Traffic lights for pedestrians - how does it work in Ireland?

CiniO · 06-10-2011 12:07am

Twin-go wrote: »

The Punto seems to be breaking before he come through the crossing. Maybe he had bad breaks. The Toyota with the Poznan plates seems like a much newer car (better breaks?).

Ohh come on.
Toyota was going slowly, and probably started braking much earlier.
Punto had quite big speed, and started braking very late.

Still bad driving by Punto driver (too fast).
As this was a pedestrian crossing they should have been more aware green light or not.

You said you've driven in Poland, so you should know that barely anyone would slow down if they have green light.

In Ireland you could get pedestrians crossing 10 yards from the crossing or even no where near the crossing. I think the owness is still on the driver no matter how careless and at fault the pedestrian is.

One thing I noticed while driving in Poland is that drivers in general are technically better than Irish they are far more aggressive.

Technically better - I agree.
Aggressive - maybe.

One thing I'm sure for certain - there is a bit of cult of "right of way".
On driving lessons this seems to be the main topic. Everyone on driving test if properly checked if he knows exactly who has the right of way in any possible situation.
Most drivers know very well then rules who should go first, and sadly they enforce it strongly.
In general if someone is driving on the main road, and has right of way, he won't even slow down but just go full speed.
That causes a lot's of accidents sadly.
And that might be the reason why you think they are more aggressive.

Iwannahurl · 06-10-2011 12:24am

CiniO wrote: »

Here is a video from other country.

Pretty major road through the city (double carriage way) with speed limit increased from 50 to 70km/h.

Traffic lights controlled pedestrian crossing. Cars have green light. Pedestrians - red.

For some unknown reason - one of the cars, even there is a green light for cars, stops to let pedestrians cross the road.
Other cars don't stop, and only a miracle saves pedestrians.

It's in Poland, and if pedestrians were hit by that Punto, it would certainly be pedestrians fault - no blame on Punto driver.
Probably driver that stopped and encouraged pedestrians to cross could face some kind of charges as well.

If such thing happened in Ireland, and pedestrian would be injured or killed. Who's fault would that be?

I ask, as I heard few times here, that no matter what if car hits pedestrian, it's always drivers fault in Ireland.

Csesc.

Some observations.

1. IMO a dual carriageway with a 70 km/h speed limit is not a suitable place for such a crossing. Or to put it a different way, an environment with a significant level of pedestrian traffic is not a suitable place for a dual carriageway with a 70 km/h speed limit.

2. There was a group of people trying to cross. Were they running for a bus perhaps? Why the urgency? Why the apparent pressure to cross despite the obvious presence of fast-moving traffic?

3. Because of where the video clip starts it's not possible to determine why the driver stopped. Was it to "encourage" or allow the pedestrians to cross? Or was it because they were already on the road? If the latter, see #2 above.

4. The term "jaywalking" is often used in Ireland and on Boards. I have been told by a PSV driver (who is required to be aware of these things) that there is indeed a law obliging pedestrians to behave with due care and attention. Were a pedestrian to be hit by a car in such circumstances in Ireland, I suspect at least some of the liability would be attributed to them. http://www.injury-compensation.ie/pedestrian-accident-claims

5. It also needs to be asked whether the signalised crossing is providing an appropriate level of service for pedestrians (and bus users, if they use the crossing to get to the bus stop). There was a controversial case in the US recently where a mother was charged with the 'vehicular homicide' of one of her children after he was struck and killed by a one-eyed driver who had been drinking prior to the incident and who had previous motoring convictions. The woman's crime: she crossed the road with her three children at an unapproved spot near a bus-stop, opting to take the more direct and 'natural' route across the road from her residence rather than walk with them to use the pedestrian crossing nearly 500 metres up the road (which would obviously mean a c. 1 km 'detour' just to cross the road to/from the bus-stop).

A MOTHER WHO was crossing a road with her 4-year-old son when he was fatally struck by a drunk driver has been convicted of vehicular homicide, after a jury decided that she had been “jaywalking” when the incident occurred.

In April 2010, 30-year-old Raquel Nelson from Marietta, Georgia, USA, was crossing the road with her three children when she, her son and her daughter were hit by a car. The boy later died of his injuries, while the girl and mother suffered only minor injuries.

The driver, Jerry L Guy, had been drinking alcohol and taking painkillers on the day of the collision. He was also partially blind in one eye.

After the collision, Guy fled the scene.

http://www.thejournal.ie/mother-convicted-of-homicide-after-drunk-driver-killed-her-child-183001-Jul2011

http://uclaextensionppp.wordpress.com/tag/raquel-nelson/

complicit · 06-10-2011 1:02am

Polish drivers technically better than Irish ?
They are certainly more accomplished at tailgating and overtaking on blind corners in their
untaxed Audi A6 .
Single vision collisions , they excel at that also , lol .

swizzle123 · 06-10-2011 1:09am

CiniO wrote: »

Even if I'm driving at 120km/h on motorway, and suddenly pedestrian runs across motorway straight under my wheels.
Assume there is nothing I could do, and pedestrian is killed.

Does that mean that I'll be prosecuted for killing a pedestrian? (if someone running across the motorway could be classified as pedestrian).

