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Going back to a cash economy?

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    #92
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Srsly78:

    Found one set of requirements for opening a bank account: BoI. How does one provide a household bill if one does not have a house?


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    #93
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Millicent wrote: »
    You may have missed my point. You need money to put into a bank account. Homeless people do not have money and rely on change from others. Take cash out of the market and how will the homeless fund themselves? And if they manage to put small amounts into a bank account (which by the way, the setting up of is much more difficult than you believe), how are they going to cope with €100 coming out of it a year?

    As to social welfare, there are plenty of homeless who have had difficulties attaining it and are in no man's land. Diaspora, as just one example.

    Now you are talking about something completely different - returning emigrants.

    Homeless people do indeed get social welfare, they could put this in a bank account, it's entirely their choice. Not so long ago you could get dole paid into bank account, but I think they have changed this for most people.

    edit: There are indeed requirements. The homeless person in this case can present a utility bill from the hostel, with an accompanying letter from the manager saying they are resident. This DOES satisfy the requirements. If they were refused they could likely sue for discrimination. On a related note, I have done something similar when opening bank accounts in the UK. I was staying with friends, and was able to use their utility bill + signed letter.


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    #94
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    srsly78 wrote: »
    Now you are talking about something completely different - returning emigrants.

    Homeless people do indeed get social welfare, they could put this in a bank account, it's entirely their choice. Not so long ago you could get dole paid into bank account, but I think they have changed this for most people.

    edit: There are indeed requirements. The homeless person in this case can present a utility bill from the hostel, with an accompanying letter from the manager saying they are resident. This DOES satisfy the requirements. If they were refused they could likely sue for discrimination. On a related note, I have done something similar when opening bank accounts in the UK. I was staying with friends, and was able to use their utility bill + signed letter.

    You think there are no homeless returning emigrants? There was one particularly high profile case of a returning person who was homeless because couldn't claim social welfare in the last year.

    Your experience of the ease of gaining a bank account does not correlate with Focus Ireland's, btw. Reading here.


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    #95
    patwicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭patwicklow


    pragmatic1 wrote: »
    Bye Bye AIB time to close my account.

    Closed mine today hope more do the same


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    #96
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Millicent wrote: »
    You think there are no homeless returning emigrants? There was one particularly high profile case of a returning person who was homeless because couldn't claim social welfare in the last year.

    Your experience of the ease of gaining a bank account does not correlate with Focus Ireland's, btw. Reading here.

    Please read your own link, and notice that homeless people can indeed open bank accounts.


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    #97
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    srsly78 wrote: »
    Please read your own link, and notice that homeless people can indeed open bank accounts.

    With great difficulty is the point.

    ETA: To quote you the relevant parts:
    The experience of Focus Ireland has been that people who are experiencing
    homelessness have had difficulty in setting up bank accounts, with a major
    impediment being that they have no permanent address.

    An example of where this would become a problem would be a person who is
    homeless in Dublin City and seeking Supplementary Welfare Allowance (SWA),
    which is accessed via the Homeless Persons Unit. In this case it would be crucial
    that local authorities were willing to readily provide written confirmation that an
    individual is on the homeless list and residing in emergency accommodation, and
    that such confirmation was acceptable in opening a basic bank account...

    People experiencing homelessness, and in particular people experiencing chronic
    street homelessness, are overrepresented amongst people without a bank account.
    In many countries the fact of not having a bank account has a very negative impact
    on the lives of homeless people. A discussion paper developed by FEANTSA (the
    network of European NGOs working with people who are homeless) noted that “In
    France all social benefit payments are being made electronically and people without
    a bank account have therefore difficulties in accessing these. In the UK, some
    people without a bank account have to bear the costs for expensive alternative
    services, such as cash cheques. Depending on the different national contexts,
    access to a bank account can be particularly difficult for homeless EU migrants or
    third-country-nationals, either due to administrative procedures or due to language
    barriers” (FEANTSA, April 2009).

