Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2013

1323335373853

Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    This is just populist political bluster. If you state someone is lying you should at least try and substantiate it. The quoted comment does not do so in any manner as it is your opinion, not fact.

    Sometimes I wonder if you are Phil Hogan? :P

    To put it another way, he is not telling the truth. Read the article in today's Irish Independent...selective populist political answers!


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Hairy mellon


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Sometimes I wonder if you are Phil Hogan? :P

    To put it another way, he is not telling the truth. Read the article in today's Irish Independent...selective populist political answers!

    Industry estimates overall cost si9 in 2014 will be €600m across all sectrs

    Recurring cost €500m

    No proper analysis done on this


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,136 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    This is just populist political bluster. If you state someone is lying you should at least try and substantiate it. The quoted comment does not do so in any manner as it is your opinion, not fact.

    Calm it down and keep it civil. 4Sticks clearly gave his reasoning behind his comment in his post.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    The vast majority of "architects" have an awful lot of catching up to do.

    I will not necessarily disagree with you...but I would sugest you saying 'the vast majority' is simply sensationalist.

    Regulars on here know your opinion on architects...so lets just pass on that one, that is off topic, this thread is not about architects.
    Contractors fees are not going to rocket overnight for some extra paperwork.

    Possibly not, but I don't think you really know what you're on about, you obviously are blissfully unaware of what's coming down the track for you.

    Contractors 'fees' may not change hugely, but they are still going to 10%, 20%, 25%, or more, over and above what the self builder can build a house for. Time = money.
    ..."extra" responsibility is going to cost...

    Extra responsibility = extra time = extra cost.

    As PH said today, the market will dictate. Lets wait and see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Hairy mellon


    You are absolutely right contractors fees will pretty much stay the same. On an average house prelims, attendance and profit should come in between 12 and 15%. Conservative estimates of si9 professional costs around 3-5% build cost. So not huge

    A agerage year sees 60% housing built by self builders, assuming role of contractor. 2012 there was 10500 houses built so 6300 self builds

    Iaosb estimates at the lower end 1800 builds will be abandoned by persons who will not be able to pay15% extra on cost of house, at lower end of spectrum

    On an average build cost of €180k si9 Costs a self builder conservatively €23k

    This is a big number

    Imho govt and minister have miscalculated this and will pay a hugempolitical cost in 97 days in elections

    Si9 could easily have been deferred, fixed and reintroduced without anyone noticing

    The self builders are a huge cort and are all around e country. We are not talking about a few disenfranchised professionals- we are talking anout thousands of ordinary citizens exposed in this

    Tuis is only starting on 1st march and will get worse as implementation issues reveal themselves

    At cpd on monday last riai survey confirmed 95% architects mot ready for si9 and 75% expect significant delays

    This will only kick off properly after march. Bcms only being road tested this week!


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Conservative estimates of si9 professional costs around 3-5% build cost.

    This would be on top of/in addition to other professional fees, i.e. in addition to you standard design and planning fees that would have been incurred prior to SI 9, I assume?


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Hairy mellon


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    This would be on top of/in addition to other professional fees, i.e. in addition to you standard design and planning fees that would have been incurred prior to SI 9, I assume?

    Yes in addition

    Other preliminary estimates are a little high-mi have heard 100 hiurs extra for a certifier for si9

    For an engineer on a salary of €46k this equates to €60 per hour so €6k for design and assined certifier role. Then there are addrional costs for other members if design team, contractor and subcontractors etc to comply with si9. €5k all in is quite conservative as total si9 cost in addition to other professional costs


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Sometimes I wonder if you are Phil Hogan? :P
    I'm rumbled...

    Seriously though some of this Joe Duffy type uninformed commentary makes me wonder. I have no graw for this particular minister but he is doing his job whether I like it or not. Shouting that he tells lies is like dealing with the issue in the schoolyard: 'Hogan is lying' vs. 'no hes not, your lying' etc.

    At cpd on monday last riai survey confirmed 95% architects mot ready for si9 and 75% expect significant delays

    This will only kick off properly after march. Bcms only being road tested this week!
    Were they rubbing their hands together; The comments from potential certifiers sound like some of them are trying to line up a potential bonanza.


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Hairy mellon


    I'm rumbled...

    Seriously though some of this Joe Duffy type uninformed commentary makes me wonder. I have no graw for this particular minister but he is doing his job whether I like it or not. Shouting that he tells lies is like dealing with the issue in the schoolyard: 'Hogan is lying' vs. 'no hes not, your lying' etc.


