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Penalty points for no seat belt... while wearing seat belt

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  • 22-04-2014 4:15pm
    #1
    julio arca
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭


    Hi folks,

    Last Friday a Garda on a motorbike pulled up beside me at a set of traffic lights and, to my surprise, asked me for my licence and why I hadn't been wearing a seat belt.

    I was wearing a seat belt when he pulled up but the Garda was insistent that he had seen me minutes earlier driving while not wearing one (this was not the case). His argument was that I was wearing a white t shirt and he could clearly see I wasn't wearing a belt.

    I am currently awaiting two penalty points and a fine in the post. What are my routes for appeal? I can't have the inconvenience of taking time off work.

    The whole situation seems ridiculously unjust. Who does the burden of proof lie with here? If it is essentially my word against a Garda's word I don't fancy my chances.


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    #2
    Hooch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    You may write to the local Superintendent if you wish to appeal. He will then look for a report from the Garda. If it is not cancelled and you do not pay within the 56 days, a summons to court is automatically generated.

    In court it will be the Garda's verbal evidence against yours.


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    #3
    Heathen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    I have had this happen to me before, i was accused of overtaking on a continuous white line... by a cop that was 5 or 6 cars behind me... at the time my passenger had only recently be involved in an RTA so i was being extra cautious and purposely waited for the break in the line to go, and even explained this to the cop... I should also point out that the car i overtook was doing 40 in a 60 with about 6 people in it and the rear suspension dragging along the road, but he ignored that and was adamant that i was a menace on the road... anyway he was looking around my car when we smiled and came back to my window asking why my tax disk said 1995 when my reg plate says 96?? I said, "no.. they are both 95" he went back and checked again and was corrected, I then said "how is it that you can see me overtaking on a continuous white line from 5 cars behind, but you can't read a number plate six feet in front of you?" He was sickened to the point that he just threw my licence back in the window and drove off... that was the last i hear of it until i got points in the post a few days later??

    I went to the local station to try plead my case but was told that in order to fight it, my witness and i would both need to take time off work and go to court to plead my innocence...

    I am not bashing the Gardai, i just think the whole "your word against mine" thing is a bit crap, he didnt even inform me i was getting points, he just drove off and the sergeant in the station just told me it was out of his hands... I ended up taking the points purely cos both of us could not afford to take days off work.

    I am an ES worker and know that the Garda do brilliant work, i have worked along side them on may occasions and have to admit that i would not be able to put up with a lot of the stuff they have to put up with, but when someone is wrongly accused there needs to be a fairer system.


    H


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    #4
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    Heathen wrote: »
    I am not bashing the Gardai, i just think the whole "your word against mine" thing is a bit crap, .......

    .....but when someone is wrongly accused there needs to be a fairer system.

    How else would you suggest they prosecute offences in court? A Guard's direct evidence would not be sufficient?

    In nearly all court cases, it boils down to verbal evidence from witnesses, and a judge or jury, has to decide who's story is more reliable.


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    #5
    Heathen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    Thats my point... there was no evidence... nor was i even informed that i would be receiving points!!

    I do not suggest for a minute that i have all the answers, because i don't, i am merely pointing out that what i experienced was 100% wrong!

    Yes i had a witness, however neither of us could afford to take time off work to go prove my innocence... it seemed as if i could only have cleared my name if i was able to afford to do it... in this case i was just labeled as guilty until proven innocent.

    H


  • Options
    #6
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Heathen wrote: »
    I went to the local station to try plead my case but was told that in order to fight it, my witness and i would both need to take time off work and go to court to plead my innocence...
    H

    This is the essence of the system if you lie down and take it well justice is not served, you had a good case and you threw it away.

    Sometimes you have to take a day to defend your case.


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    #7
    Heathen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Heathen


    I wouldn't say i threw it away, as i have pointed out twice already in this thread, neither me nor my witness could afford to take time off work.

    H


  • Options
    #8
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    I see in vehicle CCTV is very popular in Russia. I know CCTV evidence is used in court, therefore if a motorist is wronged by a Garda and appropriate evidence is recorded, will it stand up in court?


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    #9
    metroburgers
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭metroburgers


    kub wrote: »
    I see in vehicle CCTV is very popular in Russia. I know CCTV evidence is used in court, therefore if a motorist is wronged by a Garda and appropriate evidence is recorded, will it stand up in court?

    Yes it can be used if relevant to a case, don't know if many drivers turn the dash cam around to film themselves driving, maybe Marty Morrissey...


  • Options
    #10
    Bang Bang
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Bang Bang


    Zambia wrote: »
    This is the essence of the system if you lie down and take it well justice is not served, you had a good case and you threw it away.

    Sometimes you have to take a day to defend your case.

    The problem in this country is the threat that hangs over you should you decide to defend yourself in court, the threat is that your points are doubled and your fine may be increased if you lose your case.


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    #11
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,528 ✭✭✭kub


    metroburgers wrote: »
    Yes it can be used if relevant to a case, don't know if many drivers turn the dash cam around to film themselves driving, maybe Marty Morrissey...

    Well what I meant was perhaps a few cameras, one on dash looking out front, one doing the same at the back and probably one at the passenger side looking over at the driver. So a system as such.
    Would footage from that stand up in court?


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  • Options
    #12
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    kub wrote: »
    Well what I meant was perhaps a few cameras, one on dash looking out front, one doing the same at the back and probably one at the passenger side looking over at the driver. So a system as such.
    Would footage from that stand up in court?

    Yeah, it would for something like a simple traffic issue, which is treated more like civil law than criminal law. For something more serious, like a criminal case, you might need to prove the video first before having it admitted as evidence.


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    #13
    nutts_77
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭nutts_77


    Bang Bang wrote: »
    The problem in this country is the threat that hangs over you should you decide to defend yourself in court, the threat is that your points are doubled and your fine may be increased if you lose your case.

    If you have a case to defend, then nothing to worry about. If you are just chancing your arm, then there has to be consequences


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    #14
    jbkenn
    Registered Users Posts: 919 ✭✭✭jbkenn


    kub wrote: »
    Well what I meant was perhaps a few cameras, one on dash looking out front, one doing the same at the back and probably one at the passenger side looking over at the driver. So a system as such.
    Would footage from that stand up in court?
    You are assuming that all courts in Ireland would have the technology to view such video evidence, good luck with that, some District courts are'nt even held in courthouse's, they are held in pubs.


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    #15
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,806 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    You would also need to prove that the CCTV wasn't tampered with. AGS have procedures in place for this, the general public don't. Just something to be aware of.


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    #16
    Bang Bang
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Bang Bang


    nutts_77 wrote: »
    If you have a case to defend, then nothing to worry about. If you are just chancing your arm, then there has to be consequences

    Nevertheless the threat still hangs and a lot of people have no experience of the courts system so their fear may overrule logic, or chance!


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