[Article] Dublin Outer Bypass could be tolled

Chris_533976 · 20-08-2007 4:57pm #1

The Minister for Transport says he is in favour of the planned Drogheda-Naas orbital route around Dublin and suggests that it could be a toll road if it goes ahead.

The proposed motorway would begin south of Drogheda towards Navan, pass south around Trim before ending near Naas in Co Kildare.

The road will not continue on to connect with the N11 Dublin to Wexford road because of the Wicklow mountains.
Advertisement

Minister Noel Dempsey told RTÉ News he had just read the report on the orbital route drawn up by the National Roads Authority, which was submitted to his Department.

He said the road is an extremely important route and would bring about major relief to other roads such as the M50 and bring major economic and environmental benefits.

The estimated cost of the orbital route is around €2bn. However, the project is not included in the National Development Plan so money would have to be found separately for the road.

Asked about the likelihood of it being tolled, Mr Dempsey said he believed the road would attract considerable interest from investors.

The NRA's report must now be brought before the Cabinet for approval. Environmental Impact Statements will also have to be drawn up along the proposed route.

Construction work would not be expected to begin for at least five years.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0820/orbital.html

Poxyshamrock · 20-08-2007 5:19pm

If the road was tolled by the government and the money used to fund the roads I'd have no problem with that but I really doubt it will end up like that.

paulm17781 · 20-08-2007 6:26pm

Good Lord! A FF politician in favour of a major building contract? What ever next? :rolleyes:

lostexpectation · 20-08-2007 8:38pm

where will it cross the m3 is there a pic?

Zebra3 · 20-08-2007 8:46pm

And when that road is full in 2020 ,where will the outer outer ring road be built?

:rolleyes:

Skyhater · 20-08-2007 8:59pm

Poxyshamrock wrote:

If the road was tolled by the government and the money used to fund the roads I'd have no problem with that but I really doubt it will end up like that.

Yes!!! Toll it until it's paid for, then remove the toll!!!!
Have a big electronic sign showing how much remains to be paid!!

Clear, transparent and Fair system!!!!
This should be done with all new motorway and even used to fund parallel public transport projects (ie M3 Toll to help fund the Navan Rail Link)

DerekP11 · 20-08-2007 10:52pm

Zebra3 wrote:

And when that road is full in 2020 ,where will the outer outer ring road be built?

:rolleyes:

Galway. Might keep the westies happy, all us Dubs lashing through Oranmore on the way to Bray!

Zoney · 20-08-2007 11:22pm

Zebra3 wrote:

And when that road is full in 2020 ,where will the outer outer ring road be built?

:rolleyes:

N17 and N18!

westtip · 21-08-2007 12:26am

there is no need for this road as full motorway standard - 2+1, seamless N standard road or dual carriageway would be quite adequate - the only reason they suggest motorway is because they can fool us into a PPP being good for us and get the private sector to rip us off for the next 30 years - A seamless N51/N52 to Tullamore and then an improved N80 to Portlaoise would be adequete as a mix of HQDC 2+1 and keeping out of any towns would be perfectly OK - Another motorway is purely a way of indulging ourselves we need it, we don't - It is an indulgence we simply don't need - An improved outer orbital road on existing routes yes, bypasses around towns such as Navan of course, but full grade motorway who are we kidding???

steve-o · 21-08-2007 10:58am

Shouldn't the decision to toll a road (and how much to toll) be completely be separate from how it's built or who builds it? The suggestion that "it'll be tolled if it's a PPP build" makes no sense to me. I think tolling should be used as a tool to regulate the traffic flow - discourage long-distance commuters and discourage travel at peak times of the day. Just like the port tunnel, but a bit less radical. If you build a road that makes it feasible to commute from Drogheda to Naas, then there has to be something in place to discourage that behaviour or it will become another M50.

Red Alert · 21-08-2007 11:36am

Actually I do like that electronic sign idea, and it's not exactly as crazy as it sounds.

Also something that struck me - my dad often uses the westlink to go to the airport and says that sometimes he'll only have €2 and not €1.90 for the automatic lane. I think they should be made let a free car thru when the change total reaches 1.90 or else save your reg number if they have a number plate reader.

Navan Junction · 21-08-2007 12:15pm

lostexpectation wrote:

where will it cross the m3 is there a pic?

