STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Sorry for hijacking thread but we are in the exact same quandary! Fitting a Dimplex westcott 4kw inset stove in our front room and a Dimplex multi fuel 5 kw pot belly stove in our kitchen come living area. At the stage of tearing out old fireplaces and left with openings minus firebacks. As you mentioned earlier I am fitting the inset without a firebacks but unsure how to make up the sand/cement/vermiculite mix and exactly how far to go with it up the back of the inset? Also I would preferr to fit some sort of adaptor from the stove to the chimney even though not necessary according to manufacturer as above also!
I would also like to be able to just use the existing chimney with the pot belly stove with adaptor to chimney directly from top of stove due to lack of funds to afford lining the flu however won't know the state of play till after getting both chimneys cleaned!
Cheers for all your help stove fan!
T

Hi. See this video for the mix ratio.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsrhGu58eq8

Mix the vermiculite mix so it's slightly damp and fill all the void right up around the inset stove to the top. Then mix up the lime mortar over the top and angle it down to the fire flue opening. This is so any soot wont gather and mostly fall into the fire.

It's only really necessary to use an adapter on an inset fire if your going to line the chimney. If your chimney is clay lined and in good condition you shouldn't have to line it. Use the above method if this is the case.
If it's an unlined chimney it would be best to line the chimney.
If you can afford the liner anyway it would be a much better job as the whole flue and any voids above the inset stove can be backfilled with dry vermiculite poured from the top of the chimney. This insulates the chimney and so keeps the flue warmer and so increases its draw.

With regards to your pot belly stove it really depends on the fireplace and if its to be top flued or rear. If rear flued try to only use 2, 45 degree bends one fitted directly on the stoves rear outlet and the other on the end of the short section of pipe to point vertically and then use a clay liner adapter if the flue is clay lined.
If unlined it would be best to line the chimney again. It's really up to you providing the chimney is sound though.

If sitting in an opening use the top flue outlet and fit a closure plate and then use a clay adapter if clay lined.

Another option is for the stove to sit in front of the chimney. I would use the top flue outlet and then use a 45 degree bend on the stove and break into the chimney and fit a soot door below at the base of the chimney to clean out the soot.

Have a good new year:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan wrote: »

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Sorry for hijacking thread but we are in the exact same quandary! Fitting a Dimplex westcott 4kw inset stove in our front room and a Dimplex multi fuel 5 kw pot belly stove in our kitchen come living area. At the stage of tearing out old fireplaces and left with openings minus firebacks. As you mentioned earlier I am fitting the inset without a firebacks but unsure how to make up the sand/cement/vermiculite mix and exactly how far to go with it up the back of the inset? Also I would preferr to fit some sort of adaptor from the stove to the chimney even though not necessary according to manufacturer as above also!
I would also like to be able to just use the existing chimney with the pot belly stove with adaptor to chimney directly from top of stove due to lack of funds to afford lining the flu however won't know the state of play till after getting both chimneys cleaned!
Cheers for all your help stove fan!
T

Hi. See this video for the mix ratio.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsrhGu58eq8

Mix the vermiculite mix so it's slightly damp and fill all the void right up around the inset stove to the top. Then mix up the lime mortar over the top and angle it down to the fire flue opening. This is so any soot wont gather and mostly fall into the fire.

It's only really necessary to use an adapter on an inset fire if your going to line the chimney. If your chimney is clay lined and in good condition you shouldn't have to line it. Use the above method if this is the case.
If it's an unlined chimney it would be best to line the chimney.
If you can afford the liner anyway it would be a much better job as the whole flue and any voids above the inset stove can be backfilled with dry vermiculite poured from the top of the chimney. This insulates the chimney and so keeps the flue warmer and so increases its draw.

With regards to your pot belly stove it really depends on the fireplace and if its to be top flued or rear. If rear flued try to only use 2, 45 degree bends one fitted directly on the stoves rear outlet and the other on the end of the short section of pipe to point vertically and then use a clay liner adapter if the flue is clay lined.
If unlined it would be best to line the chimney again. It's really up to you providing the chimney is sound though.

If sitting in an opening use the top flue outlet and fit a closure plate and then use a clay adapter if clay lined.

Another option is for the stove to sit in front of the chimney. I would use the top flue outlet and then use a 45 degree bend on the stove and break into the chimney and fit a soot door below at the base of the chimney to clean out the soot.

