Do you think its fair parents bring young babies on flights for a holiday ?

Frank Black · 12-07-2013 2:32pm

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Yeah, when someone starts demanding that I give up my seat so they don't have to sit in the one next to their own kids I tend to drop the social niceties, as they tend to be wasted on her sort

So, you allow them to drag you down to their level?

That's unfortunate - if everyone was like you, the world would be full of people calling each ***** all the time.

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 2:35pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Ah so shove em down the back of the plane like they did with the blacks in the 40s/50s? What %of the seats are allocated family section? What if one day there is only one family of 3 flying is the rest of the area left free? What if there are 7 families compromised of 35 people are they allowed in the "non family" part?

Does the sound of a crying child not carry from the family section? Finally please explain who is forcing ypu to sit next to families at the moment? 90% of the people complaining are on ryanair low cost flights that allow you to sit ANYWHERE!

fWIW I will be flying Ryanair Dublin to Liverpool on August the 1st with my partner and 18 month old son. If he cries and this upsets anyone who may be on the same flight please feel free to come over to me and say so;)

Just an Idea that was the result of a poll by Skyscanner, over half of the 2000 people surveyed agreed with it... I don't really care either way, noise isolating headphones.

From my side I think its a bit sad to see a screaming kid with a cold that clearly can't equalise it's inner ear as an Adult I know how painful that is as I've experienced it a few times but as an Adult I can control myself and not get more and more upset because I don't understand whats happening.

If I had to explain it, it feel like someone is sitting on your face and the resulting pressure is almost pushing out your eyes.

If its noticed that a young baby is congested getting on the flight they shouldn't be left fly imo.

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 2:35pm

Frank Black wrote: »

So, you allow them to drag you down to their level?

That's unfortunate - if everyone was like you, the world would be full of people calling each ***** all the time.

Sometimes you have to talk to them in their own language for them to understand what you are saying.:)

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 2:39pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Just an Idea that was the result of a poll by Skyscanner, over half of the 2000 people surveyed agreed with it... I don't really care either way, noise isolating headphones.

From my side I think its a bit sad to see a screaming kid with a cold that clearly can't equalise it's inner ear as an Adult I know how painful that is as I've experienced it a few times but as an Adult I can control myself and not get more and more upset because I don't understand whats happening.

If I had to explain it, it feel like someone is sitting on your face and the resulting pressure is almost pushing out your eyes.

If its noticed that a young baby is congested getting on the flight they shouldn't be left fly imo.

I get where you are coming from but if a family has booked an expensive holiday and has waited for months to go you think they should be stopped from flying because baby has a cold?

In that case i would start demanding all the adults with colds sniffing and snotting all over the place be stopped. What about the smokers hawking their lungs up all the way across the ocean. I once sat next to a guy flying to New York and i swear 3 hours into the journey he had covered the whole screen of the tv in the headrest in front with his spittle:eek:

Frank Black · 12-07-2013 2:40pm

keithclancy wrote: »

If I had to explain it, it feel like someone is sitting on your face and the resulting pressure is almost pushing out your eyes.

But is this 'someone' female and hot?
Because that wouldn't be too bad.

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 2:50pm

bumper234 wrote: »

I get where you are coming from but if a family has booked an expensive holiday and has waited for months to go you think they should be stopped from flying because baby has a cold?

In that case i would start demanding all the adults with colds sniffing and snotting all over the place be stopped. What about the smokers hawking their lungs up all the way across the ocean. I once sat next to a guy flying to New York and i swear 3 hours into the journey he had covered the whole screen of the tv in the headrest in front with his spittle:eek:

Well if its an Adult its at their own risk for one.
If its a Family the parents might be taking the risk because they have paid X amount of money going on Holidays, or they might just be unaware of the risks.

In general if you have a visible medical condition such as breathing difficulties the Airline will not let you fly without a doctors cert (Like wheezing/asthma or a bandage over your head from a recent injury)

But if your baby has for example an ear infection/sinus infection (which can be confused with a cold and also can be the result of one) it is not recommended that you fly as they cannot naturally equalise and no amount of decongestant is going to help, if you do so you risk a perforated eardrum.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ruptured-eardrum/DS00499/DSECTION=prevention

At the very least your baby should be checked out by your GP before you go.

AFAIK in the event of an ear infection nobody should fly until antibiotics kick in.

