Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

brimal wrote: »

To all the naysayers - would you rather he not accept the severance pay and the sum gets swallowed up by the government budget, potentially being spent/wasted on something not as important?

I can only answer for myself but I'd prefer if he didn't take it at all.

The opposite argument - that the Government can't be trusted to spend money wisely - would be fine if he weren't a government TD himself.

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Does he donate the money after tax, as he stated the amount to be €34k.

Yeah but the charity can claim a certain amount of the tax back so it comes up to 50k for them.

John_C wrote: »

Yeah but the charity can claim a certain amount of the tax back so it comes up to 50k for them.

How does that work, surly he has to receive the payment first, in order to pas it on to the charity.

golfball37 wrote: »

The cynic in me is wondering who is on the baord of the Jack and Jill foundation and what are her/his connections to FG?

Well Shatter and Jonathan Irwin have been 'close friends' for years, apparently.

Irwin has allowed himself to be used in a political stunt here

brimal wrote: »

I mean in terms of government spending it is a small sum. I work hard for my money too and it would be a huge sum for me. Honestly I think you are just looking for something to be outraged about.

This goes to the heart of a long running problem with Irish governments (of all persuasions). Taxpayers money is seen as a slush fund to be handed out by politicians. The expert here was Charlie Haughey, who'd increase taxes and then hand out "entitlements". Ah but sure Charlie was great, didn't he give us the "free travel". Taxpayers are entitled to get value for the money they are paying over, and your blase attitude that "sure they'd just waste it somewhere else" is exactly the type of attitude that causes us to have a high tax and low government services economy. We shouldn't accept any politician bribing us with our own money.

Again, I'll ask you to answer my question please, would you rather Shatter keep the money for himself, give it back to government or give to charity? That was the only choice.

He could have refused the money. Full stop. The same way as politicians who are taking the minimum wage while accepting their full salaries are leeching off the working person who pays tax.

latynova wrote: »

However, it was his legal right to accept the money.

The classic defence of the Irish politician. We can't cut public sector pensions because it is their right. We can't cut banker salaries because it is their right. I had to accept the payoff because it was my right. All crying themselves to sleep on a bed of money.

latynova wrote: »

It becomes serious when the country's leader is making it known that it he disapproves of other people availing of their legal rights...;

I disapprove of the severance pay, am glad it's gone, but nobody should ever be told that they should not avail of their rights. It's dangerous territory.

Shatter was part of the cabinet that negotiated the abolition of these payments, the fact that it hadn't been signed into law is neither here nor there, it would have been the hight of hypocrisy to accept it.
However he did the next best thing, but not without making a song and dance about it, making it as much a media circus for himself as he could.

latynova wrote: »

The document had not been signed by Howlin. Would you expect to have to honour a contract that you had not signed? It was people's legal right to report instituitonal child abuse but the government didn't allow people to avail of that right. It's the same thing. If you deny a person one right where do you stop? Rights cannot be denied, there is no point to them if they can be.

He wasn't denied anything. He was 'urged' to do the right thing. Others expressed their confidence he would do the 'honourable' thing. Mainly because they feared the detrimental effect it could have on the pending elections.

I am just flabergasted by this and frankly I have just about given up. Shatter got privileged position in the Dail to stand up and defend himself and make his case to a packed media audience, where he complained about not being interviewed before a decision was made. The irony is astounding. Shatter stood up in the Dail and accused Maurice McCabe of not co-operating with with enquiries - when McCabe also had not been questioned. It's not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot - eh, Alan? The difference is - McCabe was a small man and you could have given him a voice - but you smothered him at every turn. You are a big man, and have recourse to the biggest platform in the country, and you aren't shy about using it for your own advantage - which you did today. You used our national parliament to vent your own personal grievance. Fúck you. We pay your salary and we had to pay to listen to that ****e. I went to work today and paid tax and some of that tax went towards paying you to come out with your personal vendetta. Fúck you again. I think you are a fúckin wanker. You spent the last few weeks taking our money into your bank account while you prepared a speech about how you felt you were hard done by. What have you done for me in the last few weeks? How have you justified your salary on behalf of the Irish tax payer? Seriously Alan - what have you done for us? Fúck you!