Have a good new year:)

Stove Fan:)

Hi sf.
Cheers for the sound advice. We are fitting the pot belly stove into the opening and hope to use the top flue outlet. Can you buy registry/ closure plates in most builders providers or are they made to fit? I thought one could just put a clue connector from chimney to stove outlet? Is it to stop fumes etc entering. The home?
Regards

dwiseman wrote: »

We are currently building an extension and want to put a multi fuel stove in it. Because of the layout of furniture etc we will need to put the stove in a corner or as close to the corner of the room as possible. Regarding the flue we intend on going out through the wall and running an external flue up the outside wall. So I was wondering if anyone had experience of corner stoves and if so what would you recommend? Im not sure that it needs to be a corner stove, but at least a stove which can be placed in the corner of a room and we would need to know how close can a stove be to a double glazed door without it posing some kind of danger, the corner we intend putting it in is where the side wall with all of our kitchen cabinets etc meets the back wall which will have double sliding glass doors, so we have 14ft of glazing on the wall with 4ft of wall on either side? Our budget for the stove would be €900 (seperate to the price of the flue, installation etc) and we are hoping to go for a 7kw stove. We just cant seem to find a solution and keep getting wildly varying advice so Im putting it in the hands of boards.... cheers!!

Hi:) Any stove can be fitted into a corner providing it's got the needed clearance to combustibles.

Any chance of a photo showing the proposed location with measurements of the width? Are the walls solid or hollow when tapped? What is the floor make up, concrete or timber?

Stove Fan:)

Stove fan, about 14 years ago we installed a Nestor Martin kerosine stove and had no trouble until a few days ago when we went to light it, after a while the glass was pitch black we turned it off and later cleaned out the pot which had a lot of fluffy cinders ( this pot is regularly cleaned ). My husband lit it again, it had a yellow flame on one side and the glass was black again, we don't know whats wrong and wonder if its the chimney as its never been cleaned since we put the stove in. Any advice will be very welcome.

Hi dwiseman

These clearances have to be met with the stanley oisin. Other stoves will have different clearance requirements.

[/B]
CLEARANCE TO COMBUSTIBLES

Side wall to stove 20” 510mm
Back wall to stove non-boiler model 15” 380mm
Back wall to stove boiler model 12” 305mm
Ceiling to horizontal connector 18” 460mm
Corner 13” 330mm
Mantle clearance 25” 635mm
Side trim, which extends less than 2”[/LEFT]
from the face of the fireplace 14” 355mm


These clearances are from the stanley oisin installation and user instructions on page 6 of this link below give it time to download as with my wireless internet took about 3 mins.
http://www.waterfordstanley.com/SiteImages/Site_131/PDF/OisinSF.pdf
It also covers your corner installation with a diagram. When the stove is installed in corner it has to have 13 inches clearance from each stoves edges to the wall.

Have a read of the hearth siting literature but as your floor is concrete and providing it's not combustible it's fine to place straight onto the floor, although if you prefer to mount it on a sheet of marble etc then thats fine, I prefer this. You would have to do this if this part of the floor is going to be flammable. Ie laminate/hardwood floating floor over the concrete or carpet ie marble fixed direct to the concrete floor and laminate/carpet cut around marble.

With regards to the flue use twin wall insulated chimney through the wall and above the roof. It really depends on the layout as to how high the flue goes.

You can use single walled enameled pipe inside up to the twin wall providing the wall isn't drylined ie plasterboard/insulated slab, ie kingspan. If the wall is direct wet plastered then it's non combustible. If the wall uses plasterboard or insulated plasterboards the flue pipe would need to be further away and the wall heat shielded.
See:

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/flue-distance-to-combustibles.html.

If not fully confident of the regulations get a proffesional in.


Stove Fan:)

arandale wrote: »

Stove fan, about 14 years ago we installed a Nestor Martin kerosine stove and had no trouble until a few days ago when we went to light it, after a while the glass was pitch black we turned it off and later cleaned out the pot which had a lot of fluffy cinders ( this pot is regularly cleaned ). My husband lit it again, it had a yellow flame on one side and the glass was black again, we don't know whats wrong and wonder if its the chimney as its never been cleaned since we put the stove in. Any advice will be very welcome.

Hi,

The fire needs servicing by a trained oil installer who has the right tools to adjust the air/oil ratio mix, sweep the chimney and fully service it.

The glass and pot sooting up is a sure sign of incomplete combustion.

Don't use the fire until serviced!! Carbon monoxide poisoning is lethal!!

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan,

Thanks for the info. I'll be having words with my supplier /installer in the morning to see what they say regarding the flue setup. The flue pipes are twin walled. With regards to horizontal runs, the flue is horizontal for approx 100mm inside the livingroom before it enters the external wall and again for another 100mm on the outside of the wall, total approx 500mm. Is this acceptable? (sorry, stove installation is not my area of expertise:()

Apart from being difficult to clean, in your opinion is it a dangerous installation i.e. should I stop using it?

