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Government agreement: Free-To-Air RTE in NI, BBC in RoI on DTT platform

  • 01-02-2010 4:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Moriarty


    Interesting memorandum of understanding has just been signed between the UK and Irish governments:

    http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/MoU-DCMS-DCENR.pdf
    ...

    Co-operation

    In light of this, the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the Government of Ireland will cooperate to help ensure:

    a)A smooth transition to digital terrestrial television and the switch-off of analogue services on the island of Ireland.

    b)The widespread availability on the DTT platform of TG4 in Northern Ireland.

    c)That arrangements are made to facilitate the widespread availability on the DTT platforms of BBC services in Ireland and of RTE services in Northern Ireland.

    d)That public information campaigns about digital transition in both jurisdictions are coordinated in both delivery and content where it is mutually decided that suitable overlaps and sharing of information will assist the viewers. These campaigns should include information on the changes in overspill services in Ireland once the analogue signal is switched off.

    e)Arrangements are put in place to facilitate information sharing to allow for the development of digital terrestrial reception equipment which is compatible with the technical standards

    f)That the possibilities are explored regarding the reciprocal sharing in both jurisdictions of public service broadcasting digital radio services. applied in both jurisdictions.

    ...

    So, BBC will be available free-to-air over the DTT platform once it's deployed down here in the republic, with reciprocal arrangements for RTE in the north. Interesting, interesting, interesting..


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Fintan Drury will get a shock when he reads that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Did they actually say 'free' though - isn't there lot's of Sir Humphrey vagueness like talking about making things available without directly addressing the issue of whether it will need to be paid for or not?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I think I know who is getting the better part of that deal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    mike65 wrote: »
    I think I know who is getting the better part of that deal.

    I'm not so sure what the BBC have to gain out of the matter, which I assume is what you mean as RTE have much greater coverage in NI than the other way around. If the beeb have to pay RTÉNL carriage costs, then I think it's another customer to pay off the DTT rollout bill. I expect the consequences of this will be more convoluted than my thoughts suggest however:)

    Edit: the wording of the agreement does seem to indicate that the broadcasts would be free, as the only financial matters in the MoU do seem to be direct transfer payments for broadcasting such channels. The fact that the agreement specifically mentions space being reserved on PSB muxes on both sides of the border would make me hopeful of this.

    Still, there's no explicit declaration that it will be free to air. I don't know how such a PSB mux can be arranged in NI however... It would take a lot of creative multiplex bookeeping and things like the Sheriff's Mountain/Holywell Hill transmitters not broadcasting the same channels twice etc. etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    If BBC 1 and 2 NI are available on pay TV in ROI, then we should assume that One Vision will pay carriage cost for BBC, while RTÉ and TG4 will pay for their carriage in the north. If the BBC own the NI network then the BBC will possible gain more out of this than RTÉ. Unless they plan to put BBC on SaorView.

    If they do end up on SaorView many people in ROI won't be going to sign up for One Vision anytime soon, I know I would be happy with just RTÉ 1, 2, TV3, TG4, BBC 1 and 2.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭craoltoir


    The wording of the statement indicates that the provision of public service television in each jurisdiction will be provided on a FTA basis in the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Indicated, but not explicitly said, by my reading of it. I'd love to be corrected though:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Indicated, but not explicitly said, by my reading of it. I'd love to be corrected though:D

    I agree it doesn't explicitly state it.
    That arrangements are made to facilitate the widespread availability on the DTT platforms of BBC services in Ireland and of RTE services in Northern Ireland.

    They could be happy with Pay TV provisions on both sides of the boarder.

    I give it about 5 years, 2 years for One Vision to begin and 3 years to see them close their pay tv operation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    Indicated, but not explicitly said, by my reading of it. I'd love to be corrected though:D

    Maybe not explicit in the document, but that seems to be the UK & Irish Governments understanding of it.

    http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_library/media_releases/6613.aspx

    "The Memorandum commits the two Governments to facilitating the widespread availability of RTE services in Northern Ireland and BBC services in Ireland on a free-to-air basis."

    The same statement is also on the Department of Communications Web site.
    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Boost+for+Irish+Language+Broadcasting.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    Warm words but a) how's it going to be paid for b) UTV will object in the courts b) where's the spectrum coming from and d) they'll have to use T2 in Northern Ireland with new spectrum. I mentioned this in the other thread and the Arqiva report on NI spectrum availability. An incoming Conservative Government in the UK will probably slash vanity public service project like this proposal. This is going to get interesting...

    BBC take:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8492102.stm


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  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MarkK


    Indeed, there could be a single "RTE North" channel with a mix of RTE1 and RTE2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    RT&#201 wrote: »
    Ryan signs TG4 agreement with Britsh govt

    Minister for Communications Eamon Ryan has signed an agreement with the British government to ensure the continuing widespread availability of TG4 in Northern Ireland following the switchover from analogue to digital TV services, which is planned there for 2012.

    The agreement commits the two governments to facilitating RTÉ services in Northern Ireland and BBC services in the Republic of Ireland on a free-to-air basis.