    Were they rubbing their hands together; The comments from potential certifiers sound like some of them are trying to line up a potential bonanza.

    Actually i thought amanda the wife of the self builder was remarkably well briefed on the facts

    She even made reference to recent riai letters to ministers requesting deferral and dates

    Also she would appear to be ahead of everyone else in That she was aware of legal advice ontained by Iaosb confirming self building no longer possible after 1st march

    I am only aware of contradictory statements made by minister in written answers and also by department at seminars and in doumentation and advice

    I have not seen independent legal advice issued by deparment yet on issue of self builders


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Were they rubbing their hands together; The comments from potential certifiers sound like some of them are trying to line up a potential bonanza.

    I doubt it. Yes, it will bring work, but, it is a double edged sword (I would suggest).

    For those of us busy working away at the moment (as I am lucky enough to be) I would pass on it, for now, or be very selective as to what projects I would be willing to accept.

    Many architects will not act as design and/or assigned certifiers.

    As I stated before, I believe the pool of design and/or assigned certifiers, especially for 'third party' projects, is going to be very limited, so, again, as PH suggests...the market will dictate (the cost).


  • Advertisement
  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I'm rumbled...

    Seriously though some of this Joe Duffy type uninformed commentary makes me wonder. I have no graw for this particular minister but he is doing his job whether I like it or not. Shouting that he tells lies is like dealing with the issue in the schoolyard: 'Hogan is lying' vs. 'no hes not, your lying' etc.


    Were they rubbing their hands together; The comments from potential certifiers sound like some of them are trying to line up a potential bonanza.

    where do you think the "(un)informed commentary" is supposed to come from?

    The DOE publication of the guidance leaflet has contradictions inherent.
    The localgov.ie website FAQs has contradications, and it was taken down and re-edited after it was made live.
    the minister himself has contradicted himself in two recent speeches hes given.

    the regs and the Code of practise ie the actual legal documents, say one thing, but people are supposed to take contradictory statement by some DOE civil servant over these?

    how can anyone make informed decisions when the supposed "informed commentary" from those that are supposedly in the know, are contradicting themselves all over the place........

    I was well impressed by that woman on JD, she came on with very well researched information.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by Hairy mellon View Post

    Conservative estimates of si9 professional costs around 3-5% build cost
    DOCARCH wrote: »
    This would be on top of/in addition to other professional fees, i.e. in addition to you standard design and planning fees that would have been incurred prior to SI 9, I assume?

    I think this will depend on what route the Self builder went. If the SB went with a full practice who offered a full package this might be true. It would cost maybe an extra 3-5%.

    However if this SB wished to get a Designer(tech) to do just planning and then got Engineer to do the Supervision then this may no longer be an option and will have to go with the larger practices with large overheads which by nature will have to charge more then this 3-5% figure is totally wrong.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    The DOE publication of the guidance leaflet has contradictions inherent.
    The localgov.ie website FAQs has contradications, and it was taken down and re-edited after it was made live.
    the minister himself has contradicted himself in two recent speeches hes given.

    the regs and the Code of practise ie the actual legal documents, say one thing, but people are supposed to take contradictory statement by some DOE civil servant over these?

    how can anyone make informed decisions when the supposed "informed commentary" from those that are supposedly in the know, are contradicting themselves all over the place........

    That's basically why potential design and assigned certifiers are not rubbing thier hands...and that's why implementation needs to be deferred...amongst other reasons.

    It will be a wait and see approach from many.


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭jiminho


    Time to move on now and get with the changes.

    This made me laugh. I'm not sure you appreciate the impact on cost this will have. It's all well and good saying that the people who go down this specific route (i.e. get an architect to design and contractor to build) will only see a marginal but still significant cost increase but what about the people who want to have more control over there project. What if I want to design and be my own general contractor? We're talking at least 30%. And also, are all these builders who have been building for years, are they now considered competent by fact. If he wasn't enveloped in all these court problems, would Tom McFeely be considered a competent builder?

    So now that you need 3 years of building experience to build a home, how do new builders get it in the first place? Would they have to do some commercial and industrial work first? I'm not clear on this point. Will prices now increase? Lastly, does anyone know another country out there that doesn't allow self build?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    I was well impressed by that woman on JD, she came on with very well researched information.

    I was not listening to Joe Duffy- I don't think you are the only one getting your information from there though :pac::pac::pac:
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    where do you think the "(un)informed commentary" is supposed to come from?

