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VRT from UK and rules once car is in Ireland

  • 30-12-2015 2:56am
    #1
    forrestgolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭


    I have been a resident in the UK for the past 6 months, and am going to buy a car in January. Therefore in July 2016 I will have been a resident of the UK for 12 months and have owned the car for 6.

    In the summer I am thinking of bringing the car back to Ireland for my mother, as she has been thinking of upgrading.

    My understanding of the situation is that I cannot sell the car for 12 months once it's back in Ireland. So does this mean I can let my mother drive the car until summer 2017 and then get her to buy it off me/transfer the ownership over - and in the meantime have her as a named driver under me? Or can I get her to pay me for the car and just not transfer the ownership until the 12 months is up. Or does the 12 month period even apply to me since I am not moving back to Ireland for now.

    I will be looking to buy another car for myself in the summer if I can bring the first one back and give it to her. I don't see myself as being resident in Ireland for the next few years.

    I would appreciate any advice/previous experiences.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    forrestgolfer wrote: »
    I don't see myself as being resident in Ireland for the next few years.
    VRT exemption doesn't apply to you if you are not resident.


  • #3
    hurleronditch
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭hurleronditch


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    VRT exemption doesn't apply to you if you are not resident.

    Most people from Ireland would have a "live" home address they could use for reregistration over here and technically what the OP is doing could be done (provided the car stayed in his ownership/registration) for the 12 month period once he brings it home.

    That being said however, it is clearly dubious from a legal perspective, and I'm not sure how the department won't twig what you are up to as in 12 months time you will be selling one recently imported car and bringing a new one. Home simultaneously, whilst claiming you have been in the UK for all that period.

    So I'd see it as doable, but not advisable and has huge risk that you could get whacked with at least one massive VRT Bill in a years time


  • #4
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    VRT exemption doesn't apply to you if you are not resident.

    it only applies on transfer of your main residence into the State


  • #5
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Its not that simple, Revenue have seen this all before and look for all kinds of information/documentation from you that you have in fact moved here permanently.
    You can take a chance but you will be going down a track that is well worn.


  • #6
    Cherry Blossom
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 6,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    It's quite a few years since I did this but I was in England studying for a year. The EU law the VRT exemption falls under is migration of 'workers'. They wanted a years worth of payslips from an employer in the UK and something confirming I had secured employment in ROI and I was unable to provide either so I had to pay the VRT.


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  • #7
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • #8
    RoisinD
    Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭RoisinD


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Its not that simple, Revenue have seen this all before and look for all kinds of information/documentation from you that you have in fact moved here permanently.
    You can take a chance but you will be going down a track that is well worn.

    This. Having been through the procedure the amount of information they ask for is unreal. I personally found it a humiliating and nasty experience to the point where I said I would pay the VRT even though my claim was legitimate. They need so much info, proof of your employment in UK, your address and proof you have sold up (if you had property to sell) utility bills, proof you have left your job in UK, proof you have taken up residence in Ireland and on and on.
    Why not just pay the VRT rather than try and circumvent the system. As others have said if you or your mother is caught the consequences are not worth it. She may lose the car and have to pay a big fine and who knows what else.


  • #9
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • #10
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,869 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    RoisinD wrote: »
    As others have said if you or your mother is caught the consequences are not worth it. She may lose the car and have to pay a big fine and who knows what else.

    The OPs mother won't get caught by revenue as they don't check Irish reg vehicles. The OP will be in trouble if they try to import another vehicle and try for VRT exemption.
    Where the OPs mother would be in trouble is insurance as she has no interest in it so can't insure it, if the OP insures it and ads the mother it'd be fronting and possible insurance fraud as they are not resident.


  • #11
    stesaurus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭stesaurus


    As mentioned already you will need a lot of paper work. First to prove you were in the UK and then second that you will be permanently back in Ireland. Mine was genuine and still took a couple of months and a lot of stress.
    You might get away with 1 car but not a second. Sounds like a hell of a lot of hassle. Just get a car for yourself and bring it back genuinely if you ever return.


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  • #12
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Attempting a fiddle like this makes it likely that you will have to pay the VRT on the first car and that you do not get to import one if you do genuinely move in a few years.


  • #13
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,183 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    forrestgolfer wrote: »
    I have been a resident in the UK for the past 6 months, and am going to buy a car in January. Therefore in July 2016 I will have been a resident of the UK for 12 months and have owned the car for 6.

    In the summer I am thinking of bringing the car back to Ireland for my mother, as she has been thinking of upgrading.

    My understanding of the situation is that I cannot sell the car for 12 months once it's back in Ireland. So does this mean I can let my mother drive the car until summer 2017 and then get her to buy it off me/transfer the ownership over - and in the meantime have her as a named driver under me? Or can I get her to pay me for the car and just not transfer the ownership until the 12 months is up. Or does the 12 month period even apply to me since I am not moving back to Ireland for now.

    I will be looking to buy another car for myself in the summer if I can bring the first one back and give it to her. I don't see myself as being resident in Ireland for the next few years.

    I would appreciate any advice/previous experiences.
    What you are proposing would amount to a fraud and, as such, is not advisable nor a suitable subject bearing in mind Boards charter.


  • #14
    RoisinD
    Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭RoisinD


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Glad you found it a positive experience. The staff were helpful it was the amount of information I had to provide that made it a nasty experience.

    I did not and still do not understand why I had to provide a history of my life in UK, including my work history, my financial situation, my residential status both here and the UK and so much else to bring my car into the country. I could prove I had bought and paid for the car and had already owned it for 3 years why should they need my life history as well? If I ever had to go through it again I would rather pay the VRT. I have spoken to others who feel the same and none can see the need for all the paperwork.


