That is so totally gay, omg.

Asry · 19-06-2011 4:11pm #1

Sorry. Sorry sorry sorry. But there's another question I need to ask or my brain will explode.

So here it goes:

Is saying something is 'gay' derogatory towards gay people?

Example: "Not being able to flip onto that ledge (in Assassin's Creed) is so ghey."

[said by my boyfriend like 10 minutes ago. Why he insists in giving me a running commentary while playing the Xbox, I don't know, but seeing as he's going to continue doing it, you're all getting this question]

Furthermore, if not being able to flip onto ledges in Assassin's Creed is agreed by general consensus to be 'ghey', I would like to propose the following demarcation symbol to be used on Pride flags.

assassinscreedlogo-1.png

PJelly · 19-06-2011 4:32pm

I personally don't see it as derogatory, as I've basically been desensitized to it in secondary school. I even say it myself sometimes, probably not the best thing to do but it's a habit at this stage. Among teenage lads it basically seen as another form of "Crap". With no thinking as to what the word actually means. So I don't see any malice behind it.

Killer_banana · 19-06-2011 4:42pm

I think it started out as a derogatory term but has since evolved into just something meaning bad or lame or uncool. A lot of people don't seem to even realise what they're saying. I remember when it bothered me I brought my friend up on it and she was like 'But I don't mean gay as in the sexuality, I mean gay as in bad.' she saw it as two different terms. I think most people do nowadays.

spurious · 19-06-2011 4:57pm

I find it offensive, even if it 'just' means lame or uncool.

It's generally used by idiots though, so it's a good screener of the cretin brigade. I put it firmly in the 'n word' category, to which the former statement also applies.

Annasopra · 19-06-2011 4:57pm

Killer_banana wrote: »

I think it started out as a derogatory term but has since evolved into just something meaning bad or lame or uncool. A lot of people don't seem to even realise what they're saying. I remember when it bothered me I brought my friend up on it and she was like 'But I don't mean gay as in the sexuality, I mean gay as in bad.' she saw it as two different terms. I think most people do nowadays.

I still see that as being used in a derogatory sense

This article is pretty much close to my view on it

http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Commentary/Covert_Hate_Speech_Thats_So_Gay/

Using “gay” as a negative to describe anything might seem harmless, but what kind of damage can this type of slang have on a young boy struggling with his sexuality or one still forming his view of gays and lesbians? In the fight for equality, can the LGBT community afford a cavalier attitude toward hate speech that attempts to fly under the radar?

Dudess · 19-06-2011 5:01pm

As with many sayings that aren't to everyone's taste, intent is the clincher for me - rarely is offence towards gay people meant when it's used to denote "lame" or "uncool". If anything, when I hear it from adults, it tends to be kinda ironic and taking the piss out of kids who use it... and those adults include gay ones.

mikemac · 19-06-2011 5:07pm

The meaning has changed, it didn't mean uncool when I was in school in the 90's.
Hah, I sound old

Now though it's everywhere, terrible performance from Liverpool so gay, my new computer game is gay.
Not meant in a bad way

But then on meaning changing; queer was negative as I remember and yet it's used in here all the time, almost like the word has been embraced and taken ownership of.

I can't keep up

Lorrrrraine · 19-06-2011 5:16pm

Yeah, I don't like it and will let people know. I'll keep letting them know until they stop too, it's so ignorant.

Asry · 19-06-2011 5:32pm

Hmmm. I used to get very angry about people using it that way. I suppose it matters most only if it offends you? It's people who give words power after all.

I vaguely remember having a chat with him about it years ago, when I cared about it enough to do so. But are people who are labelled 'gay' in graffiti therefore 'lame and uncool' or homosexual which = bad?

I wouldn't say that by using it my boyfriend is 'ignorant' or an 'idiot', however, thank you. It has entered common parlance, after all.

Da Bounca · 19-06-2011 5:39pm

Lorrrrraine wrote: »

I'll keep letting them know until they stop too

Have you told many people to stop using the word and have they stopped?

rainbow kirby · 19-06-2011 6:42pm

To me, it really does show that the person who used it has a terminal lack of vocabulary.

baby and crumble · 19-06-2011 6:42pm

It's similar in many ways to the use of the word "retard" or "retarded" to mean something stupid or ridiculous. Many people think that's ok, but if you speak to people with intellectual disabilities, many of them think it's horrible and get very upset. The world is basically telling them they're stupid. Flip that into the use of the word 'gay' to mean bad or lame, and while many people using the term don't think of gay people that way, it still hurts, I think.

Then again I think using the word 'retarded' is way worse than using the word 'gay', mostly because people with disabilities can't/don't have the confidence to defend themselves.

(Sorry, I get VERY angry about it)

wonderfulname · 19-06-2011 7:03pm

Personally I go by intention, if there's no offence meant I won't take any, but overall it isn't really an okay usage of the word. It can cause a lot of distress to some people and should definitely be stomped out in schools.