    The DOE publication of the guidance leaflet has contradictions inherent.
    The localgov.ie website FAQs has contradications, and it was taken down and re-edited after it was made live.
    the minister himself has contradicted himself in two recent speeches hes given.

    the regs and the Code of practise ie the actual legal documents, say one thing, but people are supposed to take contradictory statement by some DOE civil servant over these?

    how can anyone make informed decisions when the supposed "informed commentary" from those that are supposedly in the know, are contradicting themselves all over the place........

    The information is contradictory- I agree. There is however much uninformed comment and hyperbole from people who are objecting to the regulations as it suits their own circumstances to do so in many (not all) cases. I have removed peoples user names as I don't wish to be overly confrontational.
    Are you aware what is happening with GSOC, a supposedly independent watchdog that is in crisis precisely because it's oversight has been compromised by too much influence from 'vested interests' and by the fact that it hasn't been set up properly.
    I would call the CIF, a vested interest here. The regulation should be conducted by an independent body.
    I think the 1800 self Builders who will be abandoning their house builds every year would not agree
    Forgive me for having no faith in independent oversight in this country at the moment. It is very much a case of wait and see. But my opinion is that the baby has been thrown out with the bath water already.
    Hogan is lying to all. He is making it easier for the state to never again have to rescue another Priory Hall and suburban development blighted by Pyrite and has inflicted collateral damage on self builders and architectural technicians in the process. He protects the state not it's citizens with the mock pretence only of improving consumers rights.

    all these codified roles etc. are just putting lipstick on the gorilla


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    I was not listening to Joe Duffy- I don't think you are the only one getting your information from there though :pac::pac::pac:



    The information is contradictory- I agree. There is however much uninformed comment and hyperbole from people who are objecting to the regulations as it suits their own circumstances to do so in many (not all) cases. I have removed peoples user names as I don't wish to be overly confrontational.


    Seems to me it is the 'professionals' that are in disarray and it's showing no signs that it is going to change anytime soon.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    1. I was not listening to Joe Duffy- I don't think you are the only one getting your information from there though :pac::pac::pac:



    2. The information is contradictory- I agree. There is however much uninformed comment and hyperbole from people who are objecting to the regulations as it suits their own circumstances to do so in many (not all) cases. I have removed peoples user names as I don't wish to be overly confrontational.

    1 im not getting my information from there. But in the vacuum of any public advertising from the DOE, its shows like that where public opinion is formed... like it or not.

    2. im not quite sure what your point is? people have been giving opinions... and yes some hyperbole is included, as it always is when there is no clear direction from government....

    so what exactly is your point? the information is contradictory, which leads to confusion... but you dont think people should be confused???


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Seems to me it is the 'professionals' that are in disarray and it's showing no signs that it is going to change anytime soon.

    Given the details Syd posted what would you expect ? 'professionals' and others are indeed in dissarry which emanates from the DOE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,136 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The information is contradictory- I agree. There is however much uninformed comment and hyperbole from people who are objecting to the regulations as it suits their own circumstances to do so in many (not all) cases. I have removed peoples user names as I don't wish to be overly confrontational.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Seems to me it is the 'professionals' that are in disarray and it's showing no signs that it is going to change anytime soon.

    It's the 'professionals' who'll be responsible for signing the entire project off.
    It's the 'professionals' who'll have to be able to explain all this to clients.
    It's the 'professionals' who'll be more liable legally for things which might be outside of their control.
    It's the 'professionals' who have been largely ignored when they've raised valid concerns to the Minister and Department.

    Clients will have their costs go up. Self-builders are all but gone other than small domestic extensions. Contractors haven't been kept informed enough of the changes they'll have to implement.

    This SI affects almost everyone in the construction industry in some way shape or form, and 3 days before it's due to come into effect there are still valid criticisms, contradictions and ambiguity in the proposed legislation.

    Yes, many posters here (myself included) are professionals in the construction industry, hence why a large section of the discussion tends to be directed that way. But there are valid concerns and points to be raised. We all need to be mindful of scaremongering and hyperbole in order to maintain a rational and reasoned discussion, but that doesn't make the concerns raised any less important.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    There will be plenty of hype about beyond these pages . Not even started yet.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    people who are objecting to the regulations as it suits their own circumstances to do so

    Is that not the usual and perfectly valid reason to object to anything?