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 3:15pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Well if its an Adult its at their own risk for one.
If its a Family the parents might be taking the risk because they have paid X amount of money going on Holidays, or they might just be unaware of the risks.

In general if you have a visible medical condition such as breathing difficulties the Airline will not let you fly without a doctors cert (Like wheezing/asthma or a bandage over your head from a recent injury)

But if your baby has for example an ear infection/sinus infection (which can be confused with a cold and also can be the result of one) it is not recommended that you fly as they cannot naturally equalise and no amount of decongestant is going to help, if you do so you risk a perforated eardrum.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ruptured-eardrum/DS00499/DSECTION=prevention

At the very least your baby should be checked out by your GP before you go.

AFAIK in the event of an ear infection nobody should fly until antibiotics kick in.

You link to the Mayo clinic. Nowhere does it say children shouldn't fly and nowhere does it say baby risks a perforated eardrum so thanks for the scare tactics.

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/pages/Flying-with-Baby.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

If your baby has a cold or ear infection, discuss with your pediatrician whether you should give him an infant pain reliever. Unfortunately, decongestants have not been proven to help, and in fact are not recommended for use in infants. For children with significant ear discomfort associated with a cold and/or ear infection, it may simply be best, if possible, to postpone flying. If your travel plans are not flexible enough to cancel because of a cold, just be aware of your increased odds of dealing with ear pain when you do hop aboard.

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 3:46pm

bumper234 wrote: »

You link to the Mayo clinic. Nowhere does it say children shouldn't fly and nowhere does it say baby risks a perforated eardrum so thanks for the scare tactics.

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/pages/Flying-with-Baby.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

If your baby has a cold or ear infection, discuss with your pediatrician whether you should give him an infant pain reliever. Unfortunately, decongestants have not been proven to help, and in fact are not recommended for use in infants. For children with significant ear discomfort associated with a cold and/or ear infection, it may simply be best, if possible, to postpone flying. If your travel plans are not flexible enough to cancel because of a cold, just be aware of your increased odds of dealing with ear pain when you do hop aboard.

Well as a person that has had a perforated eardrum as a result of a sinus infection and flying I can tell you first hand that it is a risk.

Anything that increases or decreases external pressure is a risk (E.G. Diving or Travelling on a Plane) when you cannot equalise due to having an infection is a risk.

Decongestant makes no difference because your airways are blocked due to swelling in the passages.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Perforated-eardrum/Pages/Causes.aspx

NHS is good enough ?

Pumpkinseeds · 12-07-2013 3:50pm

Frank Black wrote: »

So, you allow them to drag you down to their level?

That's unfortunate - if everyone was like you, the world would be full of people calling each ***** all the time.

Yeah Frank, that's how life works. A polite NO doesn't work with people like that, it would be nice if it did, better still it would be even nicer if people like that didn't exist. I could have argued on and on with her but cutting to the chase and putting it to her as I did saved me a lot of time and hassle.

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 3:53pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Well as a person that has had a perforated eardrum as a result of a sinus infection and flying I can tell you first hand that it is a risk.

Anything that increases or decreases external pressure is a risk (E.G. Diving or Travelling on a Plane) when you cannot equalise due to having an infection is a risk.

Decongestant makes no difference because your airways are blocked due to swelling in the passages.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Perforated-eardrum/Pages/Causes.aspx

NHS is good enough ?

Sometimes, the amount of pus in your ear can build up so much that the eardrum bursts, allowing the pus to escape

Sudden changes in air pressure, such as when changing altitude in an aircraft, often cause pain in the ear. Occasionally, sudden pressure changes can cause your eardrum to become perforated. As well as when flying, this could happen when you are scuba diving or driving at high altitudes.
This occurs because there is a big difference between the air pressure outside the ear and the pressure inside the middle ear.

Great link.

