was not NT till 275 to speak of... thats 240 years of faith in yeshua with Torah law.. until 'man' changed things about.
Please watch the vid.. you will learn alot about church history at the very least.
Are you saying that we are required to follow the entirety of the Mosaic law? It seems to me (and I apologise if I'm picking you up wrong) that you are rejecting a large chunk of the New Testament, saying that the law of Moses is mandatory, and that you are denying the Trinity? That sounds a lot closer to Judaism than Christianity - and that isn't meant to disrespect Jews in any way as there is a lot to admire about their faith.0 -
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Moshe GV Perez wrote: »Well funny enough, I am a christian, I am spanish born, I live in Ireland, and I am a jew... hahaha!!!
Jewish by birth and/or practice ?
welcome to boards:D0 -
Marvin Refined Wile wrote: »Jewish by birth and/or practice ?
welcome to boards:D
Jewish blood, from the tribe of Judah, perezites. Dad and mom both have Perez surname in the family history, and other Sephardic Spanish Jewish surnames in my family, but we were brought up as christians though. Pentecostal and Baptist. I accepted Yeshua ha Mashiakh as my Lord and Savior at the age of 11.0 -
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