    You can regard that as a rhetorical question.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    This text continues to puzzle and I offer my own view on it
    12. Can I build my own house myself or by direct labour?

    Yes. You may appoint yourself as the builder and sign the Certificate of compliance (Undertaking by Builder). As the builder, you are responsible for compliance with the Building Regulations. You must sign the Certificate of Compliance on Completion and you must also appoint an Assigned Certifier to inspect the works during construction.

    As an owner, how can I appoint a competent builder?

    A competent person may generally be regarded as a person who possesses sufficient training, experience, and knowledge to enable them to undertake the project tasks they are required to perform having regard to the nature of the project and its scale and complexity. Competence can be verified, for instance, by reference to involvement on previous similar projects. One way of choosing a competent builder is to select a builder included on the Construction Industry Register Ireland (CIRI). Further details may be found on http://www.ciri.ie

    This text is really answering the question

    "If I am already a builder can I self build my own home ? " With that in mind the text makes some sense.

    It is not properly or clearly ( in my opinion) addressing the question "If I am NOT already a builder can I self build my own home ? " .

    In a very garbled manner it is giving an answer to that question - and the answer is no.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    4Sticks wrote: »
    This text continues to puzzle and I offer my own view on it



    This text is really answering the question

    "If I am already a builder can I self build my own home ? " With that in mind the text makes some sense.

    It is not properly or clearly ( in my opinion) addressing the question "If I am NOT already a builder can I self build my own home ? " .

    In a very garbled manner it is giving an answer to that question - and the answer is no.

    As i alluded to earlier in this thread, that's my reading of it too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    4Sticks wrote: »
    This text continues to puzzle and I offer my own view on it



    This text is really answering the question

    "If I am already a builder can I self build my own home ? " With that in mind the text makes some sense.

    It is not properly or clearly ( in my opinion) addressing the question "If I am NOT already a builder can I self build my own home ? " .

    In a very garbled manner it is giving an answer to that question - and the answer is no.
    I queried this exact question in relation to the council guidelines and answer was, yes if a certifier is willing to take their chances.

    As per this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89201816&postcount=1020


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭mullingar


    I emailed my local TD's with that new IAOSB letter

    http://www.iaosb.com/take%20action,%20join%20the%20campaign%20and%20stand%20up%20for%20your%20rights.html

    Dear TD Nicky McFadden,

    Re: Building Control (Amendment) Regulation S.I 9 of 2014

    I am making this complaint as a soon to be self-builder and citizen of Ireland. I strongly fee my rights as an Irish and European citizen are being infringed upon with recent legislation. When the Building Control (Amendment) Regulation (SI.9 of 2014) comes into force on 1st March 2014 I will no longer be able to act as a Builder on my own house, co-ordinating other sub-contractors on the build. As this legislation requires an established builder, someone with at least 3 years similar building experience to undertake this role, the attendant costs of employing a main contractor will mean that I will not be able to undertake to build my own house. Contrary to numerous written statements by Minister Phil Hogan recent legal advice obtained by the representative body for self-builders the Irish Association of Self-Builders (IASOB) has confirmed that self-building, or undertaking the role of main contractor on dwellings, will no longer be possible under the new legislation.

    The tradition of building one's own home has been established in Ireland for generations. Acting as a co-ordinating main contractor an owner can make considerable savings on build costs allowing many the only opportunity to own a house. Self-built houses frequently are more cost- effective to build to a higher specification than many speculatively built offerings. The additional cost to build this using normal procurement methods would be over 12% more than if I was to adopt the role of main contractor myself. I will not be able to afford to commence building my own house as a result.

    I believe the current legislation restricts my right as a European Citizen. A voluntary register of contractors under the control of a private company, the Construction Industry Federation (CIF) has been created to facilitate SI.9. The government specifically mentions this voluntary register (CIRI) in SI.9 and it is planned to introduce primary legislation to put this on a statutory footing. The completion certificate for the "Builder" in SI.9 states the builder's completion certificate "must be signed by the director or principal of a building company only". In effect this precludes owners such as myself from undertaking this role.

    The representative body for self-builders the IAOSB have indicated approximately 17% of all housing starts may be abandoned due to the increased costs of buildings created by SI.9 on self-builders. We are the silent majority here with industry estimates of over 60% of all housing completed nationwide being self-built dwellings. This year the IAOSB suggest almost 1800 self-built house projects will be abandoned as a direct result of BC(A)R SI.9.