Zoegh - I think the word 'retarded' is considerably worse than the word gay because the link is most definitely there between the original usage and the slang, this isn't really the case with the word gay - the slang doesn't mean homosexual, retarded means 'like an old disability stereotype', quite disgusting really.

xsiborg · 19-06-2011 7:10pm

i find it ironic to see how people are upset by the co-opting of the word gay to mean "ridiculous" or "pathetic" nowadays when the word "gay" itself would have originally meant "happy", eg: the flintstones cartoon- "we'll have a gay old time" is the one that foremost for me anyway springs to mind.

"queer" isnt a word i'd have too often a use for, as i usually tend to say "strange"...

i think the importance here is context, as one poster said earlier, the word "ghey" being a new word that has come into common usage. i think some people may perhaps just be feigning over-sensitivity just to differentiate themselves in a "that's OUR word, we had it first!" kind of way when the simple fact of the matter is that no you didnt-

the word gay originally meant happy, then it meant homosexual, ("jump in and miss the point to correct me" quotes follow shortly!) now it means pathetic, and such is the english language.

i dont think it is meant in any way offensively as the word "homo" was often aimed at boys when i was growing up and educated in a christian brothers school and it didnt afffect my understanding of my own sexuality, particularly because i had no idea what the instigator of the insult meant. my point being that an insult only works if the insultee understands the meaning and context.

and to my understanding the word ghey is usually an informal term used among friends to portray them in a light hearted manner as pathetic, and the insultee understands that this in no way alludes to their sexual orientation, im sure there are many gay people who have been called ghey and understand that it has no relevance to their sexual orientation.

this just sounds like over-sensitivity to me and i cant see the word going out of common usage any time soon. its there to stay, along with the pet hate phrase so often bandied about now too- "O.M.G."... :mad:

but thats for another thread!

krankykitty · 19-06-2011 7:13pm

When I was in school (a long, long time ago!), the phrase "That is so gay" was used to describe public displays of affection, for example "Look at Linda there kissing Paul all night, they're so gay". Or, "Look at the big Valentines card he gave her, that's so gay"

We were pretty stupid back then

I think it was all jealousy really!

It is pretty insulting when something is being called "gay" to mean that it's bad, but I think a lot of people just don't think, and would be genuinely horrified if they took the time to think about what they are actually saying.

hare05 · 19-06-2011 7:15pm

It's a status denominator. Anyone who can't think up a more interesting term to insult you with must themselves be lame and uncool. They must also be uneducated as it isn't too hard to learn a new word once every few months.

wonderfulname · 19-06-2011 7:19pm

The problem isn't in the evolution of the language, the problem is in the coexistence of two very different definitions of the same word. Most people can separate these, some people cannot, especially (from my understanding) young, closeted, LGBT people who have to hear the negative usage a lot more often than we do.

Another thing about language is that we always have taboo words, is it about time to treat the slang use of 'gay' as one? Effectively give it an 18s label and not use it in polite conversation? After all c*nt is taboo, not because of its looser usage but because of its literal meaning, as is f*ggot, again not for its modern usage but for its connotations.

Aishae · 19-06-2011 7:20pm

rainbow kirby wrote: »

To me, it really does show that the person who used it has a terminal lack of vocabulary.

too true. when we should be saying 'that is so depasse!' or 'about as much fun as an angiogram'.

really i think im desensitized to it too.

but i do think its a bit unimaginative at least.

Dudess · 19-06-2011 7:25pm

Way too much assumptions that there's implied homophobia when people aren't even thinking about gay people if they say it. I'd say it jokingly, tongue-in-cheek (think of The Simpsons' "Ew, you kissed a girl - that is SO GAY!") - I think only teenagers would use it unselfconsciously. I'm not homophobic, surely that's all that matters? I can understand why people would have a problem with "fa**ot" even in a jokey context, but that word is used solely to attack gay men, the word "gay" isn't.

"Idiot" and "imbecile" used to refer to a mentally disabled person, and "bastard" no longer means what it did in the past. Words are fluid - intent and context are often, not always but often, of much more concern than the mere word.

apache · 19-06-2011 7:26pm

wonderfulname wrote: »

The problem isn't in the evolution of the language, the problem is in the coexistence of two very different definitions of the same word. Most people can separate these, some people cannot, especially (from my understanding) young, closeted, LGBT people who have to hear the negative usage a lot more often than we do.

Another thing about language is that we always have taboo words, is it about time to treat the slang use of 'gay' as one? Effectively give it an 18s label and not use it in polite conversation? After all c*nt is taboo, not because of its looser usage but because of its literal meaning, as is f*ggot, again not for its modern usage but for its connotations.

i always use these words. i get given out a lot for it.

i use them in banter and get also called them a lot by members of the straight and quiltbag or quiltpipe or hornpipe "community" or whatever that word is.

its hardly a reflection of a lack of vocabulary.

wonderfulname · 19-06-2011 7:29pm

I use them too, but I wouldn't use them in a school or work setting, it wouldn't be at all acceptable, and I wouldn't use them in front of a young person or someone I didn't really know. Should the same rules be applied with 'gay'?

