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Is it Taboo to be Childless?

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Comments

  • #32
    Daisy M
    Registered Users Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Daisy M


    dont want kids wrote: »
    I deliberately posted anon to this thread as I knew some people would not like or respect my views, I posted before in the Parenting forum under my own username and was attacked by a poster simply because my views differed to hers and as a non parent was subjected to the 'you wouldnt have a clue because you are not a parent' patronising rubbish.



    I didnt imply that there wasnt more to parenting. Of course there must be. However, for me, these are the things that stand out that I dont like. To suggest that I dont know this is another example of patronising someone who isnt a parent over their views on parenting. I dont have any desire to experience all the cuddly happy moments - I am happy. I do not need a child to 'fulfill' me. I am a happy adult female who is secure in the knowledge that she does not want or need children.



    I am not criticising them. If they wish to behave the way they do that is their business, but for ME I do not wish to become someone who is always tired, moans about never getting a lie in etc....
    Im not remotely insecure about not wanting children. I dont like children. I dont like what parenting does to (some) people. End of. But the thread is about reasons not to want children - so I gave reasons. Just because you dont like the reasons doesnt mean that I am insecure.



    Pretty much every parent I know on a basis better than waving hello in the carpark moans about it.


    The thing is though you are the only person on this thread who has tried to ram your view point down other peoples necks. Other people were happy enough to say yes I want kids or no I didnt without the dramatic reasoning. I never said you were insecure, I never said I didnt like your reasons. And actually the thread is not about reasons not to want children its called "is it taboo to be childless?" which is totally different.

    You have made a very definite decision on not having children, you should be comfortable with that choice and be able to say "no I dont want children" without feeling the need to criticise every baby and parent you know. Its very hard to believe every parent you know moans about been a parent. I believe that your only honing in on your friends negative comments on parenting to strenghten your resolve, and you (probably without realising) dont hear the positive comments they make. You have made your decision and there is no doubt it is the right one for you as you feelings are so strong, it would be unfair on any child to have a mother as opposed to children as you are. Accept that you have made your decision and stop justifying it.


  • #33
    Twinkleboots
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Twinkleboots


    dont want them wrote: »
    Twinkleboots wrote: »
    You do realise that you yourself were a baby and child once and that you got sick an pooped and had " saliva hands" and I'm glad for you that your parents didn't have the same attitude you have!!

    I have no issues with people who don't want kids that's their decision and I completely respect that. But please don't insult people who have children. Before you hold a baby away from you next time in case in makes you uncomfortable maybe think to yourself that you too were a little harmless baby once.

    Are you actually serious with this point?

    Tugging the emotional heartstrings about the poor little baby is not a constructive way to conduct a discussion. I was quite honest in that human bodily fluids make me queasy. Thats not insulting 'the little harmless baby' or people who have children. Its simply stating a fact about my own reaction to human bodily fluids.

    It is precisely because of people like you that I end up holding babies away from me - you seem to think we should all just accept things we find disgusting, but guess what? I CHOOSE not to have children BECAUSE these things gross me out. If I wanted to hold your child Id tell you. But people hand them to you without asking and you are stuck there. It absolutely does my head in.

    I once had to pull over and throw up after I left a friends who forced her son to kiss me goodbye, I did not want to offend her by backing off and refusing the child to do it, but his nose and lips were covered in snot and saliva. To me, it was so disgusting that it caused me to throw up. Im sorry if you dont like hearing this, but the truth is, not everyone loves little babies covered in bodily fluids.

    Sorry about that I was just saying that you too were a baby once an I'm sure your had you're fair share of runny noses over the years yourself. All I'm saying really is that these are normal things and babies can't really help it. And by the way I would never force someone to hold my child if they did not wish to. You find children and babies disgusting that's fair enough that's your opinion and your entitled to it.


  • #34
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    mrsWhippy wrote: »
    Has anyone come up with a good response to these prying questions from busybodies?

