Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

German Bombers refueling in Ireland during WW2

  • 07-08-2011 8:04pm
    #1
    FensterDJ
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭


    I was talking to a Swiss guy last night and he said the German bombers were allowed to refuel in Ireland during WW2, he was saying that it would have been impossible for planes to do bombing raids on liverpool without needing to refuel somewhere

    I found this very difficult to believe, I had a look around the internet, but can't find anything about it,

    has anyone heard this before?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    That seems... silly. This is the first I've heard of anything like this and it would have been entirely out of character for the Irish government at the time

    More to the point: IIRC, and a quick Wikipedia visit supports this, the He 111 had an operational range of 1000-2000+ km, load dependent. So even a bomber with a full load could probably have made the return journey from northern France to Liverpool. So it was unquestionably possible to bomb northern England from mainland Europe without needing to refuel


  • #3
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    We were neutral during WW2 - any military from either side landing in Southern Ireland would have been sent to one of the POW camps like the one in the Curragh.

    The Luftwaffe bombers were able to reach as far as at least Belfast without refuelling


    Shane


  • #4
    FensterDJ
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭FensterDJ


    I know, it seems a pretty far fetched idea, there would have had to a be a lot of organisation and coordination to accommodate the planes, and more or less a permanent ground crew in place, essentially impossible to do with consent from the government

    i knew he was talking ****e :)


  • #5
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    In Robert Fisk's book, 'In time of War' AFAIR he mentioned that there were all types of baseless rumours such as this, ie U-Bases in Kerry etc. This is likely due to the fog of war and delibrate mis-information at that time.


  • #6
    Drake66
    Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭Drake66


    FensterDJ wrote: »
    I was talking to a Swiss guy last night and he said the German bombers were allowed to refuel in Ireland during WW2, he was saying that it would have been impossible for planes to do bombing raids on liverpool without needing to refuel somewhere

    I found this very difficult to believe, I had a look around the internet, but can't find anything about it,

    has anyone heard this before?

    You were speaking to a very silly man. You won't find anything on the internet because it didn't happen.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Glassheart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Glassheart


    It's Loyalist propaganda.

    There is no coherent account of these stories.Some will say it was simply "the Irish" and others will say it was the "IRA" that refuelled German bombers.The point being that the type of person who peddles this nonsense rarely makes a distinction between the two.

    The most common variant of this myth is that we were secretly refuelling German U-boats.Why would the Irish State at a time of fuel rationing have had the inclination to do such a thing?

    The Viscount Cranborne report makes no references to it either.Sadly this doesn't stop Loyalists pursuing their anti Irish agenda from this particular angle.


  • #8
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    Utter nonsense , even if the state was inclined to refuel German boimbers the fact is that this country simply did not have the fuel reserves needed for this.

    There were rumours of U-Boats being refuelled but it seems the closest they got to getting help from Ireland was Irish fishermen selling them fish for which they were paid with £ STG !

    A US Navy Patrol bomber while investigating alleged U-boat activity around a lighthouse on the west coast somewhere flew too close to the lighthouse and clipped its wing and crashed killing all on board.


  • #9
    HellsAngel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭HellsAngel


    Glassheart wrote: »
    It's Loyalist propaganda.

    There is no coherent account of these stories.Some will say it was simply "the Irish" and others will say it was the "IRA" that refuelled German bombers.The point being that the type of person who peddles this nonsense rarely makes a distinction between the two.

    The most common variant of this myth is that we were secretly refuelling German U-boats.Why would the Irish State at a time of fuel rationing have had the inclination to do such a thing?

    The Viscount Cranborne report makes no references to it either.Sadly this doesn't stop Loyalists pursuing their anti Irish agenda from this particular angle.
    Yes, like the one that southerner's light candles in the shape of an arrow to guide the Luftwaffe to bomb Belfast - I'm serious, I've seen the allegation on Politics.ie !!!!


  • #10
    HellsAngel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭HellsAngel


    FensterDJ wrote: »
    I was talking to a Swiss guy last night and he said the German bombers were allowed to refuel in Ireland during WW2, he was saying that it would have been impossible for planes to do bombing raids on liverpool without needing to refuel somewhere

    I found this very difficult to believe, I had a look around the internet, but can't find anything about it,

    has anyone heard this before?
    Maybe you should have asked him did the Luftwaffe also refuel in Ireland after bombing the North Strand in Dublin to return home.


