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Dealing with tradesmen

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    #32
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    Great stuff Muff! Hmmmmm. Ladies, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Yep, Project Manager. If I could cope with all that myself I doubt I would have had any problems at all.


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    #33
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    The problem for me is being only able to afford small jobs each time. But I do have a great builder who will organise workers for me. The roof of the extension started leaking after 5 or so years and he got roofers to fix it. I paid him the full amount.

    The next heavy rain, it leaked again, terribly. I phoned him, and he got another couple of guys out who repaired it and he didn't charge me at all this time. I really appreciate him, and have used him a few times. I don't care if he charges a few bob on top, it's really worthwhile.

    But it's like cars - I remember a survey back in the 80s by the AA where they sent, seperately, a man and a woman round to garages to get the same problem fixed. The woman was almost invariably quoted a much higher price. Even nowadays I find mechanics are surprised and taken aback when I discuss car problems with them :D - courtesy of a car maintenence course done in the early 80s!

    The itemised list is useful - but you may need some background knowledge to put it together :(


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    #34
    dixiefly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭dixiefly


    Jellybaby1 wrote: »
    (a) Not sure where I live has anything to do with the problem.

    (b) Yes, I have had recommendations on some occasions by friends and also by previous customers of the tradesman. My friends and I all agree that just because a job is done properly for one customer doesn't mean the next customer will receive the same service, as I can confirm. Thankfully I don't have very big jobs any more but about ten years ago I had the attic floored, the guy's quotation stipulated he could show his previous work as a reference, which we took him up on.....this took him six weeks to organise. We still had a problem after he left, the story would take too long to tell here. Yes, his previous work looked great. Who knows if previous customers are his friends and relatives anyway?

    (c) I do not hire dodgy characters on purpose. They just turn out to be dodgy afterwards. Just like politicians they promise the sun, moon and stars, but don't deliver.

    (d) 'Cop out' by whom?

    a. The reason I asked where you live is I suspect that in the cities it is more likely that you would not know or have personal recommendations for people to do jobs. I live in county meath and in the vast majority of jobs that we have got done from original build to maintenance would be done with people that we would have had personal recommendations for.
    Two incidents where things went a bit pear shaped was once when my wife arranged garden work with a guy we didn't know and there was a damage done and another case where we arranged to do work in the house and we gave part of the job to a guy we had seen an ad for. He let us down at the last minute which was a pain at the time bit no significant loss.
    My point being, try and ensure that you know you have personal recommendation from someone that knows what they are talking about.

    b. When getting recommendations try and identify someone locally that knows what they are talking about and knows tradesmen in the area. Whem I get recommendations, I dont get them generally from friends, I get them from a couple of people that are "in the know". You may have a neighbour or two that you do not know particularly well but could be of good assistance regarding advice.

    d. By cop out I meant "him at home" as these type of things should be tackled by both of you. I used to be out of the country a lot on business but I used to resist making decisions on work on the house until I was sure of the people we would be working with. At the same time I appreciate that this is the "Oulwans & Oulfellas" forum so I do not know your own situation and note in my own family one of my female relatives who, by necessity, has had to take on the role of arranging all of this type of work so the word cop-out was probably inappropriate.


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    #35
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    dixiefly wrote: »
    a. The reason I asked where you live is I suspect that in the cities it is more likely that you would not know or have personal recommendations for people to do jobs. I live in county meath and in the vast majority of jobs that we have got done from original build to maintenance would be done with people that we would have had personal recommendations for.
    Two incidents where things went a bit pear shaped was once when my wife arranged garden work with a guy we didn't know and there was a damage done and another case where we arranged to do work in the house and we gave part of the job to a guy we had seen an ad for. He let us down at the last minute which was a pain at the time bit no significant loss.
    My point being, try and ensure that you know you have personal recommendation from someone that knows what they are talking about.

    b. When getting recommendations try and identify someone locally that knows what they are talking about and knows tradesmen in the area. Whem I get recommendations, I dont get them generally from friends, I get them from a couple of people that are "in the know". You may have a neighbour or two that you do not know particularly well but could be of good assistance regarding advice.

    d. By cop out I meant "him at home" as these type of things should be tackled by both of you. I used to be out of the country a lot on business but I used to resist making decisions on work on the house until I was sure of the people we would be working with. At the same time I appreciate that this is the "Oulwans & Oulfellas" forum so I do not know your own situation and note in my own family one of my female relatives who, by necessity, has had to take on the role of arranging all of this type of work so the word cop-out was probably inappropriate.

    Regarding personal recommendations. The ones we got before didn't work out. Regarding location, well, I doubt location guarantees whether or not you wind up with a cowboy. Regarding himself, well, that's the way its been for 40 years so I'm not expecting any changes soon! But forget about himself, I could be single, widowed, its all the same really when you are female. Also, have you noticed how many tradesmen don't put a full address in their adverts? That speaks volumes.