Sth of Navan - judging by the pic somewhere close to Tara....:eek:

Here we go again

Stark · 21-08-2007 12:43pm

I'm sure someone somewhere chose the route purely for hilarity purposes

LostinBlanch · 21-08-2007 2:51pm

Navan Junction wrote:

Sth of Navan - judging by the pic somewhere close to Tara....:eek:

Some people will say that this was the plan all along. Now a more cynical person might ask who owns lands adjacent to any proposed interchange? Lands that "could" be rezoned by the county council and increase hugely in value. Heaven forbid that anyone who has interests in such lands should be found to be involved in such rezoning. :rolleyes:

Zebra3 · 21-08-2007 4:18pm

LostinBlanch wrote:

Some people will say that this was the plan all along. Now a more cynical person might ask who owns lands adjacent to any proposed interchange? Lands that "could" be rezoned by the county council and increase hugely in value. Heaven forbid that anyone who has interests in such lands should be found to be involved in such rezoning. :rolleyes:

Or a "supporter of the democratic system" through regular brib-,I mean regular financial donations to certain politicians.

dubhthach · 21-08-2007 4:25pm

Navan Junction wrote:

Sth of Navan - judging by the pic somewhere close to Tara....:eek:

Here we go again

Yup it's already got a name, "The Blundelstown Interchange" ...

Irish and Proud · 21-08-2007 10:07pm

dubhthach wrote:

Yup it's already got a name, "The Blundelstown Interchange" ...

...or do you mean BLUNDERSTOWN?

The M3 should have followed the western route (Dunshaughlin to Navan Section) which would have been far shorter and less troublesome!

Regards

Stark · 21-08-2007 10:17pm

Navan Junction wrote:

judging by the pic somewhere close to Tara....:eek:

Where did you find the pic?

DerekP11 · 21-08-2007 11:47pm

LostinBlanch wrote:

Some people will say that this was the plan all along. Now a more cynical person might ask who owns lands adjacent to any proposed interchange? Lands that "could" be rezoned by the county council and increase hugely in value. Heaven forbid that anyone who has interests in such lands should be found to be involved in such rezoning. :rolleyes:

FF = CRH.

Never forget it.

Davidth88 · 22-08-2007 7:56am

FF = CRH.

Or as I put it to the local FF cadidate when she called.

If you lie down with dogs , you will get fleas.

Back on track.

Question :- Why do I pay road tax ??

To toll a ' relief ' road is just plain stupid.

Oh........to westip saying

there is no need for this road as full motorway standard - 2+1, seamless N standard road or dual carriageway would be quite adequate

Yes I am sure when the myopic twits who designed the M50 that I am sure they thought , 2 lanes will be enough , ohhh we won't bother with real junctions , ohhhh lets put traffic lights on roundabouts.

I remember driving down the M50 back when it first opened, I was on holiday here and asking my wife ... why are there only two lanes , there was space for 3 but they kept that stupid green space between carrageways ( don't get me started on lack of barriers )

Navan Junction · 22-08-2007 8:02am

Stark wrote:

Where did you find the pic?

Think it was in one of the free sheets yesterday, and might have been on the news night before.

The tolling plan for this road will be interesting - Navan will have a toll to the north to get to Kells, a toll to the Sth to get to Dublin.

Now it is possible that a toll to the west and East will be added.

Meath already had the dubious title of the most tolled county in Ireland, including the only road to be tolled twice in the same county. Now we could end with the first town to have tolls to the north, sth, east and west

LostinBlanch · 22-08-2007 10:21am

Irish and Proud wrote:

...or do you mean BLUNDERSTOWN?

I don't think there was any blunder involved here. This has been planned for a long, long time IMO.

Irish and Proud wrote:

The M3 should have followed the western route (Dunshaughlin to Navan Section) which would have been far shorter and less troublesome!

Of course it should, but then again you're assuming that whoever was responsible for choosing the route was interested in providing good value for money, and that other factors were not at play. I'd like to think that the choice of route etc is above board, but remain to be convinced. I'd be concerned that by the time we find out it'll be too late.

westtip · 22-08-2007 12:13pm

Davidth88 wrote:

Or as I put it to the local FF cadidate when she called.

Yes I am sure when the myopic twits who designed the M50 that I am sure they thought , 2 lanes will be enough , ohhh we won't bother with real junctions , ohhhh lets put traffic lights on roundabouts.

I remember driving down the M50 back when it first opened, I was on holiday here and asking my wife ... why are there only two lanes , there was space for 3 but they kept that stupid green space between carrageways ( don't get me started on lack of barriers )

david I can se your point - the M50 was a disastrous design from day one - probably the biggest mistake wasn't the 3 lane issue but not having free flow junctions - although I agree there was no need for a park down the middle of the motorway - an orbital light railway might have worked (see the light railway that runs down the middle of the freeway from Chicago O'Hare airpoprt into downtown Chicago), had we really been thinking we could have had a new railway system running down the middle of all our shiny new motorways, now there is a thought and created real communication and transport corridors - my point about no need for motorway is I don't really believe - although I have no empirical evidence yet to support it, that there will be the volume of traffic throughout the day to justify a fully fledged tolled motorway along this route - HQDC near the main towns on route and 2+1 elsewhere probably would work - its just a view. There is no doubt this new road will lead to more long distance commuting and suburban sprawl and further adoption of the LA urban planning model, in some ways that is inevitable. Regarding the routing of this motoway - I think it is a pity it is being planned to be so near Dublin - The wider arc route (N51/52/80) linking Drogheda, Navan, Mullingar, Portlaise would be a more national strategic route linking all parts of the country together enabling virtually everyone to avoid the M50 unless they were Dublin bound. But who am I a humble citizen to know better than the great intelect of the Minister of Transport and the NRA

Chris_533976 · 22-08-2007 12:27pm

Navan Junction wrote:

Meath already had the dubious title of the most tolled county in Ireland, including the only road to be tolled twice in the same county. Now we could end with the first town to have tolls to the north, sth, east and west

Thats just going to cause war.