bajer101 wrote: »

I am just flabergasted by this and frankly I have just about given up. Shatter got privileged position in the Dail to stand up and defend himself and make his case to a packed media audience, where he complained about not being interviewed before a decision was made. The irony is astounding. Shatter stood up in the Dail and accused Maurice McCabe of not co-operating with with enquiries - when McCabe also had not been questioned. It's not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot - eh, Alan? The difference is - McCabe was a small man and you could have given him a voice - but you smothered him at every turn. You are a big man, and have recourse to the biggest platform in the country, and you aren't shy about using it for your own advantage - which you did today. You used our national parliament to vent your own personal grievance. Fúck you. We pay your salary and we had to pay to listen to that ****e. I went to work today and paid tax and some of that tax went towards paying you to come out with your personal vendetta. Fúck you again. I think you are a fúckin wanker. You spent the last few weeks taking our money into your bank account while you prepared a speech about how you felt you were hard done by. What have you done for me in the last few weeks? How have you justified your salary on behalf of the Irish tax payer? Seriously Alan - what have you done for us? Fúck you!

may i add i have had cut to my invididaty pension so you can rant and rave, if you shafter feel outraged imagne how i and a lot more like me feel, thanks op for helping me vent my feelings.

Godge wrote: »

This is typical of a lot of the debate around here. Ignore what is being said and go after the speaker.

Ok, so let's focus on what's being said. He's publicly attacking one judge led enquiry for finding him guilty of something pretty much everyone expected him to be found guilty of, while simultaneously using another judge led enquiry as a stick to beat GSOC with, even though that enquiry broadly exonerated GSOC's reaction to the Verrimus report and acknowledged that there were still unexplained incidents which needed to be looked into.

In other words, he's being just a tad hypocritical. Most of his accusations don't stand up against Guerin, but they do stand up against Cooke's report, if one reads it with Shatters remarks re Guerin in mind.

To be honest I'm very surprised. I wanted Shatter gone from the moment he smeared Wallace using private info all those many centuries (it seems) ago, but I honestly afforded him more dignity than to be the type of politician who delivers a John O'Donoghue style parting shot subsequent to his resignation (remember "I hope the irony will not be lost on you that I stand here on my evening of defeat in a magnificent hall which I helped to build"?)

Muahahaha wrote: »

All that matters is that Shatter is gone, one of the worst Ministers for Justice in the history of the State is no longer in a position to pretend we don't need reform in AGS.

Let him have his retribution, it only makes him look worse in the eyes of the public. He is now a laughing stock in the Dail and a laughing stock in the Law Library where the jokes about him have being going around thick and fast for weeks now. He will be forever known as the smart and successful lawyer who was outsmarted and humiliated by a hippie builder from Wexford, a stoner from Roscommon and a Garda Sergeant who was smarter and cuter than them all. I bet Shatter still hasn't come to terms with what has actually happened, he is still in the denial phase and this latest speech is testament to that.

Excellent.

So after all the rows, scandals and resignations that followed the whisteblower saga, it seems that (as I expected!) all the promises of reform have been quietly buried. A report today says:

Two senior members of the Gardai have been given hefty fines for wrongly quashing penalty points.

The inquiry found evidence of favouritism by gardai in quashing points, with many others fined for lesser amounts.

Fines?? AGS are in a position where they are frequently judge, jury and executioner (particularly in relation to penalty points and road traffic offences) and so even though this inquiry has formally validated what everyone already knew - that like so much else in this country, it all depends on who you know - it seems it's still one rule of them, and another for the rest of us!

I somehow can't see myself getting a slap on the wrist if I had access to and tampered with official files like they have been found guilty of yet that's exactly what's happened here it seems - no mention of what these "hefty" fines are of course, how many have been handed out, and over what terms they have to be paid but somehow I don't think it'll impact the guilty members paycheques too badly!

I could ask why no-one was actually y'know, FIRED and brought up on criminal charges and given jail time if found guilty (as these Gardai have been) but then again things like that are just for the "little people" in this country after all.

Guess the supposed AGS reform is about as deep as Kenny's "new style" of politics, but I can't say I'm surprised really.. just disgusted once again with this "republic" of ours.