But law states Pedestrians are not allowed on a motorway? So they would be in the wrong?

CiniO · 06-10-2011 1:32am

swizzle123 wrote: »

But law states Pedestrians are not allowed on a motorway? So they would be in the wrong?

Does the law not state they are not allowed to cross the road, when red light is displayed for them?

cyclopath2001 · 06-10-2011 7:18am

CiniO wrote: »

Does the law not state they are not allowed to cross the road, when red light is displayed for them?

Ok so they get fined for jay walking, but you can still be held liable.

There have been cases of kids who impaled themselves on railings while trespassing, the property owner was still liable.

-Chris- · 06-10-2011 8:06am

@everyone - can we do this thread without the sniping or "Polish drivers are better than Irish drivers" (or vice versa) please!

Cabaal · 06-10-2011 8:20am

challengemaster wrote: »

Considering there's no such thing as J-walking in Ireland, as its not illegal to cross a road where there isn't a marked out crossing

Yes there is and yes it is illegal and you can be fined for it,
Problem is it just isn't enforced

I believe the fine is 50e at present...since the euro change over, I've look into it and while the law exists the Gov has never realized numbers for amounts of people fined...probably because its not been enforced and because there isn't any numbers because of this.

I can't find a recent law reform report but here's a bit from 1996 report,

under s.102 of the Road Traffic Act, 1961, the sanction for jay-walking is a fine not exceeding £20 for a first offence, and for a second or subsequent offence a fine not exceeding £50, except that, where the offence is a third or subsequent offence in any period of 12 consecutive months, the sanction is a fine not exceeding £50 or, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding three months or both such fine and imprisonment;

There's a misconception in Ireland that such a law doesn't exist on the books and that jay-walking is an "American thing" when it comes to people getting fined, but such laws exists for most European country's.

Twin-go · 06-10-2011 12:03pm

complicit wrote: »

Polish drivers technically better than Irish ?
They are certainly more accomplished at tailgating and overtaking on blind corners in their
untaxed Audi A6 .
Single vision collisions , they excel at that also , lol .

In terms of technically better I refer to the fact that they have to deal with far more variations in conditions through the year. Snow, ice, rain, heat etc. A couple of bad winters here and most of us Irish struggle -understandibly.

As for the rest of your statement :rolleyes:.

Twin-go · 06-10-2011 12:05pm

CiniO wrote: »

Does the law not state they are not allowed to cross the road, when red light is displayed for them?

There are no lights/pedestrian crossings on a moterway. If there are its not a motorway.

markpb · 06-10-2011 12:28pm

Cabaal wrote: »

There's a misconception in Ireland that such a law doesn't exist on the books and that jay-walking is an "American thing" when it comes to people getting fined, but such laws exists for most European country's.

That's not entirely true. A pedestrian can cross anywhere they like except at traffic lights (when they must wait for the green light) or within 50 feet of zebra crossings (when they must not cause a driver to brake suddenly). Crossing anywhere else, as long as it's safe, is perfectly legal.

S.I. No. 329/1979: ROAD TRAFFIC (SIGNS) (AMENDMENT) (NO. 2) REGULATIONS, 1979.

within a pedestrian crossing complex,—
( a ) a pedestrian shall not be on any part of the roadway other than the pedestrian crossing

Road Traffic General Bye-Laws, 1964

34. A pedestrian shall exercise care and take all reasonable precautions to avoid causing danger or inconvenience to traffic and other pedestrians, and, when at a road junction controlled by traffic lights, shall comply with bye-law 13 of these bye-laws in so far as it applies to a driver facing lights at which there is no stop line.

36 (2) At a road junction where traffic is controlled either by traffic lights or by a pointsman, a pedestrian shall cross the roadway only when traffic going in the direction in which the pedestrian intends to cross is permitted (by the lights or pointsman) to proceed, and shall yield the right of way to any traffic turning in front of the pedestrian.

37. A pedestrian about to cross a roadway at a place where pedestrian lights have been provided shall do so only when a lamp of the pedestrian lights facing him is lit and green.

38.—(1) On a roadway on which a zebra crossing has been provided a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 50 feet of the crossing except by the crossing.

(2) When a vehicle is approaching a zebra crossing a pedestrian shall not step on to that crossing if his action is likely to cause the driver either to brake suddenly or to swerve.

galwaycyclist · 06-10-2011 1:50pm

I did this once driving in Spain. Pissed off the drivers behind me. I came around a bend and there was a crossing with black and white stripes and people waiting to cross. In Ireland that would be a zebra crossing and I would be required to yield. There were also green traffic lights but instinct had already taken over and I stopped.

Blazer · 06-10-2011 3:42pm

you wouldn't dream of crossing a road in poland unless the pedestrian lights were green.
Not only will the drivers not slow down and frighten the life out of you but you'l be hit with an on the spot fine of 100 zlotys (about €25)..happened to one of the lads from work

he couldn't believe it although he was wondering why no one was crossing the streets when no cars were coming..:)

Bigcheeze · 06-10-2011 4:51pm

Sc@recrow wrote: »

you wouldn't dream of crossing a road in poland unless the pedestrian lights were green.

The evidence in the video suggests otherwise

Traffic lights for pedestrians - how does it work in Ireland?

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