Davidth88 · 22-08-2007 12:29pm

As they said in the film...

'Build it and they will come'

All the evidence is that any road space you build will be filled up. Anyway build at least a dual-carrageway because it's safer for sure.

I like the idea of the orbital railway , although can you imagine getting to/from the stations , I bet they would forget/not bother to build pedestrian bridges

The motorway that leads to the airport in Amsterdam also has a railway running down the middle.

bk · 22-08-2007 1:21pm

Davidth88 wrote:

I remember driving down the M50 back when it first opened, I was on holiday here and asking my wife ... why are there only two lanes , there was space for 3 but they kept that stupid green space between carrageways ( don't get me started on lack of barriers )

Well the large green space in the middle was left there as they had always planned on upgrading the M50 to three lanes at a future date and therefore at least they left the space for it.

What they didn't forsee was that the M50 would fill up so quickly and that they would have to add the third lane so soon.

As for the new outer orbital, I think this goes along with the plan to move Dublin Port out of Dublin, to up by Balbriggan, complete the eastern bypass and open it up to normal traffic and therefore be able to ban cars from Dublin city.

The idea being to link the outer orbital to the new port in Balbriggan, so that trucks heading for Cork etc. can avoid Dublin and the M50 (also any other traffic not heading to Dublin). It is actually not at all a bad idea and is similar to what is done in other modern European cities the same size as Dublin.

D'Peoples Voice · 22-08-2007 1:48pm

Navan Junction wrote:

Meath already had the dubious title of the most tolled county in Ireland, including the only road to be tolled twice in the same county. Now we could end with the first town to have tolls to the north, sth, east and west

Perhaps Navan Urban Council should start a congestion charging scheme and perhaps increase the price of on street parking followed by an introduction of pedestrianised streets - now that would be funny!:D

Davidth88 · 22-08-2007 2:15pm

Well the large green space in the middle was left there as they had always planned on upgrading the M50 to three lanes at a future date and therefore at least they left the space for it.

Really ? I was under the impression this was ' in lieu ' of barriers. I heard some twit from the NRA defending why 20 mt of central reservation was used instead of barriers... never heard so much twaddle in my life .... if that guy had seen how long it takes to stop a 40 ton lorry at 80kph ......... ( having seen what damage a 40tonner can do at this speed first hand when one ended up embedded in my neighbours front room having destroyed a bus stop/lamp post/telegraph pole/ hedge and travelled about 200 mts )

Anyway are they not having to change all the bridges on the newly widened M50 ?

lostexpectation · 23-08-2007 4:09pm

LostinBlanch wrote:

Some people will say that this was the plan all along. Now a more cynical person might ask who owns lands adjacent to any proposed interchange? Lands that "could" be rezoned by the county council and increase hugely in value. Heaven forbid that anyone who has interests in such lands should be found to be involved in such rezoning. :rolleyes:

they said they didn't bring the m3 to the west of tara because of peoples homes...

spacetweek · 23-08-2007 6:30pm

Davidth88 wrote:

I remember driving down the M50 back when it first opened, I was on holiday here and asking my wife ... why are there only two lanes , there was space for 3 but they kept that stupid green space between carrageways

Why would they do that, when the 2 extra lanes weren't needed until nearly 10 years later? The more road space you provide, the faster it fills. Correct practice is to provide what's needed for the short term, not the long term. Later, as the road fills, you widen.

lostexpectation · 23-08-2007 8:56pm

I can't find a proper map for this on the NRA site or anywhere, I've drawn where i think it will go, http://dublinstreams.blogspot.com/2007/08/outer-orbital-motorway-where-it.html

click view larger map and post a link to your version...

hmm googlemaps have new embed feature like youtube but it doesn't work on the boards, damnit

[html]<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="no" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108692096314893578946.00043862d905b7ac3adcc&ll=53.427537,-6.778564&spn=0.36654,0.561839&om=0&output=embed&s=AARTsJoKjkZ_P17bpXfxRQ3ljVhNnERcwg"></iframe><br/><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108692096314893578946.00043862d905b7ac3adcc&ll=53.427537,-6.778564&spn=0.36654,0.561839&om=0&source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left;font-size:small">View Larger Map</a>[/html]

[Article] Dublin Outer Bypass could be tolled

Comments