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Improvement to rail routes (EDIT: using existing network)

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    #122
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ans there are those who always use the word Canard.... cheers Ducky....;)


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    #123
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    A passing loop at Oranmore station that's under construction would make a lot of sense, there's ample room for it seeing as the section used to be dual track anyway, even the bridges are set up to accommodate dual track. I don't quite understand why the M6 motorway was only built to allow a single track run under it when the Galway county council have already been talking about dual tracking as far as Athenry for years.....


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    #124
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    dowlingm wrote: »
    One of the biggest problems IE has is grade crossings. They have to be signalled or manned, automating manned crossings is very expensive, even when they are you have issues of people nicking the gates or driving into the gates etc. The massive advantage the motorway has (apart from not having to operate a single traffic lane with lights at either end) is that traffic doesn't have to slow and blow its horn every time it encounters a farmer crossing, the gates of which have hopefully not been left open.

    This is why I think having the NRA assume responsibility for tracks would be a good thing - they could be obliged to spend part of their budget on eliminating GCs and to create sacrificial structures to minimise bridge strikes. At present bridge works vary between NRA and IE (see Oola for instance) depending on who "owns" the bridge.

    Importantly, NRA applications for road expansions could then be reasonably be expected to contain an alternatives analysis since they can't claim that they don't know how much additional railtrack would cost to build sufficient to avoid the road cost.

    That said, some of the comments above about "well the railway can handle the capacity of a motorway" are nonsense. There are railways which can handle the capacity of a motorway in other countries but you have to spent a good chunk of the cost of a motorway to do it with double track or better, double deck, 12 car lengths etc. and you still need a network of feeder services to get people to their door as directly as possible whereas cars simply get on the offramp and proceed. Also, it helps if the urban centres at the terminus of said line is not a town (no matter what some English king wrote in a charter, that is what Limerick and Galway are in a global context). The time penalty for a change to a feeder means your line doesn't have to be as fast as a motorway, it has to be faster so that means few to none grade crossings and thus a lot of expensive works and paying a lot of farmers to give up their crossing rights.


    So, you would be against double tracking to improve line speeds? Free car parking at stations would be useful as well. I don't know about you, but I find it straight forward enough to drive to a station and park at it.


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    #125
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    yer man! wrote: »
    A passing loop at Oranmore station that's under construction would make a lot of sense, there's ample room for it seeing as the section used to be dual track anyway, even the bridges are set up to accommodate dual track. I don't quite understand why the M6 motorway was only built to allow a single track run under it when the Galway county council have already been talking about dual tracking as far as Athenry for years.....

    Given the profit taking around road building, should you be surprised? It was only when DWCommuter, late of this parish, copped on that a crucial bit of tunnel was missing under the M3 as being built at the time, that the way would have been blocked to extend the M3 Parkway line to Navan.


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    #126
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    dowlingm wrote: »
    One of the biggest problems IE has is grade crossings. They have to be signalled or manned, automating manned crossings is very expensive, even when they are you have issues of people nicking the gates or driving into the gates etc. The massive advantage the motorway has (apart from not having to operate a single traffic lane with lights at either end) is that traffic doesn't have to slow and blow its horn every time it encounters a farmer crossing, the gates of which have hopefully not been left open.

    This is why I think having the NRA assume responsibility for tracks would be a good thing - they could be obliged to spend part of their budget on eliminating GCs and to create sacrificial structures to minimise bridge strikes. At present bridge works vary between NRA and IE (see Oola for instance) depending on who "owns" the bridge.

    Importantly, NRA applications for road expansions could then be reasonably be expected to contain an alternatives analysis since they can't claim that they don't know how much additional railtrack would cost to build sufficient to avoid the road cost.

    That said, some of the comments above about "well the railway can handle the capacity of a motorway" are nonsense. There are railways which can handle the capacity of a motorway in other countries but you have to spent a good chunk of the cost of a motorway to do it with double track or better, double deck, 12 car lengths etc. and you still need a network of feeder services to get people to their door as directly as possible whereas cars simply get on the offramp and proceed. Also, it helps if the urban centres at the terminus of said line is not a town (no matter what some English king wrote in a charter, that is what Limerick and Galway are in a global context). The time penalty for a change to a feeder means your line doesn't have to be as fast as a motorway, it has to be faster so that means few to none grade crossings and thus a lot of expensive works and paying a lot of farmers to give up their crossing rights.
    Compare a four-lane motorway to a single-track railway with passing loops. Irish motorways aren't going to get much wider than four lanes, except maybe in the Dublin and Cork areas; nor are autobahn speeds going to be allowed.

    The NRA isn't going to want to be saddled with track maintenance and ownership. Unless there are several diverse railfreight operators who are paying taxes and/or direct fees, it wouldn't be a satisfactory source of revenue for them. The R in NRA doesn't stand for "railways" after all.

    Besides, neither GCOR nor NORAC apply in Ireland, so the rules concerning level crossings are different. IE actually has this interesting booklet about accommodation crossings and the rules concerning them.


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    #127
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    Here's a little insight from the other side of the Pond why supporting or opposing rail projects is factor of whether you are a Librul or a Tea Partier. And guess what, the infamous Wendell Cocks gets a look in as well. Even the debating tactics look familiar.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2011/03/off_the_rails.single.html


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    #128
    Cilar
    Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Cilar


    Have better interconnections between Dublin Bus and commuter rail. There could be a significant increase of the use of the Dunboyne train station from people in clonee and littlepace areas if timetable for the 70 and 270 bus were aligned with train services at the station! Also the buses do not currently stop at the bus stop in front of the station!


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    #129
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    CIE wrote: »
    The NRA isn't going to want to be saddled with track maintenance and ownership. Unless there are several diverse railfreight operators who are paying taxes and/or direct fees, it wouldn't be a satisfactory source of revenue for them. The R in NRA doesn't stand for "railways" after all.
    They are a state agency. Who gives a f*** what they want? The minister changes the governing legislation and tells them get on with it, just like when the Light Rail Office was given to RPA.


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    #130
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    dowlingm wrote: »
    They are a state agency. Who gives a f*** what they want? The minister changes the governing legislation and tells them get on with it, just like when the Light Rail Office was given to RPA
    So state control is that draconian in Ireland, is what you are saying? (What's the Irish word for "Tovarishch"?)

    Just because duties are shifted from one agency to another does not mean that things will get better. Proposing such as solutions is essentially proposing nothing at all or the degradation of the status quo.

    Not to mention that the RPA was created specifically for taking over the light rail anyhow.


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    #131
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    CIE - a state agency receiving a change in its mandate from the Oireachtas is hardly Stalinism. The NRA is merely a specialist agency which assumed certain roles previously done directly by the Dept of Transport. In such a situation the Oireachtas would be merely adding responsibilites to its mandate, nothing more.


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