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    #36
    dixiefly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭dixiefly


    Jellybaby1 wrote: »
    Regarding personal recommendations. The ones we got before didn't work out. Regarding location, well, I doubt location guarantees whether or not you wind up with a cowboy. Regarding himself, well, that's the way its been for 40 years so I'm not expecting any changes soon! But forget about himself, I could be single, widowed, its all the same really when you are female. Also, have you noticed how many tradesmen don't put a full address in their adverts? That speaks volumes.

    of course location doesnt guarantee anything but, imho, getting recommendations regarding possible tradesmen from people in the know and those tradesmen being local to the area reduces the probability of getting a dodgy individual. of course you cannot change where you live but I was enquiring as your experiences would be a lot worse than ours.

    lots of people you can use to get suggestions. Neighbours, neices/ nephews who may know people that can give advice. Try and get that advice from people that know about these things. It is easier in the country as a dodgy tradesman will be known around the place by word of mouth. If you have a neighbour that you only know "to see" and got a similar job done then why not approach them and ask for recommendations, experiences etc.

    Thats my 2 cents worth, not always possible to avoiid these characters but it is certainly possible to reduce the probabilities.


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    #37
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    Thanks dixie. Always willing to reduce the probability of disappointment again in the future and I do of course take your advice on board. I will have to see what adventures lie in store for me over the summer period.


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    #38
    madmaggie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭madmaggie


    I have every sympathy with ladies being ripped off merely because we are female. I am single, have my own house, and make it quite clear that I won't take any crap. I do make a point of saying I own and use a shotgun, and introduce them to the lunatic dog. That apart, I have had only one bad experience with a tradesman, a painter who slobbered paint all over the place. He will never be back, and I bad mouthed him to everyone I know. Anyone else I employed, plumbers, electricians, roofers, were all grand lads, all delighted to have a cup of tea and some home baking. Put your foot down from the word go, it pays in the long run.


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    #39
    cobham
    Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭cobham


    Jellybaby....

    " Also, have you noticed how many tradesmen don't put a full address in their adverts? That speaks volumes."

    Oh so true, and of course only mobile numbers ....


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    #40
    red sean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭red sean


    Is this thread all about demonising tradespeople?
    I've been a tradesman for 40+ years and never ripped off anyone, man or woman. Just like 99.9% of tradespeople.
    I've also never advertised in any way other than a bit of local sponsorship when asked. I always charged a fair price to cover myself and make a good living for me and my family. After all, it took 5 years apprenticeship and 4 years working for contractors to gain experience (all on sh*t money) before I could start my own business. Similar to a doctor or lawyer.
    I'm retired now, but would need to be charging €45 per hour minimum now to cover all overheads and make a profit.
    If you're going to pay peanuts then employ a monkey!

    And as for this:
    I do make a point of saying I own and use a shotgun, and introduce them to the lunatic dog.
    I would be straight to the Garda station to report threatening behaviour.
    Nobody should be treated like a criminal if asked to quote for a job.

    It's very simple, ask for references, names of previous customers in the area and call them and ask to visit.
    Outline what you want done.
    Get a quote. (there may be unseen problems that will cost more but that should be outlined by the contractor as a possibility)
    All contractors, electricians and builders in particular, must be fully qualified, insured, tax compliant etc. to carry out all but the simplest of jobs.
    If there is no trust between the parties from the outset then silly problems are guaranteed to happen.


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    #41
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    No. red sean, we are not trying to demonise tradesmen, and this point was raised earlier in the thread. Obviously there are good, honest tradesmen around, finding them is the issue.

    One rubbish jobs I had done was based on references. The tradesman says -I did this job at this house, so you ring them and they say, yes he did, did a good job - how do you know whether this is genuine or one of his mates. There is a limit you can ask a random stranger about their house when they are courteous enough to answer the phone to you.

    Another one was a very good job done very well, but still the tradesman could not resist pulling a little 'fast one' claiming that something was not included in his quote, and right enough, depending on how the quote was read it was true, but in retrospect not very clear. Easy to say that after the event, but it would have been more honest to phrase the quote slightly differently so there was no ambiguity. He also used an out of date piece of equipment, that failed almost immediately. Stupid things that let him down just because he could not resist the temptation to cut a corner here and there. His work was otherwise excellent. He has since gone bust I believe.

    Keep doing (as you evidently did) a good job and you will make a good living and be respected. Take advantage of people (and this is a forum for older people, who seem to attract chancers) and you will be held up as one of the rogue tradesmen. Its the same in all walks of life, the few bad teachers/ doctors/ supppliers attract much more discussion than the good ones, and taint them all.

    It is an area that requires more regulation, but of course this adds paperwork and takes time and is a disadvantage to people who are willing to do the job honestly without regulation.


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    #42
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    Red Sean, no, this is not about demonising tradespeople at all. As I have explained here twice before, all I did was to state my own experiences, as others have also done. You are obviously not one of the chaps who worked here in my house. I wish you were, especially because of the price of €45 you mentioned which was such a surprise to me as some years back our heating failed a couple of days before Christmas. I called out a plumber and he was telling me about his young apprentice who had just emigrated, and he advised the lad to charge his customers properly "after all, I won't get out of bed for less than €90 an hour."


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    #43
    red sean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭red sean


    €90 per hour is a rip off. I had to retire due to ill health nearly 2 years ago and people were back to charging realistic prices at that stage. During the so called boom years the prices charged were mad, but people got away with it. However, the ones who overcharged also seemed to overspend/overborrow and are now out of business. What goes around etc. etc...........


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