Now please show where it states that you should not take a child on a plane if they have a cold/congestion. Yes perforated eardrums CAN happen but so can deep vein thrombosis

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/travelhealth/Pages/PreventingDVT.aspx

Does not mean everyone will cancel travel plans because of what MIGHT happen!:rolleyes:

dj jarvis · 12-07-2013 4:06pm

dear god not this topic AGAIN :mad:

Once the person flying has paid for the seats , they can travel with who they want , The following have no issue with it IAA - the airlines - the flight crew , ground staff - travel agents - hotel staff - ect ect

Me thinks its the self centered adults who cant suck it up if a child is crying on a plane. its annoying for sure - but such is life - get over it FFS

I travel 3 times a year ( 4 flights each trip, so 12 flights ) with a 2 year old and a 5 year old , NEVER a seconds problem with them , its about how you manage them - if a child is acting up its normally the stupid parents fault.

but people want to ban kids from flights??? pathetic

REALLY must be a slow news day - its a lot of posters on boards who need to grow up - not the kids :rolleyes:

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 4:15pm

bumper234 wrote: »

Great link.

Now please show where it states that you should not take a child on a plane if they have a cold/congestion. Yes perforated eardrums CAN happen but so can deep vein thrombosis

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/travelhealth/Pages/PreventingDVT.aspx

Does not mean everyone will cancel travel plans because of what MIGHT happen!:rolleyes:

I can believe you don't know about this ? Its really pretty common:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-children/1341801-flying-toddler-ear-infection.html

I flew once with an ear infection/fluid in ear. My eardrum ruptured. The pain was the worst you can imagine. It took months to heal. I lost the lower range of my hearing for a decade. My ENT said flying with any type of ear infection puts you at risk for a ruptured eardrum and hearing loss.

Your child will be miserable and so will you as well as the other passengers. This will be horrible. I would never do it unless it was an emergency that you had to be somewhere.

I did this once when I flew with an ear infection. I didn't realize I had it and I was working the flight. I felt it on take-off so I made sure that I had the Ibuprofen and some Sudefed going before landing. I did okay but it wasn't fun and I do know people who busted their ear drums so I consider myself veeeeeery lucky!

http://www.mummypages.ie/my-child-has-an-ear-infection-is-it-safe-to-fly

An acute or bulging ear infection can cause your child a lot of pain during the flight, particularly during takeoff or landing. In extreme cases, it may even cause your child’s eardrums to burst, which may result in long-term hearing trouble.

Also it happened to me, my hearing in one ear was strange for a really long time until it healed up completely.

So as I said if the Child seems congested then they shouldn't be allowed fly without a GPs letter. The Parents Judgement may be clouded due to spending X amount of money on a Holiday.

Also the child has no choice.

At the very best it is not going to be comfortable to fly at all.

Believe me, if it happened to you, you would never want it to happen again, I've come off a motorbike at 60mph, had my hand cut open by a serated blade and nothing beats the agony of having pressure you cannot get rid of in your ears.

Edit: I fly quite a lot... worst I've ever seen was a guy that had mucus coming out from under his eyes.

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 4:22pm

keithclancy wrote: »

I can believe you don't know about this ? Its really pretty common:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-children/1341801-flying-toddler-ear-infection.html

http://www.mummypages.ie/my-child-has-an-ear-infection-is-it-safe-to-fly

Also it happened to me, my hearing in one ear was strange for a really long time until it healed up completely.

So as I said if the Child seems congested then they shouldn't be allowed fly without a GPs letter. The Parents Judgement may be clouded due to spending X amount of money on a Holiday.

Also the child has no choice.

At the very best it is not going to be comfortable to fly at all.

Believe me, if it happened to you, you would never want it to happen again, I've come off a motorbike at 60mph, had my hand cut open by a serated blade and nothing beats the agony of having pressure you cannot get rid of in your ears.

Edit: I fly quite a lot... worst I've ever seen was a guy that had mucus coming out from under his eyes.

So what do you suggest? We have gestapo like doctors at security checking every child? Again what about adults? Should they be allowed travel? I fly minimum once a week (2 flights) for over 10 years and i have never seen anyones eardrum perforate while in flight or heard of it so it must be a pretty rare thing. Also as i listed before a crying baby is the least nasty or annoying thing i have witnessed on a plane. I say let kids fly but vet the adults at check in.

Freddy Smelly · 12-07-2013 4:23pm

keithclancy wrote: »

In Ireland I've seen the complete polar opposite, with people going off to Mediterranean destinations with babies a few months old.

