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Prime Time Special - Child Care in Ireland (No Downloads - Please Read Post #1)

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Comments

  • #242
    Goose81
    Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    Our national broadcaster is an absolute disgrace. My taxes pay for their bull**** channel but they refuse to put certain programmes online. Couldn't be more annoyed.


  • #243
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Dstep wrote: »
    Anyone know where I can watch this? I was in work and missed it!!

    RTE will not be repeating the show and it will not be on the RTE player.

    Goose81 wrote: »
    Our national broadcaster is an absolute disgrace. My taxes pay for their bull**** channel but they refuse to put certain programmes online. Couldn't be more annoyed.
    I believe that they're not putting it online or repeating the programme because the parents of the children involved have specifically requested this.


  • #244
    kearneybobs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,923 ✭✭✭kearneybobs


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    I believe that they're not putting it online or repeating the programme because the parents of the children involved have specifically requested this.

    It really is a shame that they are doing that. I wouldn't mind watching it to see what they're all going on about but obviously I cant. Hope someone else puts it online.....


  • #245
    Goose81
    Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    I believe that they're not putting it online or repeating the programme because the parents of the children involved have specifically requested this.

    I haven't seen it and I'm sure I will be as horrified as everyone on here but let the parents sue them. Not my problem. I pay for it and shouldn't be restricted from viewing it.

    Fair enough if the parents refused outright to let it be broadcast but they didn't


  • #246
    unklerosco
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭unklerosco


    Saw a few posts on here about cctv in the crèches etc.. I know of a few that offer this already where parents can log in and see what's going on. Think it's a great idea, something I've been looking into for our own montessori.


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  • #247
    GT_TDI_150
    Registered Users Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    Goose81 wrote: »
    Our national broadcaster is an absolute disgrace. My taxes pay for their bull**** channel but they refuse to put certain programmes online. Couldn't be more annoyed.

    As was pointed out above this might be to spare the parents involved from seeing this footage pop up again and again.

    I can only imagine how distressing it must be for a parent the see their child go through what we witnessed tonight!


  • #248
    Goose81
    Registered Users Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭Goose81


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    As was pointed out above this might be to spare the parents involved from seeing this footage pop up again and again.

    I can only imagine how distressing it must be for a parent the see their child go through what we witnessed tonight!
    Forget about the parents, if it was my child in the footage not a chance it would have been shown
    . You can't pick and choose , if you consent for it to be broadcast then it shouldn't include terms.

    If you don't want it show. Then sue.


  • #249
    donal7
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭donal7


    Concerned123 wrote: »
    Our little girl was in a Giraffe creche for a period of eight months until end of 2012. Several of the incidences shown on this program have confirmed our suspicions and many of the issues we raised with management in Giraffe.1. On numerous occasions upon collecting our child we found her strapped in a chair this is mostly when we arrived unexpectedly 2. We collected her at 11am one morning because she was unwell to find her diary complete up to 5pm stating what a wonderful day she had all her food etc 3. In her diary the carer paid reference to the fact that she loved clapping her hands to music...my daughter didn't start doing that for at least anrother 3 months...4. On a different occasion we arrived to find severe bruising on her face and a black eye which we were told was a direct result of her trying to get up from the chair too fast and slamming her face off the table - which was similar to footage on program tonight whereby infant was strapped to chair and hit their head off table. 5 on numerous occasions her nappy wasn't changed and it appeared to be like that for hours 6. There were various times when the number of carers were inadequate or number of children left in the room and all the infants seemed to be moved around from day to day to suit shortages of staff. It got to the point where we had to search for our daughter in the evening because we didn't know what room she would be in. 7. the last room our daughter was put in was an extremely unpleasant experience 1 carer in particular was extremely loud and the other seemed ill-equipped to deal with infants. It got to the point that my child would start crying in the car when we went down the slip road on exit 16 and when I brought her to this particular room she was absolutely inconsolable - this went on for a number of days and when I raised it with a carer for the last time I was more or less given a lecture on how hard it is to mind so many children - can't take the pressure and having problems at home - this carer's behaviour actually really concerned me so much so that I thought she may have done herself some harm - I raised my concerns with the manager of the creche and requested my child be moved immediately and to possible get some help for the carer or at least supervise her. The next day we were confronted by the other carer stating that under pressure etc and arguing that they were doing nothing wrong - Once my child was moved from that room she was less upset and it has since come to my attention that both carers are still together in the same room and their behaviour remains the same. We are completely devastated as parents having witnessed that footage tonight and it seems to me that Giraffes policy is to employ anyone off the street without doing the necessary checks to ensure their competency -Whats even more distressing is that Giraffe have only suspended the employee that was abusive to the infants in their footage- that says a hell of a lot about their policy and their priorities!! We were paying almost 1000 per month for our daughter to be nourished and cared for and I would hate to think of what pain my little one endured it really is preying heavily on my mind - only hope it hasn't caused too much long term damage. RTE should be given a medal for highlighting these abuses and hopefully this will force the government and HSE to ensure that all carers are properly vetted and educated to a high standard with no exceptions

