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Learner permits driving alone. Enforcement?

  • 29-06-2009 3:32pm
    #1
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I'm being told that the cops aren't really too interested in enforcing the new legislation.

    Can anyone confirm this?

    Even and consistant enforcement must be the only way to ensure maximum compliance surely?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    I'm being told that the cops aren't really too interested in enforcing the new legislation.

    Can anyone confirm this?

    Even and consistant enforcement must be the only way to ensure maximum compliance surely?

    I can only assume from seeing huge amounts of people driving alone in cars with L plates and from watching Traffic Corp on RTE that they very much dont care about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭Stealdo


    Stekelly wrote: »
    I can only assume from seeing huge amounts of people driving alone in cars with L plates and from watching Traffic Corp on RTE that they very much dont care about it.

    Yep - last week on that thing there was a woman pulled over for texting while driving. She had L-plates sitting on the passenger seat of the car. Garda told her to put them up when she gets home, never mentioned the fact that she didn't have a license to be driving on her own (the voice over confirmed the provisional).

    Not only are they not interested in enforcing it, they're advertising the fact on prime time TV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,147 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    If you speak to the Garda in Phoenix Park they will tell you that the Gardai have a duty to stop all these drivers and enforce the law but Joe Garda will tell you that they will take a tolerant view.

    I am of the opinion that if you are in breach of the law and the terms of your license then you should have no insurance and by not having both of these you are a danger on the road and should be stopped at all costs.

    I am aware, however, that the Insurance companies will still cover third party claims if a L driver crashes but they shouldnt really. You should have to sue the L driver because they have no right to be driving alone.

    The Law is the Law and the Gardai do not enforce it.

    If the Garda were given a special book to carry with them for enforcing it I bet they would. Anything that appears like too much hard work appears to fall by the wayside.(sp).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    its up to the gardai you meet... if you fecked up big style like let say have a crash you wont have insurance so they could do you for the €1000 euro fine for driving on your own 12 points for no insurance and could put you in front of the courts again for dangerous driving...

    Its up to you if its worth the risk...

    saying all that you may never be in a crash or meet the wrong type of gardai...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,682 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    It really pisses me off though.

    I am a learner driver myself. I've seen several of my friends driving around with their L plates, or taking them off, unaccompanied.

    Their reason for doing it? "Sure you never get caught". :rolleyes:

    I will never drive unaccompanied. Partly because I'm going to be on my Dad's insurance, in his car, and he is sure as hell not going to let me, but mainly because I don't want to break the law, putting other's people's life in danger, just so I can get around.

    People say that they don't have any choice or whatever, which just is ridiculous.
    I really hope that the Gardai tackle down on it more in the future.

    Sorry, needed to rant. :o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    afatbollix wrote: »

    saying all that you may never be in a crash or meet the wrong type of gardai...

    Surely you mean the right type of Gard? The wrong type are the ones that let people drive around breaking laws with impunity.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭messygirl


    are posters here for real?! if the gardai start enforcing everyone complains "sure there is no public transport" and if they don't enforce they are being labelled lazy because they don't want the extra hassle. My brother's a garda, and he thinks its better to be fair and give people a chance unless they are being outright dangerous or a dick, this includes people with other offences. It differes with who pulls you over, and it also depends on if they ar traffic corp (stricter) or regular gardai. And frankly when I was a learner I was a lot more careful on the roads. Now i have my full licence I've noticed my speed increasing. But give the guards a break, I always drove on my own because of circumstances I didn't have someone to sit beside me. When I pased checkpoints they waved me on even though i had L plates and i am damn grateful too!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    They very much should enforce it. It's the law.

    A prime example was on Traffic Blues - a woman, learner driver, L plates up, driving alone (no full license with her) with 5 kids in the back (not wearing belts), and she tried to reverse away from a Garda checkpoint, but yet when the Gardai got to her, they just spoke to her, nothing more than that - a warning.

    Now, she was a danger to herself, the kids, and cars around (as she tried to escape the checkpoint). Surely that should be dealt with????


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Cionád


    If your in the local lidl carpark doing doghnuts you might get the fine, otherwise its not enforced at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭messygirl


    Paulw of course they should enforce it when a woman has five kids and none wearing seatbelts and reverses out of the checkpoint, the issue in this thread is just the L plates and should it be enforced, and frankly i think the gardai use there own judgement, and some L drivers are as good or better than full licence. I just don't like when people categorisethe gardai as lazy because they are giving people a break regarding the L drivers, and the issue i was referring to was that L drivers should be cut out from the roads. it has to be introduced gradually and more support systems set up, like providing driving lessons in schools. You have to have ten driving lessons before you take your test, what about all the people on the dole now? think they will be able to afford loads of driving lessons? I don't think learner drivers are the most serious problem,


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    What message does this non enforcement give to road users? Comply with road traffic laws if you wish?

    It's a complete jokeshop.

    People without full licences should not be allowed drive alone. It's that simple. They've had plenty of time to sit and pass a test at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    There is a role for discretion in enforcement, someone may generally be law abiding and make a mistake. But if you have a L driver routinely driving around with no accompanying driver then this is deliberate and should attract the penalty defined in law. A warning is "don't do it again", it should not be "carry on".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 me_shell_86


    i have a provisional and some of the dumb asses i see driving with full licences really annoys me! who the hell passed them on the test, the whole system is a joke


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    messygirl wrote: »
    Paulw of course they should enforce it when a woman has five kids and none wearing seatbelts and reverses out of the checkpoint, the issue in this thread is just the L plates and should it be enforced, and frankly i think the gardai use there own judgement, and some L drivers are as good or better than full licence. I just don't like when people categorisethe gardai as lazy because they are giving people a break regarding the L drivers, and the issue i was referring to was that L drivers should be cut out from the roads. it has to be introduced gradually and more support systems set up, like providing driving lessons in schools. You have to have ten driving lessons before you take your test, what about all the people on the dole now? think they will be able to afford loads of driving lessons? I don't think learner drivers are the most serious problem,

    1/. If the L driver is good enough they should take and pass the test.