  • #11
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    I do not think so somehow they refuelled in northern ireland there is wee huts everywhere here and i have yet to see any of these in donegal if they did refuel there you would see the wee huts.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Opelfruit
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Opelfruit


    owenc wrote: »
    I do not think so somehow they refuelled in northern ireland there is wee huts everywhere here and i have yet to see any of these in donegal if they did refuel there you would see the wee huts.
    I'm sorry Owenc, are you suggesting that Nazi service vehicles were refueling in the UK during WWII? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?


  • #13
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Opelfruit wrote: »
    I'm sorry Owenc, are you suggesting that Nazi service vehicles were refueling in the UK during WWII? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

    Opelfruit - I don't know how you were able to make anything out of Owenc's post. Sometimes he makes sense other times......:rolleyes:


  • #14
    emmet the rover
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭emmet the rover


    i did hear rumors that there was a landing strip built in donegal for allied plaines coming from the states but these were just rumors.

    i heard a story about a RAF member that crashed in the free state and was promptly arrested and sent to the curragh.
    he escaped the same day and made his way to the north (newery i think) where he presented himself to the nearist army base.
    when he explained to the CO what happend he was arrested by a MP and sent back to the curragh camp.

    the fact ireland was a neutral party the uk did not want to upset them by encouraging there troops to escape from pow camps there.

    the unfortunate RAF member had more bad luck as when he got back he found the other internees were cross with him for escaping as they has lost privilages while he was away.


  • #15
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    emmet the rover wrote: »
    i did hear rumors that there was a landing strip built in donegal for allied plaines coming from the states but these were just rumors.

    i heard a story about a RAF member that crashed in the free state and was promptly arrested and sent to the curragh.
    he escaped the same day and made his way to the north (newery i think) where he presented himself to the nearist army base.
    when he explained to the CO what happend he was arrested by a MP and sent back to the curragh camp.

    the fact ireland was a neutral party the uk did not want to upset them by encouraging there troops to escape from pow camps there.

    the unfortunate RAF member had more bad luck as when he got back he found the other internees were cross with him for escaping as they has lost privilages while he was away.

    More total tosh I'm afraid. I don't know where all this guff is coming from, it's not as if it has not all been in the public domain for years. There were no Allied or Axis air bases/U Boat pens in the Irish Free State during the war and all evidence points to Ireland being neutral on the side of the Allies. The story about an RAF man being returned to the Republic from NI is bar stool talk.


  • #16
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Opelfruit wrote: »
    I'm sorry Owenc, are you suggesting that Nazi service vehicles were refueling in the UK during WWII? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

    Yes sorry I realize now I meant the American... I was thinking on the Germans flying overhead


  • #17
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    More total tosh I'm afraid. I don't know where all this guff is coming from, it's not as if it has not all been in the public domain for years. There were no Allied or Axis air bases/U Boat pens in the Irish Free State during the war and all evidence points to Ireland being neutral on the side of the Allies. The story about an RAF man being returned to the Republic from NI is bar stool talk.

    +1

    A thoroughly silly thread. Began on a bar stool and is still there...


  • #18
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Delancey wrote: »
    Utter nonsense , even if the state was inclined to refuel German boimbers the fact is that this country simply did not have the fuel reserves needed for this.

    There were rumours of U-Boats being refuelled but it seems the closest they got to getting help from Ireland was Irish fishermen selling them fish for which they were paid with £ STG !

    A US Navy Patrol bomber while investigating alleged U-boat activity around a lighthouse on the west coast somewhere flew too close to the lighthouse and clipped its wing and crashed killing all on board.
    the only fuel/oil ireland got during the war was from british oil tankers,so i would not think ireland would have chanced on any german refueling.


  • #19
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    More total tosh I'm afraid. I don't know where all this guff is coming from, it's not as if it has not all been in the public domain for years. There were no Allied or Axis air bases/U Boat pens in the Irish Free State during the war and all evidence points to Ireland being neutral on the side of the Allies. The story about an RAF man being returned to the Republic from NI is bar stool talk.