    Wow that must have been extremely difficult for you. Thanks for highlighting these points. As a parent myself who has just started my own child in a creche be it only a few days a week it was unbelievable to watch and worrying. My worry is what is to stop the likes of the girl filmed literally hurling the kids around from being employed at another creche? The likes of this person should never be allowed to work with children ever again.


  • #250
    Narnia2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Narnia2010


    Firstly I am disgusted by the abuse shown in the report and how other members of staff did nothing to stop it. I do not care how much someone is paid, if I saw someone doing this to a child on the street I would try to stop it.

    For the last couple of days I have been following posts on theses boards regarding the program and how people were saying it was disgraceful for RTE to go undercover in creches. I was astounded by that opinion. How right RTE were to do an undercover report in this way, similar to Leas Cross, it is the only way to get truth across. My Mother is in a nursing home and I read the HIQA reports for that nursing home and I know they cannot pick up on everything. Everyone is always on their best behaviour once an auditor appears.

    Further to this, I am so annoyed that the Minister for Children or any representative from the Government didn't bother their asses to sit on that panel and alleviate the fears of the parents out there. As a parent of a child who attends a very decent, well managed creche, I am now very concerned that this could be going on there as well. I will be more observant, will do more spot checks (arrive early unannounced etc) and will read the inspection reports but really how can this calm my fears and the fears of every parent out there that has to work and leave their children in creches. I have let France Fitzgerald know my feelings in a slightly abusive email.

    There needs to be more focus on the role of parents role and try to facilitate a work/life balance for working parents to spend time with their children instead of throwing more money at creches. How can Sweden have such low unemployment, have such great child care and allow parents (even grandparents) time paid time off work to attend to their sick child and we cannot even have a properly regulated system? A fundamental change is needed in the way we are bringing up our children and there needs to be the funds and support from the government to do it.


  • #251
    flynnlives
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭flynnlives


    tbh im not surprised by this carry on although i feel sorry for the children and their parents.

    to me this is only the beginning of yet another scandal.

    The care home scandals began after a previous primetime investigates.

    Nothing surprises me in this country anymore, its a banana republic.

    There is no accountability and responsibility for anything, politicians, bankers, high paid public servants, the church, yet all these cliches bar the church are amongst the best paid people in Ireland.

    They speak and enforce their power when it suits them but when they are found out no one is too blame.


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  • #252
    therealme
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭therealme


    PARENTS:

    1) Ask your creche for a copy of their recent inspection report. These should be freely available for you to see. There will be non-compliant things i.e. I heard a creche say that 1 toilet had just used a toilet roll - a member of staff replaced it infront of the inspector and it was on the report that there was no toilet paper in the toiletS! Just use your common sense.

    2) Easier said than done but vary your time to collect/drop of your child. Even by a few minutes when you can - that way you can see what exactly happens at different times during the day.

    3) Go with your gut instinct! ALWAYS!

    4) Price and "long waiting lists!!!" are clearly not always the best.