    2/. L drivers deliberately flouting the law is the subject matter here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 me_shell_86


    1/. If the L driver is good enough they should take and pass the test.

    2/. L drivers deliberately flouting the law is the subject matter here.

    i know this is said a lot and some driving testers are grand but some of them fail you on the slightest little thing when you can drive just fine!

    i failed because i didnt stop at a pedestrian crossing...but there was no one crossing so why would you stop? i think they never should have changed the law and that when your on your second provisional, you should be able to drive by yourself...

    what's the person sitting next to you with a license gonna do if something happens anyway....??


  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭AdamusAdonis


    In response to the original post, they were never too keen on enforcing the same law which existed before the "learner permit"...


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    i know this is said a lot and some driving testers are grand but some of them fail you on the slightest little thing when you can drive just fine!

    i failed because i didnt stop at a pedestrian crossing...but there was no one crossing so why would you stop? i think they never should have changed the law and that when your on your second provisional, you should be able to drive by yourself...

    what's the person sitting next to you with a license gonna do if something happens anyway....??

    1/. True. Life unfortunately is frequently unfair.

    2/. Subject to correction but you are not obliged to stop at a pedestrian crossing if nobody is there.

    3/. Dunno. The rules are the rules however.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    In response to the original post, they were never too keen on enforcing the same law which existed before the "learner permit"...

    I agree, but the legislation was blamed.

    That's now been changed however.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    i think they never should have changed the law and that when your on your second provisional, you should be able to drive by yourself...

    Well, if you think it's alright then they should change the law back. Let's not follow the rest of the developed world and allow inexperienced drivers behind the wheel of a deadly weapon.

    [/climb off high horse]


  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭AdamusAdonis


    I agree, but the legislation was blamed.
    That's now been changed however.

    No matter, were talking about people enforcing it. The legislation in the background makes no odds unless the guy/gal actually wants to use it :/


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    messygirl wrote: »
    You have to have ten driving lessons before you take your test, what about all the people on the dole now?

    Where does it say you need to have 10 driving lessons? I certainly didn't have 10.

    I had 4, with a brilliant instructor, and then loads of practice in prep for my test. My girlfriend was brilliant (she's the full license) and went around with me most evenings. I passed my test first time.

    Yes, driving schools, etc would be better, but we all have to work within the laws.

    And, the law was changed ONLY for those on a 2nd provisional license. It didn't change for those on a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th provisional.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 me_shell_86


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Well, if you think it's alright then they should change the law back. Let's not follow the rest of the developed world and allow inexperienced drivers behind the wheel of a deadly weapon.

    [/climb off high horse]


    not all of them are inexperienced though.... i totally agree if you dont have proper experience 6 months etc i think u need to have before applying for your test, then obviously dont go driving on your own... but 2nd provisional drivers should have enough experience to be able to drive without someone beside you who cant do anything anyway.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    not all of them are inexperienced though.... i totally agree if you dont have proper experience 6 months etc i think u need to have before applying for your test, then obviously dont go driving on your own... but 2nd provisional drivers should have enough experience to be able to drive without someone beside you who cant do anything anyway.....

    Well, if they are that good - WHY DON'T THEY PASS THE FU**ING TEST???


  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭AdamusAdonis


    To an extent, take me for example. I've a second provisional... but zero experience.
    Best medicine: Allow no-one but fully licensed drivers on the road alone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 me_shell_86


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Well, if they are that good - WHY DON'T THEY PASS THE FU**ING TEST???


    you can fail a test on the smallest of things, some ppl with full licences drive like crap too , im not saying every person on a provisional is a good driver, just dnt agree with that law , thats my opinion , thats all!


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    Driving lessons are not compulsory. There is no requirement to have taken any prior to taking the test. Although they are handy! Just to clarify the test is not about being a good driver, it's about being a 'safe' driver.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    you can fail a test on the smallest of things

    If you fail, you fail and aren't a good enough driver to drive by yourself on the road.
    just dnt agree with that law , thats my opinion , thats all!

    And it's that sort of attitude that (IMHO) is responsible for the shocking state of the majority of driver in this country. People think driving is a right rather than a privilege


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 me_shell_86


    R.O.R wrote: »
    If you fail, you fail and aren't a good enough driver to drive by yourself on the road.



    And it's that sort of attitude that (IMHO) is responsible for the shocking state of the majority of driver in this country. People think driving is a right rather than a privilege

    yes and every car accident in Ireland is caused by provisional drivers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,335 ✭✭✭✭UrbanSea


    To skip all this banter,no the gaurds arent enforcing it.
    A provisional driver I know went into the garda station and asked them this and they were told they werent stoppin L drivers just for been unaccompanied in their car while driving.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭hobochris


    yes and every car accident in Ireland is caused by provisional drivers

    R.O.R never implied that.

    The fact of the matter is, you are expected to abide by the law and when driving do so in a safe manner while observing the rules of the road.

    The test is in place to make sure you can drive to a certain standard, abide by the rules of the road and drive safely.

    Weather some fully licensed drivers seem worse on the roads or not is irreverent to the fact that they have at one stage proved they can drive in a competent and safe manor unlike provisional drivers who have not yet proved this through the test.

    If fully licensed drivers want to flaunt the rules of road then they risk losing their privilege of driving, as do learners who do likewise, but the difference is the learner is risking a privilege they have not yet earned by proving themselves competent and safe through the test.


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