    Even when you *do* get pregnant, they are still not happy, and feel they have the right to tell you what to eat, drink, how to exercise ... such 'helpful' advise ... god it drives me insane :(

    I think
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59057353&postcount=55
    should work just fine :D


  • #35
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Twinkleboots wrote: »
    Sorry about that I was just saying that you too were a baby once an I'm sure your had you're fair share of runny noses over the years yourself. All I'm saying really is that these are normal things and babies can't really help it. And by the way I would never force someone to hold my child if they did not wish to. You find children and babies disgusting that's fair enough that's your opinion and your entitled to it.

    Its interesting how the point keeps getting missed!

    I had to nurse a parent through illness for a few years before death, there were bodily fluids (and solids), snotty noses etc.. I still found it gross, and I was dealing with an adult. In fact, some of the things with an adult are much worse. But it was my parent, I got on with it.

    It is not children and babies I find disgusting, other peoples bodily fluids gross me out. I could never be a nurse or a doctor.

    The point about children is, I can choose not to have them, and not to have to deal with the things I find gross. Not that I think children and babies are disgusting, but I personally do not like dealing with other peoples bodily excretions. Thats all, its not meant as offensive to children (or parents), its actually about me, not about other peoples children.

    I just get the impression that you are not allowed be honest about feeling this way about children without parents jumping down your throat and becoming offended - as you did, making out that Im nasty about the poor little babies. Its nothing to do with the poor little babies, its about my own squeamishness.


  • #36
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Daisy M wrote: »
    The thing is though you are the only person on this thread who has tried to ram your view point down other peoples necks. Other people were happy enough to say yes I want kids or no I didnt without the dramatic reasoning. I never said you were insecure, I never said I didnt like your reasons. And actually the thread is not about reasons not to want children its called "is it taboo to be childless?" which is totally different.

    I dont understand what you mean by ram my viewpoint down other peoples necks? All I have done is post an opinion, same as yourself.

    Why do you think my reasoning is dramatic? Just because you dont like my opinion doesnt give it extra drama.

    You did say I was insecure:
    Daisy M wrote: »
    You should be strong enough to stand by your decision without undermining other people and their children the fact that you arent comes across as extremely insecure.

    Other people wrote long posts that went beyond the actual thread title also - am I somehow not allowed this because you dont like my opinion?
    Daisy M wrote: »
    You have made a very definite decision on not having children, you should be comfortable with that choice and be able to say "no I dont want children" without feeling the need to criticise every baby and parent you know.

    Im totally comfortable with it. Its you who seems uncomfortable with it. I didnt criticise anyone, I explained my viewpoint. Can you show me where I criticised anyone? Do you know what criticise means? I didnt condemn anyone their behaviour, although I did make observations of what I would not like to become. Theres a difference.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    Its very hard to believe every parent you know moans about been a parent. I believe that your only honing in on your friends negative comments on parenting to strenghten your resolve, and you (probably without realising) dont hear the positive comments they make.

    They do make positive comments. Of course they do. But the comments they make do not, for me, make up for the negatives. I dont know why you have difficulty believing that.

    I dont need my resolve strengthened, since childhood Ive felt awkward around babies, no interest, not knowing how to act, people expecting me to be all goo goo and gaa gaa, and me just standing there hoping I wont be handed the baby.

    If you have a uterus, you are expected to want to look at, admire, hold, ask about a baby. How many times have you been in a workplace where someone has brought in their new baby to be admired? How many times does that woman go to the men in the office to show the baby? She doesnt, she only goes to the women. I was the only woman in an all male office for years, so babies used to get brought in specially for me to look at. People dont get that some women just have no interest. Youre not getting it on this thread despite it being explicitly spelled out. Instead you want to assign negative traits to me like insecurity, and a need for self justification.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    You have made your decision and there is no doubt it is the right one for you as you feelings are so strong, it would be unfair on any child to have a mother as opposed to children as you are. Accept that you have made your decision and stop justifying it.