    5) Ask about the owner - are they qualified in Childcare/do they work in their service - if not is it just for a business?????

    6) Did I say go with your gut instinct????

    I genuinely don't think all creches are bad but people need to really research the creche they want to use.


  • #253
    womandriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    Goose81 wrote: »
    I haven't seen it and I'm sure I will be as horrified as everyone on here but let the parents sue them. Not my problem. I pay for it and shouldn't be restricted from viewing it.

    Fair enough if the parents refused outright to let it be broadcast but they didn't

    You weren't restricted from watching it. It was broadcast as advertised and was stated in advance that it would not be repeated or available on the player. If people wanted to see it but couldn't they should have made arrangements to record it. It's not difficult. Why people think that the parents of those children shouldn't have complete control of footage of them is beyond me. If it was my child I wouldn't be allowing footage of them online for anyone to access same as I wouldn't be posting pictures of them up on google for any unsavoury type to download.


  • #254
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Goose81 wrote: »
    I haven't seen it and I'm sure I will be as horrified as everyone on here but let the parents sue them. Not my problem. I pay for it and shouldn't be restricted from viewing it.

    Fair enough if the parents refused outright to let it be broadcast but they didn't
    RTE issued a statement to say they wouldn't be repeating it. If you wanted to see it, why didn't you tune it while it was on or record it? Or you could have asked someone else to record it for you :confused:


  • #255
    Tom_Cruise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tom_Cruise


    MrsD007 wrote: »
    RTE issued a statement to say they wouldn't be repeating it. If you wanted to see it, why didn't you tune it while it was on or record it? Or you could have asked someone else to record it for you :confused:

    Did RTE issue a statement in the days leading up to the show? I missed it as well.


  • #256
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Tom_Cruise wrote: »
    Did RTE issue a statement in the days leading up to the show? I missed it as well.
    Here is a link to the RTE Statement

    http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2013/0528/453196-rte-investigations-unit-documentary-on-standards-in-childcare/


  • #257
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    womandriver wrote: »
    You weren't restricted from watching it. It was broadcast as advertised and was stated in advance that it would not be repeated or available on the player. If people wanted to see it but couldn't they should have made arrangements to record it. It's not difficult. Why people think that the parents of those children shouldn't have complete control of footage of them is beyond me. If it was my child I wouldn't be allowing footage of them online for anyone to access same as I wouldn't be posting pictures of them up on google for any unsavoury type to download.

    :rolleyes:

    this attitude makes me worry about parents sometimes


  • #258
    marxo
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭marxo


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    What a knee jerk nonsensical comment. But I expect more of the same throughout the wider media and online over the coming days.


    Just because you don't agree does not make it nonsensical. Why bother having children if they're going to be in a crèche for 7 or 8 hours of the day.

    Considering how expensive it is, the cost of petrol to commute to the crèche etc, I would like to know any couple who would be at a significant profit from their job and weigh that up against their child's happiness and wellbeing from being with their own parent.

    Someone also made a point about socialisation. Crèches are not the only place where children get socialised. Going to school at 4 or 5 is also ample opportunity to develop friendships.

    I'm also not trying to attack parents and understand how difficult it is, I just think they should have serious re thinks about whether their job is really worth their child's happiness.


  • #259
    womandriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    Neeson wrote: »
    I might upload it to a file site someday.

    Uploading images of babies when their parents have said its against their wishes...what a fine decent person you are .....


  • #260
    Tom_Cruise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tom_Cruise


    womandriver wrote: »
    Uploading images of babies when their parents have said its against their wishes...what a fine decent person you are .....

    Lol but the parents allowed it the broadcast to the entire country, parent fail.


  • #261
    emo72
    Registered Users Posts: 6,184 ✭✭✭emo72


    full of rage after watching that. a couple of points that popped into my head.......

    1)how is it possible to put 10 infants in a room and expect them all to go asleep at the same time? i dont think its possible let alone practical.

    2)working in a creche seems incredibly stressful.