    The minister said the agreement provided for an all-island approach to the development of digital television services in Ireland.

    He said: 'At a time when there's a lot of attention on North-South negotiations, it's important for people to be able to access culture, sports, news and know what's happening North and South.'

    'Having the BBC available in the South gives us a clear link with what politicians in the North are doing.

    'Having TG4 and RTÉ available in the North is equally important so we have a common understanding on the island of what we have as a common culture.'

    Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward said it underlined the British government's commitment to the development of the Irish language in Northern Ireland.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/communications.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    MarkK wrote: »
    Indeed, there could be a single "RTE North" channel with a mix of RTE1 and RTE2.

    I certainly wouldn't want a mix of both as you would lose out. Better to have both separately with full content as most people in NI have at present. What's the problem with RTE1and 2 on DTT in NI apart from lack of space on transmitters?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I certainly wouldn't want a mix of both as you would lose out. Better to have both separately with full content as most people in NI have at present. What's the problem with RTE1and 2 on DTT in NI apart from lack of space on transmitters?

    Rights issues.

    UTV would worry that advertising revenue would end up in the hands of RTÉ remember for many years UTV had good revenues coming from the South, they wouldn't like it working the other way.

    However the rights issues could be sorted out by blocking content or replacing content. (However UTV would still have an issue with Ad Rev)

    E.G. When EastEnders goes out on RTÉ they could replace it with RTÉ Ulster News or BBC Newsline and in the Republic the BBC could replace it with RTÉ News or BBC Newsline ROI.

    Note that neither UTV or TV3 where mentioned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    That sounds promising. Seems like I could send of an email to Minister Ryan congratulating him on implementing a tract of Green Policy. Seems like this might be an indicator that DTT is gathering steam now


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Elmo wrote: »
    Rights issues.

    UTV would worry that advertising revenue would end up in the hands of RTÉ remember for many years UTV had good revenues coming from the South, they wouldn't like it working the other way.

    However the rights issues could be sorted out by blocking content or replacing content. (However UTV would still have an issue with Ad Rev)

    E.G. When EastEnders goes out on RTÉ they could replace it with RTÉ Ulster News or BBC Newsline and in the Republic the BBC could replace it with RTÉ News or BBC Newsline ROI.

    Note that neither UTV or TV3 where mentioned.

    Answer then is for strong high gain aerials to pick up signals from across the border and purchase MPEG 4 set top boxes or TV's with MPEG4 and MPEG 2. I detest the way some content on RTE via Sky is blocked out due to rights issues. Even 'Dukes of Hazzard' is blocked out on TG4. AFAIK this also happens on cable here in NI. So glad I receive RTE via an aerial. Any idea if ROI DTT signal will be juiced up when its fully operational?


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    I guess by not having UTV and TV3 mentioned, it shows that as far as most are concerned these channels hold no real public service value. Eventhough UTV produces more local programmes than the rest of the network, it is essentially a commercial broadcaster.

    RTE are already sellingt their advertising on the basis that they are available terrestrially, via cable and digital sat (as part of a subscription) anyway.

    A significant move here, which will damage any potential pay dtt operation. The whole saorview package seems to be coming together..

    I'd guess BBC1/2 could easily be put onto the RTE NL mux. With spare capacity (using digital dividend frequencies) on the main sites in NI for RTE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    MarkK wrote: »
    Indeed, there could be a single "RTE North" channel with a mix of RTE1 and RTE2.

    Maybe there will be BBC Ireland as sometime some program rights maybe for UK only and Eire could get a blank screen like how RTE on Sky for viewers in NI get blank screen when a right to show in NI is not allow...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    Answer then is for strong high gain aerials to pick up signals from across the border and purchase MPEG 4 set top boxes or TV's with MPEG4 and MPEG 2. I detest the way some content on RTE via Sky is blocked out due to rights issues. Even 'Dukes of Hazzard' is blocked out on TG4. AFAIK this also happens on cable here in NI. So glad I receive RTE via an aerial. Any idea if ROI DTT signal will be juiced up when its fully operational?

    Detest all you want but that's the reality of programme rights. Programmes from the UK are blocked here too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    RTÉ Six-One News report of the signing of the agreement.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/6news_av.html?2692549,null,230


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    Rights issues.


    E.G. When EastEnders goes out on RTÉ they could replace it with RTÉ Ulster News or BBC Newsline and in the Republic the BBC could replace it with RTÉ News or BBC Newsline ROI.

    Note that neither UTV or TV3 where mentioned.


    If BBC is available in Ireland FTA which is clearly what is meant, then RTE would cease to take Eastenders, and other BBC programmes for simultaneous broadcast. They would have to replace it with their own or other bought in programmes. If RTE had an HD channel, they could broadcast HD versions (if available) of BBC programmes, perhaps. Rights issues would not apply, since BBC do not pay seperate rights for Wales or Scotland, or even NI.

    Great news:), sounds like DTT is ready to go, with ASO in 2012, as pointed to already.