    Another issue in regard to eligibility which arises for people who are experiencing
    homelessness relates to young people under 18. Figures obtained from the Dept.
    of Social Protection state that 2,241 young people under 18 receive a social welfare
    payment in their own right
    Opening a bank account presents particular additional problems for a person under
    18 and a mechanism must be put in place so that these young people receiving
    a social welfare payment can avail of the basic bank account too. In some cases
    parental consent may not be possible in which case verification ought to be provided
    by whomever the young person is deemed to be in the care of including in some
    cases an allocated social worker where the young person is deemed to be homeless
    as per section 5 of the 1991 Child Care Act.


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    #98
    murphm45
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭murphm45


    Millicent wrote: »
    Srsly78:

    Found one set of requirements for opening a bank account: BoI. How does one provide a household bill if one does not have a house?

    I'm sure there's some sarcastic overtone here that i'm not quite picking up on but you just need something that proves you live at the address you give them(an existing bank statement will do), although it does raise the interesting question of what do you do when you open your first account...

    On a side note free fees are a relatively new thing here ... apparently. In college i had a lecturer who recently moved from Germany and was appauled that banks charged fees, he said at home Banks just didn't charge fees. He genuinely seemed shocked by it and that was 2006!

    Finally, i think whoever runs AIB are just stupid. They clearly don't want any customers. A friend of mine has a savings account with them (it used to be with Anglo but was transferred to them) and he's after being told it's too small for them and they'll be sending him a cheque! Ehh sorry lads how exactly does that work?! Do you not need deposits to allow you to lend and make money?


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    #99
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Africa wrote: »
    This is a really, really stupid move. Thousands are going to leave their bank and go to Ulster Bank. And rightfully so. I wont have to pay cause Ive a student account, but out of principle because this is a state owned and heavily bailed out bank laying off thousands of employees, there is no way I am staying with them if they are introducing fees like this. Never mind the fact that they are outrageous.

    Why doesnt our absolutely useless government do something about this...

    No they won't. A strange fact is that you're more likely to get divorced than change bank. Changing bank is a awful lot of hassle and you run the risk of missing payments.


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    #100
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    murphm45 wrote: »
    I'm sure there's some sarcastic overtone here that i'm not quite picking up on but you just need something that proves you live at the address you give them(an existing bank statement will do), although it does raise the interesting question of what do you do when you open your first account...

    No sarcasm at all--opening a bank account is incredibly difficult for homeless people--much more difficult than for non-homeless people.
    murphm45 wrote: »
    Finally, i think whoever runs AIB are just stupid. They clearly don't want any customers. A friend of mine has a savings account with them (it used to be with Anglo but was transferred to them) and he's after being told it's too small for them and they'll be sending him a cheque! Ehh sorry lads how exactly does that work?! Do you not need deposits to allow you to lend and make money?

    Seriously? :eek: That's shocking. Feck them--hope he takes it to a bank who appreciates his business.


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    #101
    murphm45
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭murphm45


    Africa wrote: »
    This is a really, really stupid move. Thousands are going to leave their bank and go to Ulster Bank. And rightfully so. I wont have to pay cause Ive a student account, but out of principle because this is a state owned and heavily bailed out bank laying off thousands of employees, there is no way I am staying with them if they are introducing fees like this. Never mind the fact that they are outrageous.

    Why doesnt our absolutely useless government do something about this...

    The problem is there's a real double edged sword here, on the one hand they have to repay the money the state gave to them as quickly as possible and the only way they can do this is by making money. unfortunately bank fees are an element of this. On the other hand though it does come across a bit as biting the hand that feeds you.

    I do have a degree of sympathy for their situation but they seem to be taking the easy/least imaginative options
    Millicent wrote: »
    No sarcasm at all--opening a bank account is incredibly difficult for homeless people--much more difficult than for non-homeless people.

    Sorry serious questions feel out of place in AH
    Millicent wrote: »
    Seriously? :eek: That's shocking. Feck them--hope he takes it to a bank who appreciates his business.

    I really wish it wasn't but it is, apparently the old anglo business is being used for "big money" and his isn't big enough. There probably is an element of this i'm missing but this is what i was told.


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