Why is this the case ?

cos ireland is a fuppin ripoff to holiday in. overpriced hotels / b&b's, overpriced restaurants, and more of the same sh!te that you would get at home

its cheaper to go somewhere else.

homerjay2005 · 12-07-2013 4:25pm

Old and grey wrote: »

Why not? families are allowed holiday too you know!

well if you are having kids, i think you can wait a year or two without a holiday or for example those who are lucky enough to have their parents to help out, can use them if possible.

i certainly would not want to take a new born baby on a flight anyway and wouldnt do so until they are 2 years old. taking a baby on holidays kinda defeats the purpose of a holiday anyway IMO.

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 4:38pm

bumper234 wrote: »

So what do you suggest? We have gestapo like doctors at security checking every child? Again what about adults? Should they be allowed travel? I fly minimum once a week (2 flights) for over 10 years and i have never seen anyones eardrum perforate while in flight or heard of it so it must be a pretty rare thing. Also as i listed before a crying baby is the least nasty or annoying thing i have witnessed on a plane. I say let kids fly but vet the adults at check in.

At the very least I would hope the parents would bring their baby to the GP to get checked out first.

I would also hope that the parents would take the advice of the GP rather than just chance it and go anyway.

Just a point to note that if you have a visible medical condition e.g. you look pale, you are breathing strangely or just look generally ill, even drunk they will call a staff doctor at for the Airport and have you checked out to see if you are fit to fly. I've seen this happen a few times at Schiphol, once on a KLM Flight and another on a BMI Flight (one guys blood sugar was low, the other one had stitches on his head) both were denied boarding for that flight.

BTW most won't know if their eardrum has been perforated until afterwards, actually a good indication is that the pain goes away, you just feel a bit of fluid coming out your ear.

Two other people I know had the same thing happen,

John_Rambo · 12-07-2013 4:49pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Two other people I know had the same thing happen,

I know seventeen thousand, four hundred and eighty two people that it didn't happen to.

Reindeer · 12-07-2013 4:55pm

Children should be sent standard post. I can see an argument for next day or better on international posts, though.

OldNotWIse · 12-07-2013 5:09pm

Frank Black wrote: »

What about being tortured, raped and then murdered?

Sounds like we have a First World Problem Drama Queen here.

you bring torture, rape and murder into a discussion about children on flights...and then accuse another poster of being a drama queen? lmao

jmayo · 12-07-2013 5:36pm

homerjay2005 wrote: »

well if you are having kids, i think you can wait a year or two without a holiday or for example those who are lucky enough to have their parents to help out, can use them if possible.

Yeah why the fook would parents of young children want a holiday.
And I bet you would also reckon they shouldn't bother going out to restaurants either. :rolleyes:
Probably best they should remain at home and maybe even only venture out when kids are old enough to drive lest they inconvenience all those whose pensions the kids will be supplementing in years to come.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i certainly would not want to take a new born baby on a flight anyway and wouldnt do so until they are 2 years old. taking a baby on holidays kinda defeats the purpose of a holiday anyway IMO.

You do know most families have multiple kids and they are usually different ages.
Using your logic familes shouldn't go on holidays for years.

I see your location is Dublin/Kerry.
Perhaps you should go around telling the Kerry people involved in tourism that they should tell families with young children not to bother turning up as it is a waste of time.
Or is it just foriegn holidays that might involve an aircraft that might have you on board ?

I would love to see you announcing such ideas to all the Spanish involved in tourist industry.
Somehow I bet some of them (bars excluded) would rather the families with young kids than the pis*heads who just want to fight.

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 5:38pm

keithclancy wrote: »

At the very least I would hope the parents would bring their baby to the GP to get checked out first.

I would also hope that the parents would take the advice of the GP rather than just chance it and go anyway.

Just a point to note that if you have a visible medical condition e.g. you look pale, you are breathing strangely or just look generally ill, even drunk they will call a staff doctor at for the Airport and have you checked out to see if you are fit to fly. I've seen this happen a few times at Schiphol, once on a KLM Flight and another on a BMI Flight (one guys blood sugar was low, the other one had stitches on his head) both were denied boarding for that flight.

BTW most won't know if their eardrum has been perforated until afterwards, actually a good indication is that the pain goes away, you just feel a bit of fluid coming out your ear.