Thanks again

DC

just read it from first to last post and theres some might stuff in it
now i have a question or two for ya
the diagram below is a common electrical heating control found in a lot of one off house in my local area ....question is whats best pratice on the addition of a solid fuel stove to the system

liveandnetural wrote: »

just read it from first to last post and theres some might stuff in it
now i have a question or two for ya
the diagram below is a common electrical heating control found in a lot of one off house in my local area ....question is whats best pratice on the addition of a solid fuel stove to the system

It's not something I have any great experiance in:( I used to fit gas combi boilers. I have only fitted basic open vented solid fuel heating.

With regards to adding a boiler stove to a zoned system it depends on where and how the zones are positioned.
The main priorities are that the zone valves fall open should the power fail; see http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Valves/Motorised-Valves/V4043-Motorised-Valves/
Your solid fuel boiler must have a clear unobstructed cold feed and vent pipe with no controls fitted on these pipes that could block the pipe and a gravity heat leak radiator before any other controls. If your trying to link an open vented solid fuel boiler to a sealed system this complicates things more.

The system link is good as it has the required linking of different boilers safely and the zone controls can be bought as a package.
http://www.systemlink.ie/home
See solid fuel combinations.
http://www.systemlink.ie/products/systemzone

You need to get some plumbers in to look at your system and zone valves to design a safe installation:)

Stove Fan:)

Built an extension and I'm putting a solid fuel stove in it wondering what kw of a stove I should be looking at the room is 18feet long by 13ftlong also has a vaulted ceiling which the furthest height being 12feet high its quite a big room would I be looking at a 8kw solid fuel stove.

Stove Fan, you were on the ball, we had a man out today and he spent 2 hours and then said a new box has to be fitted, i can;t remember the name but it regulates the combustion.

We had work done in the house last week and only today noticed that a coin the installer placed under one of the legs was missing, so the stove wasn't fully balanced when my husband used the level, we have to wait till Tues now and i hope it will be ok then, Thanks again

toshy321 wrote: »

Built an extension and I'm putting a solid fuel stove in it wondering what kw of a stove I should be looking at the room is 18feet long by 13ftlong also has a vaulted ceiling which the furthest height being 12feet high its quite a big room would I be looking at a 8kw solid fuel stove.

Depending on the insulation levels I think the max Kw you would need is 7kw. If it's super insulated 5-6kw would probably be more than ample. Depends really on how hot you like it and if you want to leave doors open to help heat other rooms:)

We have a 5.7x5.9 metre living room (modern extension) with standard 4 inch cavity with 70mm aeroboard platinum with 50mm kingspan drylining slabs inside and it's lovely and warm even with only 200mm loft insulation above.

Our heat from our small boiler stove is enough about 4kw but as you have a vaulted ceiling I think if your insulation specs are similar then a 6kw stove should adequately heat the space.

Stove Fan:)

torres3011 wrote: »

Hi Stove Fan,

Just to let you know I went and bought a Stratford Inset Eco Boiler the 12 HE Model yesterday. Came in a bit cheaper than the Esse 350 GS or the Charnwood I was thinking of getting first day. Also a nice looking stove in the flesh and seems a bit more solid to my eye than the Esse when both were side by side in the show room.

It should give 12 to the water and 5 to the room according to their own information. Any thoughts or things i should tell the plumber to watch out for during installation maybe?

As they are UK stoves would you have heard much about them?

Thanks again.

Hi:) Glad that your getting one fitted, it's nice to know what you decided in the end:)

The Aarrow stratford range are well known and are generally a good stove. The EB range has replaced the smaller stratfords and is very new and hasn't been out long but it should be a reliable brand.

The main things which I'm sure the plumber is aware of is to slightly angle the flow pipes up and use all 4 boiler outlets if possible. Make sure the pipes are crossflowed. Ie don't just use each side tappings, use the tapping diagonally opposite each other. The pipework to cylinder should be 1 inch and have a gravity rad off this pipework in the event of a powercut.

The fire once it's inset and plumbed and filled with water I would backfill with the damp vermiculite/sand/cement mix, filling all voids at the sides and back and as much as the top as possible. If not using a liner then angle the vermiculite mix and flaunch it upwards from the fire flue exit with lime so that any soot can fall into the fire. If using a liner then backfill the flue liner with vermiculite.

Let us know what you think of it when its been working a few days:D

Stove Fan:)

leitrimboy wrote: »

Concerning the plumbing to a solid fuel stove i was told by a plumber that only 2 of the 4 tappings need to be used I am about to install a brosley 30 kw stove into a central heating system and additional flow and return pipes would mean considerable disruption Is it imperative to use all 4 tappings ?i

Hi:) No it's not essential, just best practice and how I always plumb them in. What I would do though is join both flow outlets to each other and both returns to each other at the back of the stove. This way your using the 4 outlets but only have 2 pipes. Some manufacturers advice doing this if only using two pipes.

This prevents cold spots and hot spots within the boiler. Just join them together using 1 inch compression elbows and tees.

Stove Fan:)