    I'm sorry but you don't know what your talking about you are from Dublin or somewhere anything couldve happened and I think if it did the locals would know... There was alot of secret things in the war you know


  • #20
    emmet the rover
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭emmet the rover


    MarchDub wrote: »
    +1

    A thoroughly silly thread. Began on a bar stool and is still there...

    well obviously i wasent there so cant speak from experience. but i definetly remember hearing the archicoligost excavating the site of the crash and found this from a diffrent source the BBC. make what you will of it but i feel i was justified in believing it.
    i am not in the habit of spreading unfounded rumors without pointing out what they are. :D



    His spitfire crashed into the peat bog of the Inishowen peninsula, County Donegal, and remained there until earlier this summer.
    Rounded up by the Irish authorities, Roland "Bud" Wolfe, 23, an officer from 133 "Eagle" Squadron, a unit entirely composed of Americans, was sent to the Curragh internment camp in County Kildare.
    Ireland remained neutral during WWII and its government decided to intern any servicemen who ended up on Irish soil.
    However, eager to return to the front line Wolfe walked straight out of camp and headed into nearby Dublin and caught the train the next day to Belfast. Within hours he was back at RAF Eglinton where he had taken off two weeks earlier in his defective Spitfire.
    Unfortunately, he didn't get the chance to fly again as the British government decided it would be unwise to upset a neutral nation and Wolfe was sent back to the internment camp.

    taken from
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14421581


  • #21
    DjFlin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DjFlin


    owenc wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you don't know what your talking about you are from Dublin or somewhere anything couldve happened and I think if it did the locals would know... There was alot of secret things in the war you know

    If your going to accuse someone of being ignorant, you might want to attack his points, not where hes from, otherwise you end up looking silly. You basically said "You're from Dublin, therefore you're wrong." Which really just backs up his argument that this thread is bar stool banter.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    emmet the rover
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭emmet the rover


    did a little more digging and found that lough eirne a lake near the border was used as a base for allied flying boats that were allowed to fly trough irish airspace called "the donegal corridor"

    sources
    irish independent
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/plaques-mark-secret-wartime-air-corridor-in-donegal-44249.html


  • #23
    moomooman
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 141 ✭✭moomooman


    On the west coast of Ireland you can still see the coded marker beacon system that was set up at the request of the USA to help their bombers navigate to their bases in the UK.

    RAF flying boats were allowed use Irish airspace to avoid a huge detour while patrolling the north atlantic.

    The Royal Navy had a armed lifeboat based in Galway (I believe it was Galway?) that was patrolling and rescuing sailors throughout the war.

    The Irish government was providing weather data to the allies, most crucially on the eve of Dday.

    Some allied airmen were allowed to return to the north and thus return to their units.

    Theres a whole lot of anti irish propaganda about WW2, I wonder what Switzerland was doing at the time....

    Neutral Ireland did take a side in WW2 but it was the allied not the axis :)


  • #24
    Riprod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Riprod


    Hi all,

    A German JU-88 nightfighter did land in Gormanston in 1945, it was refuelled and flew to the UK (with a non-german crew) where it was examined in detail (particularly the radar). The pictures are in the military archives.

    An American fighter pilot did land in Ireland, was captured and did escape. He was sent back to Ireland (as he had give his word in the Curragh not to escape) to finish his internment. Subsequently, allied service men were removed from the Curragh (where German and Allied servicemen were interned almost side by side) to an camp in Gormanstown where they were quietly returned to allied hands.