Two other people I know had the same thing happen,

I have been on over 1000 flights in 10 years i work with airline pilots who's careers span over 30 years and none of us have ever heard of what you posted here happening but you know multitudes of people who it has happened to. I guess your'e just an unlucky guy

dj jarvis · 12-07-2013 5:51pm

bumper234 wrote: »

I have been on over 1000 flights in 10 years i work with airline pilots who's careers span over 30 years and none of us have ever heard of what you posted here happening but you know multitudes of people who it has happened to. I guess your'e just an unlucky guy

ditto - i fly a lot and have never come across this either - im sure it happens , but its not a common thing at all

i have seen people been asked to leave a plane or being refused flight for various reasons - and they were ALL adults , never adults with children , a person with kids is very unlikely to be drunk and try open the door in flight or start a fire :eek:

it boils down to noise - babies crying - they cry for 3 reasons when under 1
being hungry - being tired or full nappies
all 3 can be remedied - they tend not to cry for long - it is unusual for a child to cry for the entire flight

so basically this thread stems from ADULTS not being able to suck up the slight annoyance of a child crying for a short amount of time
well some advice - earplugs or headphones and stop fecking whinging

TBH i would rather a plane full of kids than sit with a plane full of 20 somethings going on holiday

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 6:01pm

bumper234 wrote: »

I have been on over 1000 flights in 10 years i work with airline pilots who's careers span over 30 years and none of us have ever heard of what you posted here happening but you know multitudes of people who it has happened to. I guess your'e just an unlucky guy

Really .. ?

I love when people that work in Recruitment Companies think they are best buddies with their source of income

Quick whip round too ... is it a big room ?

Do what you like ... but you think then its fine to just ignore symptoms and fly anyway ?

What is wrong with the approach of getting them checked out by a GP First ?

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 6:03pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Really .. ?

I love when people that work in Recruitment Companies think they are best buddies with their source of income

I actually work for the Irish Aviation Authority but don't let facts get in the way of your whinging or posting of inaccurate "facts".

John_Rambo · 12-07-2013 6:04pm

Are you telling porkys Keith?

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 6:04pm

bumper234 wrote: »

I actually work for the Irish Aviation Authority but don't let facts get in the way of your whinging or posting of inaccurate "facts".

Thought you worked for a recruitment company for 3 years?

Mr. G · 12-07-2013 6:06pm

I don't mind once they don't annoy me or make noise. I generally don't mind them at all, don't see why they should be banned from flights to be honest.

Its not just babies that annoy me on a flight believe me!!

bumper234 · 12-07-2013 6:08pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Thought you worked for a recruitment company for 3 years?

I work for the IAA as a consultant through Morgan and Mckinley for the last three years previous to that i worked directly for the IAA at the ATC in cloughran. Any other personal questions you would like answered or should we get back on topic?

keithclancy · 12-07-2013 6:22pm

bumper234 wrote: »

I work for the IAA as a consultant through Morgan and Mckinley for the last three years previous to that i worked directly for the IAA at the ATC in cloughran. Any other personal questions you would like answered or should we get back on topic?

Well if you and your colleagues are interested its called a Barotrauma, you do a whole section on it when qualifying for Diving.

Here's a link on it if you are interested:

http://pennstatehershey.adam.com/content.aspx?productId=117&pid=1&gid=001064

Basically anything that causes a pressure change such as flying, diving and driving up high mountains.

Happens occasionally when diving also when people have difficulty equalising when coming back up.

Symptoms (in my case) after it happened (Flight from Amsterdam - Cork) and ruptured was a whooshing noise that would happen when I started to talk. It would randomly come and go, since 2008 and luckily I haven't had a problem.

What exactly would you say is wrong with the approach of bringing your baby to your GP to get checked before hand ?

3rdDegree · 12-07-2013 6:33pm

:mad:It's amazing how emotive this topic can get!

But I must admit that this does my head in completely! :mad:

I was on a flight once to a sun holiday and had the bad luck to be seated beside a "howya" woman and her toddler daughter (I'd say about 3 yo). The moment the plane started to taxi, she wanted a drink. When she couldn't get it, we had the first tantrum. As soon as as that died down, she was "asked" to put up the table, but she didn't want to do that either. Another absolutely nuclear tantrum! :mad: Finally, she decided she needed to get out of her seat and when told she "couldn't because it wasn't safe, love". Again, she completely lost it. And bad an all as she was, the child was worse. My head was fcuking wrecked by the time we landed. :mad:

Do you think its fair parents bring young babies on flights for a holiday ?

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