    The structure of self-certification and codified roles inherent in SI.9 is defective and interferes with my rights as a European citizen to provide shelter in a cost-effective manner for my family. Elsewhere in the EU, the normal arrangement is a system of independent local authority inspections; in the UK there are a system of independent inspections and Independent regulation of the construction industry. Under this system I can operate as a builder and "self-build" domestic projects. There is no question that any self-builds in the UK or elsewhere in the EU are in some way deficient or less compliant than other forms of procurement. Self-building is a valid and essential way for citizens to undertake cost-effective construction of their own houses in a financially friendly way. The existing reinforced system in Ireland of self-certification and codified roles inherent in SI.9 is defective and interferes with my rights as a European Citizen to provide shelter in a cost-effective manner for my family.

    For persons such as myself undertaking self-builds after 1st March the legal advice obtained by the IAOSB indicates we will be non-compliant, and as such will not be able to have our completion documentation validated by Local Authorities. As there is no mechanism in the regulation to obtain this local authority validation retrospectively this suggests self-builds, commenced after 1st March 2014,may encounter conveyancing issues and re-financing problems later on. This situation is of grave concern.

    The current form of SI.9 and the proposed register of builders ends this tradition and infringes on the rights of Irish and EU citizens. I deserve better treatment by my government. I will not be able to afford to commence building my own house as a result of Building Control (Amendment) Regulation (SI.9 of 2014). I should to have the right to build my own home and provide for my family.

    I look forward to hearing from you soon.

    Regards


    Me!

    25th Feb 2014

    I got this reply!


    Xxxx,

    On behalf of Nicky McFadden TD, thank you very much for your email in relation to the situation regarding new building regulations and self-builds.

    Nicky will certainly raise your concerns regarding your inability to afford to commence building your own house as a result of the Building Control (Amendment) Regulation S.1.9 with Minister for Environment, Community & Local Government Phil Hogan.

    In the meantime, below is the most recent information Nicky received from Minister Hogan on the issue - a Parliamentary Question response to Maureen O'Sullivan TD dated February 12th.

    Nicky has also asked me to explain that she is not in a position to make contact with you directly due to illness.

    We will come back to you as soon as possible. Thank you again for your correspondence.


    Kind Regards


    Una

    Una Mulhall

    Parliamentary Assistant



    __________________________
    NICKY MCFADDEN TD
    Longford/Westmeath Constituency
    Athlone Office Tel: 090 6478004
    Mullingar Office Tel: 044 9390534
    Dáil Tel: 01 6183938
    Email: nicky.mcfadden@oireachtas.ie
    Website: www.nickymcfadden.ie



    Question Nos. 137 and 138


    Chun an Aire Comhshaoil, Pobail agus Rialtais Áitiúil:
    To the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government:

    To ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will respond to correspondence sent by the Irish Association of Self Builders which sought clarification to correspondence sent from the RIAI to his Department regarding the Building Control (Amendment) S.I. 9 Regulations (details supplied); if the code of practice for inspections has been finalised or not to date; if the electronic systems for lodgement of commencement notices and design certificates have been tested or rolled out; questions surrounding the updating of construction contract forms; the issue of the finalised versions of the design and completion certificates and if they are available; and if his attention has been drawn to the potential increasing risk of unforeseen delay in construction projects, embroiling new contracts in claims for additional payments, and increased cost for building owners, for commissioning bodies and house purchases.

    To ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if he will clarify in relation to the Statutory Instrument 9 of the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations to be enacted in March 2014, if an owner who intends to build who accepts responsibility and ensures that building or work concerned complies with the requirements of the second schedule to the building regulation, and if the owner does everything necessary to achieve this and signs the certification on completion, taking legal responsibility as a builder, if they can then go ahead and self- build; and if so, should the wording, to be signed by a Principal or Director of a building company only, under the Certification Section in the Building Control Amendment S.I. 9, be removed as self-builders may not be a principal or director of a building company; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    - Maureen O'Sullivan.


    For WRITTEN answer on Wednesday, 12th February, 2014.

    Ref Nos: 7123/14 and 7124/14


    REPLY

    Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Mr. P. Hogan)

    I propose to take Questions Nos. 137 and 138 together.

    A reply to the Irish Association of Self Builders will issue within the next week.

    The Code of Practice for Inspecting and Certifying Buildings and Works has now been finalised and was circulated to industry stakeholders on 7 February 2014.