    I do accept it. It seems that you want to believe that I dont though. Im not sure why that is except the usual attitude of disbelief I encounter from people when you tell them you dont want children?


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  • #37
    Mink
    Registered Users Posts: 2,260 ✭✭✭Mink


    For years the OH & I were certain we didn't want kids. When we would mention it to people they always said that we'd regret it when we were much older. To be honest this didn't affect me, I didn't pay any attention as life can be very full without kids. Anyway I don't know what changed but some years after that we decided to go for it (after 1-2yrs wait to make sure it wasn't a whim).

    I'm having an easy pregnancy etc, but I may only have this one. I can't really see myself going again. I'm sure I'll get all the "when are you having another" comments. I'm trying to really enjoy the pregnancy & then lap up every moment with the baby just in case it is the only baby I have!

    I know many couples & singletons that aren't having or never had kids. It never occurred to me to say anything about it or ask about it. I don't get how people can be so insensitive & nosey and actually make comments about things like that.


  • #38
    Sappa
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Sappa


    I have an uncle,for whatever reasons himself and his wife never had kids.
    They treat there neices and nephews like there own,very generous with time and birthdays etc.
    There life has been one of travel to exotic places before they were popular,the latest gadgets etc.They are i there 70`s live in a beautiful place and I have always admired this lifestyle
    Whether we have kids both in agreement on this is were leaving it to faith,if it happens then it happens but if not I could care less as I reckon your either cut out for it or your not.
    People ask us sometimes not often and I reply no I have not interest,they might mutter under there breath but nothing has been said directly to us in a negative way for our choice.
    I think you can lead a full happy life with or without kids but it is not the end of the world if you never have one.


  • #39
    BoomSha
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭BoomSha


    As a teen who currently doesn't want children, I get a lot of shocked responses when I tell people I'm not interested in kids. I don't hate children, but I feel they're fine in small doses. Children require a lot of effort and time, and I wouldn't want to give that right now. I feel that the right to choice is a key thing, however. People should be allowed to choose whether they want kids or not without hate.


  • #40
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    Why on earth would it be taboo? It's no one else's business what you do.

    As for the 'any kids yet', its a natural question to ask, if you don't know a couple. If you can't have kids and are sensitive about it, its just something you'll have to get used to. It's just like asking a school kid, what class they're in and whether they like their teacher. It's a conversation starter if you don't know a couple.

    I remember a couple I met...a friend of an old boss....they were married 20 years...I asked if they had any kids. Well you'd swear I asked have they murdered anyone. The husband answered no, but they had 2 gorgeous dogs and so the conversation moved on. I later found out later they were having problems conceiving (2 years later they had twins through ivf though). But I thought, how the hell was I supposed to know.

    To ask why, is crossing a line though. I know 2 couples, no kids and I've never asked why. Either they don't want them, or can't have them, but that's their business.


  • #41
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    Ayla wrote: »
    Now that I have 2 kids, people still aren't happy - now I *should* be having 3 (esp since the two I have are both girls - like I need a boy to "even it out"?)

    Now this does annoy me. I have 2 boys, the youngest only 6 months, and I'm already getting the 'you should go again for the girl', as if I should be disappointed with 2 boys?


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  • #42
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭mrsWhippy


    In the right context, I don't think there is necessarily a problem with the question 'Do you have children?' - its a factual question along the same lines as 'where do you live' and 'Are you married'. I'm completely fine with that esp when you are getting to know a new couple. If the answer is 'no' the you leave it at that!

    What I can't stand is the patronising, nosy sh1t like 'oh when will we hear the pitter patter...' and 'Anythin stirrin down there' .. though that type of rubbish is usually spouted by our nearest and dearest, rather than strangers which makes it worse!