    Where are OneVision?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    mrdtv2010 wrote: »
    Warm words but a) how's it going to be paid for b) UTV will object in the courts b) where's the spectrum coming from and d) they'll have to use T2 in Northern Ireland with new spectrum. I mentioned this in the other thread and the Arqiva report on NI spectrum availability. An incoming Conservative Government in the UK will probably slash vanity public service project like this proposal. This is going to get interesting...

    BBC take:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8492102.stm

    What has DVB-T2 got to do with this? BBC will be available on Saorview according to my reading of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    slegs wrote: »
    What has DVB-T2 got to do with this? BBC will be available on Saorview according to my reading of this.

    Agreed Slegs, to any "man in the street" reading what both ministers said yesterday, we will see BBC 1 NI, BBC2 NI definitely on FTA DTT mux in ROI, and possibly BBC 3, BBC4 and BBC News aswell, with RTE1,RTE2 and TG4 on FTA mux in NI. Also, they even mentioned that we could well see BBC Radio's 1-4,( BBC Radio Five Live could be a problem due to sports rights ) and BBC Radio Ulster on DAB in ROI with the Rte/RnaG/Lyric etc being on DAB in NI. It's looks like TV3/UTV/Channel4 etc will have to fight it out in the commercial world ( Onevision come in please ? )
    However, what "the man in the street" reads and what the complicated world of broadcasting and politics actually produces may well be something else entirely, but it does look good at the moment.
    A fta mux here, carrying RTE1,RTE2,TV3,TG4,3E,BBC1,BBC2,RTE News and possibly some more, in crystal clear digital, widescreen etc would help get DTT off to a flying start in ROI.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭mrdtv2010


    slegs wrote: »
    What has DVB-T2 got to do with this? BBC will be available on Saorview according to my reading of this.

    I do wish you would read the post: I was referring to NI as is explicitly clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    galtee boy wrote: »
    Agreed Slegs, to any "man in the street" reading what both ministers said yesterday, we will see BBC 1 NI, BBC2 NI definitely on FTA DTT mux in ROI, and possibly BBC 3, BBC4 and BBC News aswell, with RTE1,RTE2 and TG4 on FTA mux in NI. Also, they even mentioned that we could well see BBC Radio's 1-4,( BBC Radio Five Live could be a problem due to sports rights ) and BBC Radio Ulster on DAB in ROI with the Rte/RnaG/Lyric etc being on DAB in NI. It's looks like TV3/UTV/Channel4 etc will have to fight it out in the commercial world ( Onevision come in please ? )
    However, what "the man in the street" reads and what the complicated world of broadcasting and politics actually produces may well be something else entirely, but it does look good at the moment.
    A fta mux here, carrying RTE1,RTE2,TV3,TG4,3E,BBC1,BBC2,RTE News and possibly some more, in crystal clear digital, widescreen etc would help get DTT off to a flying start in ROI.:)


    The agreement for BBC1 and BBC2 NI to be carried on DTT in the ROI would be with BBC Worldwide, so I doubt any other channels would be included, though yes, it's a nice thought. I see BBC1 and BBC2 NI are now listed further up the listings on RTE's DTT Text Service too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    If BBC is available in Ireland FTA which is clearly what is meant, then RTE would cease to take Eastenders, and other BBC programmes for simultaneous broadcast. They would have to replace it with their own or other bought in programmes. If RTE had an HD channel, they could broadcast HD versions (if available) of BBC programmes, perhaps. Rights issues would not apply, since BBC do not pay seperate rights for Wales or Scotland, or even NI.

    Why would RTÉ want to get rid of one of its biggest draws?
    SRB wrote: »
    I see BBC1 and BBC2 NI are now listed further up the listings on RTE's DTT Text Service too.

    How do you mean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    mrdtv2010 wrote: »
    I do wish you would read the post: I was referring to NI as is explicitly clear.

    I did read it and still cant see any relevance to the topic.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    Why would RTÉ want to get rid of one of its biggest draws? [ Eastenders ]



    Not a lot of point broadcasting it with adverts in competition with the same thing on a different channel at the same time without adverts. They could show it at a different time I suppose, but not much point of that either.

    Would BBC News be included?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    slegs wrote: »
    What has DVB-T2 got to do with this? BBC will be available on Saorview according to my reading of this.


    The memorandum includes the point that STB would have to be compatible, which can only mean DVD-T2 and MPEG4. So if we have to have T2 boxes, we may as well use the T2 transmitters. [This for after ASO in 2012]

    SIZE=1][I]My reading[/I][/SIZE


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    The memorandum includes the point that STB would have to be compatible, which can only mean DVD-T2 and MPEG4. So if we have to have T2 boxes, we may as well use the T2 transmitters. [This for after ASO in 2012]

    SIZE=1][I]My reading[/I][/SIZE

    Will that definitely be the case in NI. Are all Freeview channels in the north going DVB-T2? Would be nothing technically stopping Freeview in the north retransmitting in MPEG2.


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