Annasopra · 19-06-2011 7:35pm

Dudess wrote: »

Way too much assumptions that there's implied homophobia when people aren't even thinking about gay people if they say it. I'd say it jokingly, tongue-in-cheek (think of The Simpsons' "Ew, you kissed a girl - that is SO GAY!") - I think only teenagers would use it unselfconsciously. I'm not homophobic, surely that's all that matters? I can understand why people would have a problem with "fa**ot" even in a jokey context, but that word is used solely to attack gay men, the word "gay" isn't.

"Idiot" and "imbecile" used to refer to a mentally disabled person, and "bastard" no longer means what it did in the past. Words are fluid - intent and context are often, not always but often, of much more concern than the mere word.

To me the context do matter in a way. It's about using a word that denotes peoples sexuality in a context that is negative. To me this links and associates being gay with negativity, with something to be ashamed of.

apache · 19-06-2011 7:37pm

@ greatname i suppose so. every circumstance is different. you would just use cop on.

but i see no harm where no intent is meant.

to see harm and take offense is just tiring now at this stage.

mikemac · 19-06-2011 7:42pm

bastard is an interesting one
With so many unmarried couples these days sure we all know their young lads but it's something people would never ever say with this intent.
But pick up a law book, even an Irish law book and you'll find bastard and illegitimate

I was posting this morning over in Travel forum about the lunatic drivers in Rome. They are realy agressive!
But I don't mean they are mad or mentally ill.

Context I suppose.

Dudess · 19-06-2011 7:44pm

Johnnymcg wrote: »

To me the context do matter in a way. It's about using a word that denotes peoples sexuality in a context that is negative. To me this links and associates being gay with negativity, with something to be ashamed of.

Yeah, fair enough - but the "Obviously people who say it are thick" comments are being thrown out at a rate of knots. No, they're not necessarily thick. And it's often used ironically, which in itself signifies the person using it doesn't really believe it.

apache · 19-06-2011 7:47pm

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, fair enough - but the "Obviously people who say it are thick" comments are being thrown out at a rate of knots. No, they're not necessarily thick. And it's often used ironically, which in itself signifies the person using it doesn't really believe it.

i agree dudess. that is ignorant in itself. oh the irony

I_am_LOST · 19-06-2011 7:52pm

It always amazes me how some people are so sensitive as to be offended by someone saying 'thats so gay' lol

Lorrrrraine · 19-06-2011 8:07pm

Da Bounca wrote: »

Have you told many people to stop using the word and have they stopped?

Yeah, countless.

I explain that:

1). It makes them sound like they've got a really limited vocabulary.
2). It makes them sound ignorant.

And then if they say that they don't care how it makes them sound I tell them that their gay friends get enough **** from actual bigots and shouldn't have to hear it from people they're close to.

They usually get awkward about then and to hit my point home I say, "hey you identify as (insert whatever here, say female) what if people used feminine as a synonym for bad?As is, ugh, his driving is feminine. Would you let somebody say that?" That usually makes them understand.

apache · 19-06-2011 8:17pm

i often tell my male friends that they drive like a big girl.

i must be a terrible person

Chuchoter · 19-06-2011 9:09pm

zoegh wrote: »

It's similar in many ways to the use of the word "retard" or "retarded" to mean something stupid or ridiculous. Many people think that's ok, but if you speak to people with intellectual disabilities, many of them think it's horrible and get very upset. The world is basically telling them they're stupid. Flip that into the use of the word 'gay' to mean bad or lame, and while many people using the term don't think of gay people that way, it still hurts, I think.

Then again I think using the word 'retarded' is way worse than using the word 'gay', mostly because people with disabilities can't/don't have the confidence to defend themselves.

(Sorry, I get VERY angry about it)

I think using retard in that way is nearly worse than gay as well because you are attacking a group that doesn't get much of a chance to speak up for itself. I used to say it a lot but then I came across a poem on the subject written and it really changed my opinion on it.

In terms of thats so gay and the like though, I don't think people who say it mean it in a bad way but I think it reflects an undercurrent of homophobia in our society that a lot of people don't want to admit to. Gay is bad, using it to express anything crap or annoying only furthers that and if you are young and gay and raised in a society that constantly drip feeds you gay is bad, its not exactly helpful.

PJelly · 19-06-2011 9:17pm

I personally don't agree with the fact that people are linking "gay" with "bad", it just so happens that the "word du jour" for bad happens to be "gay".
I guess I'm one of these "young gays" as I'm doing my leaving now, but all through secondary school I've always heard people say things like gay, f*ggot and queer. Though I always knew that they didn't mean something like "Oh this homework is so homosexual" I know they're saying it's crap, annoying etc.
They never actually stop to think "I'm calling this thing gay".
Like with B*astard. It's just a generic insult now. And the person saying it never actually means "You're a person who's birth lacks legal legitimacy". They tend to be saying "You're a prick".
That's just my view on it

That is so totally gay, omg.

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