  • #43
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    dont want them wrote: »
    I once had to pull over and throw up after I left a friends who forced her son to kiss me goodbye, I did not want to offend her by backing off and refusing the child to do it, but his nose and lips were covered in snot and saliva. To me, it was so disgusting that it caused me to throw up. Im sorry if you dont like hearing this, but the truth is, not everyone loves little babies covered in bodily fluids.
    Just seems like a bit of a first world problem to me. Having been round our own kids, relatives and friends, I've never had a situation that forced unwanted bodily fluids onto me. Couldn't you just have kissed the top of his hair, or the side of his head or whatever?


  • #44
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    dont want them wrote: »
    It is not children and babies I find disgusting

    You see this ^^^...
    dont want them wrote: »
    Not that I think children and babies are disgusting,....Thats all, its not meant as offensive to children (or parents)

    this ^^^
    dont want them wrote: »
    I just get the impression that you are not allowed be honest about feeling this way about children without parents jumping down your throat and becoming offended - as you did, making out that Im nasty about the poor little babies. Its nothing to do with the poor little babies, its about my own squeamishness.

    and this ^^^ Are very difficult to take seriously when you've already posted this
    dont want them wrote: »
    I personally find the baby/toddler stage quite gross, I dont like the saliva covered hands, the snotty noses, the sicking up of partially digested milk, dirty nappies, and when they get a bit older I dont like the random screaming with excitement, the what seems like constant crying and whining for something.

    I also hate when people hand me their baby. I dont like them, I try to hold them away so their saliva hands cant touch me, it makes me uncomfortable.

    You don't like children, fair enough, but perhaps you might think about thundering into a thread in a parenting forum with a tactless impassioned speech about how gross you find them. I don't want children, because I don't like them is not such a strange concept for anyone to grasp. No one enjoys the puke or the poop, there's nothing unnatural about that. I'm not surprised you get the reactions you say you get if you express your opinions like this. I don't think I'd go into a cat forum and vehemently explain why I don't like cats and expect to get away with it :D

    For what its worth, I work with two men and one woman and have brought both my kids into show them off. No one in the office has kids except for me, nor do they like them.. But I've had to sit and admire photos of their dogs, cats, new cars, shoes, handbags, shirts, suits etc, so they can show me the same courtesy and at least feign interest in what I have to show off. It's called common courtesy. And no one would be offended if you didn't want to hold a baby, the first baby I held was my son! In fact I'm sure they'd much rather you didn't if you were going to vomit all over them :D


  • #45
    ChubbyRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭ChubbyRunner


    I was married for 8 years before we had our first child. It was a decision we made because we were stone broke, working our way in our careers etc. Everyone knew that, everyone knew I really wanted kids but still asked. When we started trying for our second and had fertility problems which we were open about people still asked. I used to feel bad like it was my fault!! I don't think it ever goes away. IVF broke up my marriage and I nearly died while in labor but people STILL ask when I am going to try for a girl. Its so annoying. :mad:


  • #46
    Ben Moore
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭Ben Moore


    At 18 my cousin became pregnant and in the child's first few years of life I spent quite a lot of time being the Uncle/Cousin, minding, changing nappies, etc.
    I thought that some day I would like to have children of my own.
    I few years later I was in a relationship that looked like it was headed that way until we realised that her issues and my issues were not compatible and it ended amicably.
    By that stage my sister and more cousins and friends were having children and so my minding skills were once again called upon.
    Now I am a 40 something who doesn't have children and was never married.
    I am partly disappointed that I do not have them but at the same time I feel that if I had ignored the issues of my relationship then we may have brought up children in an non-condusive atmosphere.

    I'll have to settle for being the cool Uncle.


  • #47
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Ben Moore wrote: »
    I am partly disappointed that I do not have them but at the same time I feel that if I had ignored the issues of my relationship then we may have brought up children in an non-condusive atmosphere.

    I'll have to settle for being the cool Uncle.

    Lots of men have their first child at your age or older. That door isn't one that is necessarily closed to you if you don't want it to be.


  • #48
    Ben Moore
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭Ben Moore


    Yes, you are right, I shouldn't be so defeatist, so I will adjust my comment...

    For the moment, I will enjoy being the cool Uncle :-)


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