    The new online Building Control Management System will provide a common platform for clear and consistent administration of building control matters across the local authority sector. Briefing and guidance for local authority staff on the new system has begun in recent weeks and arrangements are being made to brief key industry stakeholders on 17 February 2014, before the system is made publicly available in advance of 1 March 2014.

    The prescribed forms of the statutory certificates of compliance required at design and completion stage of a construction project are included in the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2014 as signed into law on 15 January 2014.

    The impact of the Regulations for building owners and commissioning bodies and, in particular, the implications for projects currently subject to tender or for which contracts have recently been signed were addressed in the reply to Question No. 119 of 29 January 2014. My Department is continuing to liaise closely with the relevant Departments and agencies in relation to this aspect of the matter.

    Concerns that the new regulations prevent a self-build situation are unfounded although all house-builders must comply with them. An owner who intends to self-build will, as before, assume legal responsibility for ensuring that building or works concerned are compliant and will be required, as builder, to sign the Undertaking by the Builder and the Certificate of Compliance on Completion.

    Arrangements for a smooth transition to the new regulatory environment are well in hand and my Department will continue to work with all parties to ensure they understand their obligations and the steps necessary to meet them.

    -ENDS-


    Inactive hide details for xxxxcc--25/02/2014 22:30:06---Dear TD Nicky McFadden, Re: Building Control (Amendment) Regulation xxxcxc---25/02/2014 22:30:06---Dear TD Nicky McFadden, Re: Building Control (Amendment) Regulation S.I 9 of 2014

    From: xxxxxxccc@gmail.com>
    To: nicky.mcfadden@oireachtas.ie
    Date: 25/02/2014 22:30
    Subject: New building regs and self-builds.
    ▶ Show quoted text


    Oireachtas email policy and disclaimer.
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/about/oireachtasemailpolicyanddisclaimer/

    Beartas ríomhphoist an Oireachtais agus séanadh.
    http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/ga/eolas/beartasriomhphoistanoireachtaisagusseanadh/




    So, light at the end of the tunnel?


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭jiminho


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    As i alluded to earlier in this thread, that's my reading of it too.

    I think we can all agree it will be a waiting game. People will need to test the waters before we can get a definitive answer I guess. The immediate impact will be something to behold. As Cllr Willie Aird said "No big developments are taking place, it is all nearly one off houses". I wonder what the ytd planning application submission statistics are like.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,620 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    mullingar wrote: »
    So, light at the end of the tunnel?

    A false dawn I'm afraid...as before, a little bit of spin and not the whole truth.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,722 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I queried this exact question in relation to the council guidelines and answer was, yes if a certifier is willing to take their chances.

    As per this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89201816&postcount=1020

    so you got that in writing and signed, in case you ever need it for legal reasons... yeah?

    again what you got is only half an answer..... the cert clearly asks for a principle of a building company to sign it.
    the assigner certifer would want to be stone wall mad to say a novice self builder is competent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭4Sticks


    mullingar wrote: »
    So, light at the end of the tunnel?

    Sorry but no -

    When the minister said
    An owner who intends to self-build will, as before, assume legal responsibility for ensuring that building or works concerned are compliant and will be required, as builder, to sign the Undertaking by the Builder and the Certificate of Compliance on Completion.

    He neglected to includes that the Certificate of Compliance on Completion includes the text
    Signature: ——————————————————————— Date: ———————— (to be signed by a Principal or Director of a Building Company only)
    Name: —————————————————————————————————————
    Address: ————————————————————————————————————
    Tel: ———————— Fax: ———————— Email: ————————————————
    Construction Industry Register Ireland registration number (where applicable): —————

    From page 29 here

    So maybe he is not a liar.

    Just bad at being completely truthful.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭martinn123


    4Sticks wrote: »
    Sorry but no -

    When the minister said



    He neglected to includes that the Certificate of Compliance on Completion includes the text



    From page 29 here

    So maybe he is not a liar.

    Just bad at being completely truthful.

    So we need an amendment to the wording on this document, anyone suggest a text?".........an amendment is the solution?

    As it stands, " principal " could mean a sole trader, " Director" is a Ltd Co.

    What competency does a Builder strictly in Self Build need?
    purchase mAterials, employ trades, coordinate activity, and follow the clear and precise instructions of the Assigned certifyer, who will refuse to certify if errors not rectified.

    Exactly what a self builder does at present, well in fairness, maybe additional handholding is required.

    So if the Certifyer is willing to proceed, with a Fee of course, is there a major difference to what happens at present, is the Minister right,


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement