"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

Tarabuses · 13-01-2012 3:11pm

Draupnir wrote: »

To answer your question, coincidentally I only started commuting on the LUAS daily in the first week of December due to an office relocation.

Does the LUAS go to Conclusion City? I'll see you there!

It's not on the Green Line

markpb · 13-01-2012 3:13pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

While a lot of their info may be right, I'd be curious where they are getting that.

Talking to people in the NTA coordinating the project presumably.

Carawaystick · 13-01-2012 11:10pm

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/26.70.html#subj9

/OT when I'm writing a post, I can't see the post numbers, is this the same for everyone?

Has anyone any idea why the online topup takes so long? considering normal credit card transactions go through immediately?

Re. tagging of busses? who decided it'd take too long to tag off? If enough tag off validators were placed in the corridor between the stairs and the doors, it should work. Considering the increase in boarding times by no driver interaction.

BenShermin · 14-01-2012 12:09am

Noticed this last year on trams in Flanders in Belgium. I've absolutely no idea what the numbers are for but it dawned on me today that a validator like this could be the solution for the problems with Leap on Dublin Bus.

I assume the paper ticket validator under the Leap validator on Dublin Bus will be a thing of the past soon, so why not use this extra space to install a machine like the one above with numbers on it that links into the Leap validator above. Passengers can swipe their Leap and then press the button underneath that corresponds to the amount of stages they're travelling thus completely removing driver interaction.

Of course such a system would work easier under a zonal system!!

NickDrake · 14-01-2012 12:15am

the depost thing is a myth. I had 1 euro on my card. I had not touched my deposit. I went to get the Dart after work and it said no funds.

So much for having the deposit.

dublinman1990 · 14-01-2012 2:35am

NickDrake wrote: »

the depost thing is a myth. I had 1 euro on my card. I had not touched my deposit. I went to get the Dart after work and it said no funds.

So much for having the deposit.

It is not expected that the leap card hasn't got the deposit counted on the card. The deposit I'll say is probably spent on administration, wages and probably advertising.

The advertising on the leap card is very wasteful because their website is not displayed properly due to a lack of the address showing up in your computer domain.

Supposedly, the fare you had on the card, was a student, child, or an adult?

robd · 14-01-2012 10:05am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Has anyone any idea why the online topup takes so long? considering normal credit card transactions go through immediately?

Re. tagging of busses? who decided it'd take too long to tag off? If enough tag off validators were placed in the corridor between the stairs and the doors, it should work. Considering the increase in boarding times by no driver interaction.

For about the 100th time the card and validators are offline. The validators need to be informed of the topup which they are overnight. This is required cause of requirement for high speed transaction. This is how smart card systems work internationally.

Dublin Bus decided I guess. I suspect they don't want to put a line of tag-off validators there because people could tag on and then tag off quickly, thus underpaying for their journey. Dublin Bus seem to have a policy of rarely doing fare checks these days.

Also I don't think validator is aware of location at the moment. Certainly ticket machine is not and requires driver to update stages manually, which they often do not do. Would require a solution where realtime location system is fed to ticketing/validating solution.

They certainly need to try harder to come up with a passenger driven solution though.

robd · 14-01-2012 10:07am

BenShermin wrote: »

Dublin Bus generally don't trust their customers much. Requiring user to select correct fare would likely not be accepted for fear of passengers underpaying.

Other than that, looks like a good idea.

monument · 14-01-2012 10:52am

robd wrote: »

Dublin Bus decided I guess. I suspect they don't want to put a line of tag-off validators there because people could tag on and then tag off quickly, thus underpaying for their journey. Dublin Bus seem to have a policy of rarely doing fare checks these days.

Also I don't think validator is aware of location at the moment. Certainly ticket machine is not and requires driver to update stages manually, which they often do not do. Would require a solution where realtime location system is fed to ticketing/validating solution.

They certainly need to try harder to come up with a passenger driven solution though.

The latter sounds more likely to be the problem and can be solved by a time-based approach (like Travel 90).

The former (ie tag on and off quickly) isn't really an excuse, as even if there was a mid or back door validator, 90% of passengers still would be sitting/standing away from it. You have a time delay from when you tag on to when you can tag off (like Luas etc) and you still need some ticket inspectors (who are stil around, just very targeted).

AlekSmart · 14-01-2012 12:03pm

monument wrote: »

The latter sounds more likely to be the problem and can be solved by a time-based approach (like Travel 90).

The former (ie tag on and off quickly) isn't really an excuse, as even if there was a mid or back door validator, 90% of passengers still would be sitting/standing away from it. You have a time delay from when you tag on to when you can tag off (like Luas etc) and you still need some ticket inspectors (who are stil around, just very targeted).

Or....incredibly enough,let the NTA,ITIB,RPA and the assembled cast of hugely qualified and well renumerated Public Transport Professionals and Administrators recognize the actual accepted level of FLAT FARE....€2.

It's the denomination almost all of my mid journey (€1.40-€1.90) pasengers are dropping in,not seeking and in some cases telling me don't bother with the change...

Thats the reality of platform life now.....€2 is an acceptable level of charge for a Flat Fare.

Make it so.

The current nonsense is an antedeluvian mess,which Dublin Bus adheres to as it has to maintain it's cash flow,something I fear will rebound badly as people get fed up with all the faffing about at the front.

It's incredible that LeapCard was allowed to be developed as a standalone entity whilst the basic operational methdologies were allowed to develop seperately like branches on a wild bush.

The mistakes were made 12 years ago...they were recognized then,flagged at various points en-route and are more than apparent now as the thing is wheeled about the mean-streets.

If ever the NTA needed a motto it should be.......

KEEP IT SIMPLE,STUPID.......(KISS)

Victor · 14-01-2012 12:44pm

NickDrake wrote: »

the depost thing is a myth. I had 1 euro on my card. I had not touched my deposit. I went to get the Dart after work and it said no funds.

So much for having the deposit.

Check your transaction history on www.leapcard.ie - you will need to register the card. If there is definitely a problem, talk to customer care.

www.leapcard.ie

Email
customer.care@leapcard.ie
Please ensure that you include your Leap Card number and contact details in your email to help us respond to your query.

Phone
1850 824 824

Monday to Friday 7am to 7pm
Saturday and Bank Holidays 9am to 3pm
Closed Sundays, Christmas Day, St. Stephens Day and New Year’s Day

Post
Leap Card Customer Care
PO BOX 12119
Dublin 24

BenShermin wrote: »

http://images112.fotki.com/v189/photos/0/1055340/8649700/2010POArt10519-vi.jpg

Noticed this last year on trams in Flanders in Belgium. I've absolutely no idea what the numbers are for but it dawned on me today that a validator like this could be the solution for the problems with Leap on Dublin Bus.

I assume the paper ticket validator under the Leap validator on Dublin Bus will be a thing of the past soon, so why not use this extra space to install a machine like the one above with numbers on it that links into the Leap validator above. Passengers can swipe their Leap and then press the button underneath that corresponds to the amount of stages they're travelling thus completely removing driver interaction.

Of course such a system would work easier under a zonal system!!

I imagine the 1-10 relates to the number of stops or zones that you are going.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

It is not expected that the leap card hasn't got the deposit counted on the card. The deposit I'll say is probably spent on administration, wages and probably advertising.

No it isn't, because hte customer can spend it at any time. The costs of hte system are carried by the NTA and the operators.

The advertising on the leap card is very wasteful because their website is not displayed properly due to a lack of the address showing up in your computer domain.

This seems to have been fixed.

n97 mini · 14-01-2012 1:06pm

Victor wrote: »

This seems to have been fixed.

Their SSL Certificate is for www.leapcard.ie and not leapcard.ie (silly, amateur mistake for whoever registered it).

Some browsers still baulk at leapcard.ie because of this, namely Chrome.

Stevek101 · 14-01-2012 1:17pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Their SSL Certificate is for www.leapcard.ie and not leapcard.ie (silly, amateur mistake for whoever registered it).

Some browsers still baulk at leapcard.ie because of this, namely Chrome.

Not for the last few days.

n97 mini · 14-01-2012 1:32pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

Not for the last few days.

Your browser is probably caching your choice to accept.

Try https://leapcard.ie

Now that I check it I see that IE also baulks, as does FF.

robd · 14-01-2012 1:54pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Your browser is probably caching your choice to accept.

Try https://leapcard.ie

You're missing the point.

leapcard.ie redirects to https://www.leapcard.ie now

The adverts are for leapcard.ie so thats OK.

n97 mini · 14-01-2012 2:07pm

robd wrote: »

You're missing the point.

leapcard.ie redirects to https://www.leapcard.ie now

No. It's actually you that's missing the point!

Go to leapcard.ie in Chrome and you will get the above error. The redirect is using the wrong SSL cert, and thus Chrome will not allow it to happen.

Victor · 14-01-2012 2:11pm

n97 mini wrote: »

No. It's actually you that's missing the point!

Go to leapcard.ie in Chrome and you will get the above error. The redirect is using the wrong SSL cert, and thus Chrome will not allow it to happen.

I just used Chrome and its seem to happily go from leapcard.ie to https://www.leapcard.ie/

Stevek101 · 14-01-2012 2:23pm

I don't think anyone will put the https in, frankly you're being ridiculous now. leapcard.ie does the job perfectly

n97 mini · 14-01-2012 2:31pm

Victor wrote: »

I just used Chrome and its seem to happily go from leapcard.ie to https://www.leapcard.ie/

Have you used it before on leapcard.ie and ever clicked Proceed? Chrome will remember that choice.

Stevek101 wrote:

I don't think anyone will put the https in, frankly you're being ridiculous now.

That was for demonstration purposes, to show that the cert does not include leapcard.ie.

Whether someone puts in https or not is irrelevant, if the cert is wrong it's wrong.

Jesus Wept · 14-01-2012 4:32pm

Would be useful if you could set up an email alert on the website when your credit hit a certain amount.

goingnowhere · 14-01-2012 6:07pm

NickDrake wrote: »

the depost thing is a myth. I had 1 euro on my card. I had not touched my deposit. I went to get the Dart after work and it said no funds.

So much for having the deposit.

When you hit a situation where your balance is negative the message will be "Purchase Needed"

The deposit works fine for me, numerous times I've brought the card into negative balance

With only 1 exception it is always possible to make a journey provided you have at least 1 cent credit balance. You need to have a minimum balance of €1.01 to use the 747 bus.

Irish Steve · 14-01-2012 8:44pm

Not read the entire thread, for the simple reason that once again, after reading a few messages at the beginning of the thread, and then going digging on the LEAP site, i've discovered that relevant eejits have managed to produce a half baked screw up of a system that's a waste of time to me, because Ashbourne is served by BE, and BE is conspicuous by the total non mention of it on the leap web site.

The other issue is that for some stupid reason, it appears that zoning has not been implemented in a way that makes the use of the card easy. In London, and Amsterdam, it's easy, and works. Amsterdam, you board, and select the zone of your destination, and you then have a time period for which you can travel on whatever you want within the number of zones selected. London is similar, and here, we seem to have a concept that ignores that, and requires regular clocking on and off the system

Trust Ireland to come up with the most complex and incomplete system imagineable. Then again, why are BE still running "commuter" services in Dublin, by now, they should have been merged into DB, for all sorts of reasons, the main one being to make it a lot easier to manage the entire operation.

I despair of the people that supposedly consult with the public. they hold meetings about Motorway routes and junctions, or bus routes, or planning, or whatever, and at the end of the supposed consultation period, they go ahead with the exact plan they always had in place, regardless of the feedback and suggestions or objections from the people that will be using or affected by the plans.

I'm not allowed to use the language that's appropriate to describle the incompetence of the way this project has been implemented, it's cumbersome, expensive, and doesn't cover the basics. It should have been set up to cover everything inside the area of the DB service, and if that meant that BE services to those places and others inside the circle had to be moved, then that should have been done,

Are BE operating for the benefit of the travelling public, or to keep extra people employed in duplicating significant numbers of things that could be managed by DB. It's not as if they are even separately owned, the whole darn mess is owned by CIE, and that's where the problem lies, there are too many controlling and vested interests that prevent the provision of a competent and appropriate service to the people that it is supposed to.

I am so angry right now, it's not even funny, yet again, we've been sold down the river by self serving interests that do not care about the people they are supposed to be serving.

dublinman1990 · 14-01-2012 10:46pm

Victor wrote: »

I just used Chrome and its seem to happily go from leapcard.ie to https://www.leapcard.ie/

Same Here!

LXFlyer · 14-01-2012 11:05pm

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not read the entire thread, for the simple reason that once again, after reading a few messages at the beginning of the thread, and then going digging on the LEAP site, i've discovered that relevant eejits have managed to produce a half baked screw up of a system that's a waste of time to me, because Ashbourne is served by BE, and BE is conspicuous by the total non mention of it on the leap web site.

The other issue is that for some stupid reason, it appears that zoning has not been implemented in a way that makes the use of the card easy. In London, and Amsterdam, it's easy, and works. Amsterdam, you board, and select the zone of your destination, and you then have a time period for which you can travel on whatever you want within the number of zones selected. London is similar, and here, we seem to have a concept that ignores that, and requires regular clocking on and off the system

Trust Ireland to come up with the most complex and incomplete system imagineable. Then again, why are BE still running "commuter" services in Dublin, by now, they should have been merged into DB, for all sorts of reasons, the main one being to make it a lot easier to manage the entire operation.

I despair of the people that supposedly consult with the public. they hold meetings about Motorway routes and junctions, or bus routes, or planning, or whatever, and at the end of the supposed consultation period, they go ahead with the exact plan they always had in place, regardless of the feedback and suggestions or objections from the people that will be using or affected by the plans.

I'm not allowed to use the language that's appropriate to describle the incompetence of the way this project has been implemented, it's cumbersome, expensive, and doesn't cover the basics. It should have been set up to cover everything inside the area of the DB service, and if that meant that BE services to those places and others inside the circle had to be moved, then that should have been done,

Are BE operating for the benefit of the travelling public, or to keep extra people employed in duplicating significant numbers of things that could be managed by DB. It's not as if they are even separately owned, the whole darn mess is owned by CIE, and that's where the problem lies, there are too many controlling and vested interests that prevent the provision of a competent and appropriate service to the people that it is supposed to.

I am so angry right now, it's not even funny, yet again, we've been sold down the river by self serving interests that do not care about the people they are supposed to be serving.

Bus Eireann will be joining the Leap card later in 2012. It's a phased rollout.

dublinman1990 · 15-01-2012 12:07am

Just heard that there were figures of 15,000 have signed up for the leap card up to Thursday 5th January 2012.

prettyboy81 · 15-01-2012 9:52am

Just my 2pence on the leap card, have it a week mainly using it on Dublin Bus no complaints & finding it a great little addition to my wallet!

Plus when machine not working on the bus which happened Friday ya get a free journey happy days

robd · 15-01-2012 10:59am

n97 mini wrote: »

No. It's actually you that's missing the point!

Go to leapcard.ie in Chrome and you will get the above error. The redirect is using the wrong SSL cert, and thus Chrome will not allow it to happen.

As stated some days ago that was fixed. Your browser is caching.

Here's the manual prove:

telnet leapcard.ie 80
Trying 149.250.244.35...
Connected to leapcard.ie.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1
Host:leapcard.ie

HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Location: https://www.leapcard.ie/
Server: Microsoft-IIS/7.5
X-Powered-By: ASP.NET
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 09:01:34 GMT
Content-Length: 147

<head><title>Document Moved</title></head>
<body><h1>Object Moved</h1>This document may be found <a HREF="https://www.leapcard.ie/">here</a></body>Connection closed by foreign host.

n97 mini · 15-01-2012 11:29am

robd wrote: »

As stated some days ago that was fixed. Your browser is caching.

Sigh. I know there's a redirect. That's been there some days.

It's a relatively minor detail, but nonetheless the cert on the https redirect on leapcard.ie is still wrong.

In the business what they did is called a workaround, it's not a fix.

AlekSmart · 15-01-2012 3:00pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Just heard that there were figures of 15,000 have signed up for the leap card up to Thursday 5th January 2012.

A single LeapCard should mhave been posted to each registered domestic address in the GDA.

No household should have been without one actual card and the info leaflet.

No need for it to be charged and operational,but it needed to be physically available for people to stroke,shake and lick if need be.

Instead,I still have several people daily asking me what this Leap thing is,how does it work,where can it be bought,how much etc etc....

There is something distinctly missing from the Publicity package,as it does not appear to be hitting the mark.....I would have went with "Bullseye" as a moniker,using the original Card Reader target as the focus..."Hit The Bullseye for the cheapest fare" etc etc.....also managing to get away from the "Swipe Card" impression still held by many ordinary folks.

By the way...I suggest that the ability to pay for more than one person using Leap will turn out to be one of the most important aids to popularity and flexibility IF the ITS people can comprehend that....

foggy_lad · 15-01-2012 3:29pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

A single LeapCard should mhave been posted to each registered domestic address in the GDA.

No household should have been without one actual card and the info leaflet.

No need for it to be charged and operational,but it needed to be physically available for people to stroke,shake and lick if need be.

Instead,I still have several people daily asking me what this Leap thing is,how does it work,where can it be bought,how much etc etc....

There is something distinctly missing from the Publicity package,as it does not appear to be hitting the mark.....I would have went with "Bullseye" as a moniker,using the original Card Reader target as the focus..."Hit The Bullseye for the cheapest fare" etc etc.....also managing to get away from the "Swipe Card" impression still held by many ordinary folks.

By the way...I suggest that the ability to pay for more than one person using Leap will turn out to be one of the most important aids to popularity and flexibility IF the ITS people can comprehend that....

Alex what is missing from the whole leap package is an ability to provide comprehensive customer care as evidenced by the number of people who contact leap for refunds only to be told to "sling yer hook" and ring the individual transport providers who promptly direct the confused users back to leap customer no-care.

If there were almost a million cards sent out the system would have crashed spectacularly and would continue to crash and flail wildly until the leap was put to sleep for good. They are not prepared or capable to deal with any relatively major incidents or even minor issues where machines on buses have prices updated early.

In the long run I see the leap card failing by virtue of none of the promised add-ons being made available and short term I see a massive leap card thread just like the thread in the broadband forums about the three network which stretched thousands of pages.

"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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