  • #25
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    emmet the rover wrote: »
    well obviously i wasent there so cant speak from experience. but i definetly remember hearing the archicoligost excavating the site of the crash and found this from a diffrent source the BBC. make what you will of it but i feel i was justified in believing it.
    i am not in the habit of spreading unfounded rumors without pointing out what they are. :D



    His spitfire crashed into the peat bog of the Inishowen peninsula, County Donegal, and remained there until earlier this summer.
    Rounded up by the Irish authorities, Roland "Bud" Wolfe, 23, an officer from 133 "Eagle" Squadron, a unit entirely composed of Americans, was sent to the Curragh internment camp in County Kildare.
    Ireland remained neutral during WWII and its government decided to intern any servicemen who ended up on Irish soil.
    However, eager to return to the front line Wolfe walked straight out of camp and headed into nearby Dublin and caught the train the next day to Belfast. Within hours he was back at RAF Eglinton where he had taken off two weeks earlier in his defective Spitfire.
    Unfortunately, he didn't get the chance to fly again as the British government decided it would be unwise to upset a neutral nation and Wolfe was sent back to the internment camp.

    taken from
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14421581

    I take back what I originally said as having researched it a bit more and it seems like a totally bizarre incident and one which I doubt was repeated. I hope that who ever was responsible for sending him back to the Curragh ended up in Singapore or some other fiasco. I would have thought that in 1941 RAF pilots would have been at a premium and I can't imagine Churchill would have approved of such an unnecessary act of appeasement towards the Free State. It appears that Wolfe was released in 1943 and joined in the war again! http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=25918


  • #26
    emmet the rover
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭emmet the rover


    no worries it was my fault as i should have backed up my post with at least one reliable reference.


  • #27
    Riprod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Riprod


    Found this reference to the German aircraft on

    http://www.csn.ul.ie/~dan/war/crashes.htm

    Junkers Ju-88 G-6C serial 621642 D5+GH from Luftwaffe I/NJG.3 (Nacht Jag Gesh - Night fighter Sqn) landed May 5th 1945, Meath Gormanstown. Crew Ofw. Herbert Gieseke, Gefr. Bernard Kruschyne, Uffz. Horst Schmidt

    Crew defected/escaped from Denmark. This aircraft became RAF VK888, Flown out on 1 June 1945 by E. M. Brown and Miller RAF.

    Other info, a number of headlands around the Irish coast had markers "EIRE" in white stones with a number, a crew could then identify exactly where they were on the Irish coast by looking up a reference table. These markers still exist.:)


  • #28
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Riprod - now that's what I call a link! Fascinating stuff, thanks for posting.


  • #29
    Riprod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭Riprod


    Hi all,

    Another thread on boards has dealth with this topic.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056199165

    Some great video and information, well done to the contributers. Each EIRE sign had a number. So a crew could lookup a map and see exactly where they were on the Irish Coast.

    Some allied aircraft landed in Ireland and were refuelled and sent on their way. The link I posted earlier is a great read.

    The link below has pictures of the Ju-88 in Ireland

    http://www.balbriggan.net/GermanPlane.htm


  • #30
    HellsAngel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭HellsAngel


    moomooman wrote: »
    On the west coast of Ireland you can still see the coded marker beacon system that was set up at the request of the USA to help their bombers navigate to their bases in the UK.

    RAF flying boats were allowed use Irish airspace to avoid a huge detour while patrolling the north atlantic.

    The Royal Navy had a armed lifeboat based in Galway (I believe it was Galway?) that was patrolling and rescuing sailors throughout the war.
    Interesting, never heard of that before, surprised Dev would tolerate it, any links ?
    The Irish government was providing weather data to the allies, most crucially on the eve of Dday.
    Couldn't ( and they probably did ) the Germans if they wanted weather data from Ireland just listen in to Radio Eireann ? Couldn't their own navy and U boats monitor the weather and signal back from out in the Atlantic ?


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    HellsAngel wrote: »
    Couldn't ( and they probably did ) the Germans if they wanted weather data from Ireland just listen in to Radio Eireann ? Couldn't their own navy and U boats monitor the weather and signal back from out in the Atlantic ?

    It's my understanding that Radio Eireann forecasts were severely restricted and censored during the war for that very reason.

    As the war progressed it became more difficult and dangerous for German U-boats to stay on the surface for the periods required to get decent weather data. Even if they got such data it had to be radioed back to their headquarters , the issue here was that the Allies had HFDF ( High Frequency Direction Finding ) sometimes called ' HuffDuff ' and this allowed patrolling anti-submarine aircraft to home in on the radio traffic of a surfaced U-Boat.


Advertisement