    3)the really high standard of care that is desired would need a ratio of at least 1 adult to 3 children to give them the attention they deserve

    4) if parents are paying about 1000 a month, where is all the money going? not the staff surely?

    dumbfounded after that. basically my conclusion is that it will take an immense amount of money to get the the desired standards required. that type of money is not going to come from government. they obviously dont have the money to pay inspection staff. creche staff are asked to look after our most precious, yet there seems to be workers that dont give a crap (OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE IN THE MINORITY, I HOPE) the HSE is looking to cut spending as it is. where is the solution??? i dont see one.

    my heart goes out to the parents of the children.


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  • #262
    womandriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    Tom_Cruise wrote: »
    Lol but the parents allowed it the broadcast to the entire country, parent fail.

    Oh cos it's the same thing? Having it broadcast on one occasion and having it online permanently?


  • #263
    Neeson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    womandriver wrote: »
    Uploading images of babies when their parents have said its against their wishes...what a fine decent person you are .....

    Ah here. They're all just moving bodies to us. Can't identify them.


  • #264
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    womandriver wrote: »
    Oh cos it's the same thing? Having it broadcast on one occasion and having it online permanently?

    how is it different, it's already in the public view and recording isnt something reserved for the social elite anymore


  • #265
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    marxo wrote: »
    Just because you don't agree does not make it nonsensical. Why bother having children if they're going to be in a crèche for 7 or 8 hours of the day.

    Considering how expensive it is, the cost of petrol to commute to the crèche etc, I would like to know any couple who would be at a significant profit from their job and weigh that up against their child's happiness and wellbeing from being with their own parent.
    I thought I'd stepped back into pre 1973 Ireland there for a second

    Sounds like you'd be in favour of re-introducing the Marriage Ban :rolleyes:


  • #266
    womandriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    this attitude makes me worry about parents sometimes

    It worries you that parents dont upload pics of their children? Really? Bizarre.


  • #267
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    womandriver wrote: »
    It worries you that parents dont upload pics of their children? Really? Bizarre.

    yes thats the exact context of my comment


  • #268
    Neeson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭Neeson


    womandriver wrote: »
    It worries you that parents dont upload pics of their children? Really? Bizarre.


    Plenty do upload them to their facedbukes.


  • #269
    Tom_Cruise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tom_Cruise


    womandriver wrote: »
    Oh cos it's the same thing? Having it broadcast on one occasion and having it online permanently?


    To think such a program wont be recorded and uploaded is naive, especially when less significant and controversial RTE productions end up on torrent sites - as a quick search will show.


  • #270
    KCC
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭KCC


    marxo wrote: »
    Just because you don't agree does not make it nonsensical. Why bother having children if they're going to be in a crèche for 7 or 8 hours of the day.

    Considering how expensive it is, the cost of petrol to commute to the crèche etc, I would like to know any couple who would be at a significant profit from their job and weigh that up against their child's happiness and wellbeing from being with their own parent.

    Someone also made a point about socialisation. Crèches are not the only place where children get socialised. Going to school at 4 or 5 is also ample opportunity to develop friendships.

    I'm also not trying to attack parents and understand how difficult it is, I just think they should have serious re thinks about whether their job is really worth their child's happiness.

    It's not about profiting from a job. I hope my kids go to college and make use of their education by having a good career. It's not a matter of children being unhappy in all creches. I'm sure there are good ones out there! Also, all the research indicates that two years of quality preschool education benefits a child enormously so they should be in a preschool before they go to school. Notice I said "education", not "childcare".

    I don't have my child in a creche by the way but I'm lucky to have a choice.


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  • #271
    womandriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭womandriver


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    how is it different, it's already in the public view and recording isnt something reserved for the social elite anymore

    Well the amount if people on here complaining that they missed it you'd wonder!

    Somebody having it recorded at home is different to having it online unless you're going to invite the whole online population in to your home to view it when ever they feel like it. The parents have no doubt been through enough and their wishes should be respected. How you like footage of you child being abused like that online?


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