  • #15
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • #16
    forrestgolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭forrestgolfer


    Many thanks for all the replies. I will try to clarify some of the items below.
    hurleronditch wrote: »
    Most people from Ireland would have a "live" home address they could use for reregistration over here and technically what the OP is doing could be done (provided the car stayed in his ownership/registration) for the 12 month period once he brings it home.

    That being said however, it is clearly dubious from a legal perspective, and I'm not sure how the department won't twig what you are up to as in 12 months time you will be selling one recently imported car and bringing a new one. Home simultaneously, whilst claiming you have been in the UK for all that period.

    So I'd see it as doable, but not advisable and has huge risk that you could get whacked with at least one massive VRT Bill in a years time

    I won't be bringing the second car home it will be for my use in the UK where I will be for the foreseeable future.
    Del2005 wrote: »
    The OPs mother won't get caught by revenue as they don't check Irish reg vehicles. The OP will be in trouble if they try to import another vehicle and try for VRT exemption.
    Where the OPs mother would be in trouble is insurance as she has no interest in it so can't insure it, if the OP insures it and ads the mother it'd be fronting and possible insurance fraud as they are not resident.

    With my job I typically come back to Ireland at least once a month, and would probably be in the country approximately 50 days a year give or take. Therefore if I insured the car in my own name and put her as a named driver surely this would be ok as I would be driving the car when I was home. I still have an address and an active bank account here.
    s.welstead wrote: »
    As mentioned already you will need a lot of paper work. First to prove you were in the UK and then second that you will be permanently back in Ireland. Mine was genuine and still took a couple of months and a lot of stress.
    You might get away with 1 car but not a second. Sounds like a hell of a lot of hassle. Just get a car for yourself and bring it back genuinely if you ever return.

    I won't be bringing back the second car, that will be my car for living in the UK. I won't be able to prove that I'm coming back to Ireland.
    Marcusm wrote: »
    What you are proposing would amount to a fraud and, as such, is not advisable nor a suitable subject bearing in mind Boards charter.

    Hardly now to be fair.


    Having read all the replies, I guess it is the fact that I won't be able to prove that I have a job secured back in the Republic that will scupper this?


  • #17
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    Fraud may be the wrong word, but they treat Tax Avoidance very severely if they catch you.


  • #18
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    forrestgolfer wrote: »
    With my job I typically come back to Ireland at least once a month, and would probably be in the country approximately 50 days a year give or take. Therefore if I insured the car in my own name and put her as a named driver surely this would be ok as I would be driving the car when I was home

    You might be able to keep a UK reg car, but your mother would not be allowed drive it. You cannot import a car without paying the VRT as you have not moved residence.

    Importing a car without VRT is a convenience for a person permanently moving, not for people coming on holiday, wishing to give a car to relatives or whatever.
    I still have an address and an active bank account here.

    Given this and your mother living here, there is a case that your normal residence remains in Ireland and so you'd never be entitled to import anything.


  • #19
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,183 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    forrestgolfer wrote: »
    Hardly now to be fair.

    Having read all the replies, I guess it is the fact that I won't be able to prove that I have a job secured back in the Republic that will scupper this?

    You may not have done sufficient research but the exemption is due only on the genuine transfer of residence and exists only to ensure that VRT does not infringe on the freedom of movement of people under the EU treaty. Seeking to obtain the exemption in the manner you propose without satisfying the requirement is fraud plain and simple.

    In addition, suggesting to the insurance company that you are Irish resident when you are not is also an offence.

    I am Irish and live in the UK. I have 3 cars and 2 homes; if I could legitimately import a car VRT free I would. If I could legitimately insure an Irish reg car, I would. It's simply impossible to do so legitimately.
    savagethegoat wrote: »
    Fraud may be the wrong word, but they treat Tax Avoidance very severely if they catch you.

    Fraud (or tax evasion) is the precise word: avoidance is taking legal action to reduce the incidence of tax (IRC v Willoughby)


  • #20
    forrestgolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭forrestgolfer


    Marcusm wrote: »
    You may not have done sufficient research but the exemption is due only on the genuine transfer of residence and exists only to ensure that VRT does not infringe on the freedom of movement of people under the EU treaty. Seeking to obtain the exemption in the manner you propose without satisfying the requirement is fraud plain and simple.

    In addition, suggesting to the insurance company that you are Irish resident when you are not is also an offence.

    I am Irish and live in the UK. I have 3 cars and 2 homes; if I could legitimately import a car VRT free I would. If I could legitimately insure an Irish reg car, I would. It's simply impossible to do so legitimately.



    Fraud (or tax evasion) is the precise word: avoidance is taking legal action to reduce the incidence of tax (IRC v Willoughby)

    😂😂😂😂 the absolute state of you I read all your recent posts all you do is lay down the letter of the law. All I wanted to do was try to see what the situation would be. I wasn't trying to commit fraud or do anything of the like. I didn't know what the rules are and I wanted to find out what they are.The likes of you is why I detest boards all you do is sit learning off the rule book and read from it and correct people at the first opportunity. I'd say you're good craic at the parties you go to.


  • #21
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    no need to turn nasty because you didn't get the advice you wanted. I thought it was the letter of the Law you were asking for!


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  • #22
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,183 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    savagethegoat wrote: »
    no need to turn nasty because you didn't get the advice you wanted. I thought it was the letter of the Law you were asking for!

    To be fair, that's it nasty, the PM he sent me was nasty. This is merely mild.


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