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Commissioner Callinan resigns with immediate effect

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Comments

  • #32
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    That's what the GRA and AGSI have been calling for but suddenly it's now a new good idea


    I wasn't aware of that. Sources? Links?


  • #33
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #34
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    I wasn't aware of that. Sources? Links?

    During last years annual meeting.

    http://www.gra.cc/agenda_2013.shtml
    Policing Authority
    3. “That Conference demands the establishment of an independent police authority to remove political interference from An Garda Siochána”. (CEC)


  • #35
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    I didn't say a civilian.

    Who would you like?


  • #36
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    An independent police authority would be a good idea to have some greater oversight of the commissioner and senior AGS.

    A non-member commissioner would be a mistake I believe.


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  • #37
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #38
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    Someone from a police force abroad.

    Are yee all afraid of a new broom sweeping the crap out the door?

    Who's yee?


  • #39
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #40
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That would be one option, but any non-member wouldn't have the advantage of the experience of policing in Ireland. Different countries have different issues, and in turn lead to different policing efforts and tactics.

    Not to mention any non-member commissioner wouldn't have the same degree of faith & confidence of front-line AGS members. Its important leadership can effectively lead.


  • #41
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    During last years annual meeting.

    http://www.gra.cc/agenda_2013.shtml

    The AGSI has also called for the establishment of an Independent Police Authority to run the force.

    The association said the Government has too much control over the force since the implementation of the 2005 Garda Síochána Act.

    The AGSI said the Government decides how much money the force has to tackle crime, what stations remain open and what individuals are promoted to the senior ranks.

    Association General Secretary Joe Dirwan said this has to change and an independent police authority must be established.

    He said the Commissioner would still be responsible for the policing plan, but the authority would approve it as well as allocating budgets and appointing senior officers.

    The Department of Justice said it has no plans to introduce an independent policing authority.

    Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan said he has never experienced political interference in the course of his leadership of the force.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0403/315916-further-garda-station-closures-in-the-offing/


    Same objective, different motivations perhaps.


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  • #42
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Same objective, different motivations perhaps.

    I disagree, I think Shatter & Callinan have always been too close.

    Take the situation between Shatter and Mick Wallace, in regards to him being stopped for using his phone. Clearly Shatter was fed this information by Callinan. That is not a healthy working relationship for the minister and the comissioner to have.

    This demand from the GRA for an independent police authority was a clear step to stop the above influence from occuring.


  • #43
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I would not go as far to say the force is out of control.

    As a serving Reserve if anything this just bashes down even more the moral of the full time members. Someone needs to be in charge that fights for the members and develops some changes for good, changes on all levels that keep everyone happy.

    This is now the perfect opportunity. IMO the government appointing someone to be Commissioner/CEO of any public entity/organisation is a perfect conditions for a scandal or disaster. It should be either voted for internally by the members or handed over the public appointments service.


  • #44
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    I disagree, I think Shatter & Callinan have always been too close.

    Take the situation between Shatter and Mick Wallace, in regards to him being stopped for using his phone. Clearly Shatter was fed this information by Callinan. That is not a healthy working relationship for the minister and the comissioner to have.

    This demand from the GRA for an independent police authority was a clear step to stop the above influence from occuring.


    AGS wants an Independent Police Commissioner but has obstructed the GSOC on several (or even numerous) cases.

    Doesn't add up.

    An organisation that circles the wagons when confronted by the GSOC is not one seeking openness and transparency in the form of an Independent Commission, I reckon.


  • #45
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    AGS wants an Independent Police Commissioner but has obstructed the GSOC on several (or even numerous) cases.

    Doesn't add up.

    An organisation that circles the wagons when confronted by the GSOC is not one seeking openness and transparency in the form of an Independent Commission, I reckon.

    What obstructions are you referring to?

    Would you rather they didn't call for an independent police authority?


  • #46
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,849 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The Smithwicks report found the GS and Callinan were more interested in covering for each other than getting to the truth. Is the appointment of a new head of the force from within going to change that culture, or the attempts from within the force to hinder GSOC?
    Imo, cannot see it


  • #47
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    charlie14 wrote: »
    The Smithwicks report found the GS and Callinan were more interested in covering for each other than getting to the truth. Is the appointment of a new head of the force from within going to change that culture, or the attempts from within the force to hinder GSOC?
    Imo, cannot see it

    The Smithwicks report found nothing, the Judge overseeing it did suggest that the gardai were more loyal to the AGS than honest admittedly.

    3 retired gardai from the 1980's does not reflect on the AGS's current culture.

    Do you have any other examples?

    Edit: More to the point, this investigation was not carried out by GSOC.


  • #48
    D.Campbell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 194 ✭✭D.Campbell


    Looks like they are all covering their bums, running to tell us about the taping B.S big time holding on to their jobs more like


  • #49
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #50
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Surely this is the opposite of what happened.

    The government was made aware of the practice in November 2013.


  • #51
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    Surely this is the opposite of what happened.

    The government was made aware of the practice in November 2013.

    Fred isn't interested in the facts


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  • #52
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #53
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Look if you want to have a mature discussion we can continue, but if you're going to go off ranting and raving head over to After Hours.


  • #54
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    Neither are the Gardaí.

    I have no time for members of a corrupt organisation where one hand washes the other.

    The legal profession?


  • #55
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,849 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    The Smithwicks report found nothing, the Judge overseeing it did suggest that the gardai were more loyal to the AGS than honest admittedly.

    3 retired gardai from the 1980's does not reflect on the AGS's current culture.

    Do you have any other examples?

    Edit: More to the point, this investigation was not carried out by GSOC.
    I didn`t suggest it was carried out by GSOC, and perhaps the Judges "suggestion" had a bearing on why the report found nothing. A "suggestion that Callinan said he would never accept.
    But then again, he wouldn`t as he was accused by the Judge for directing his counsel for doing the same.

    As for any other examples. GSOC`s attempts to get to the bottom of the drug smuggler/garda informant Kieran Boylan affair?


  • #56
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,849 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    The Smithwicks report found nothing, the Judge overseeing it did suggest that the gardai were more loyal to the AGS than honest admittedly.

    3 retired gardai from the 1980's does not reflect on the AGS's current culture.

    Do you have any other examples?

    Edit: More to the point, this investigation was not carried out by GSOC.

    Btw, callinans comment to the PAC that only 2 out of a force of 13000 had a problem with penalty points, in light of recent findings re penalty points, does tend to say a lot about garda culture


  • #57
    Hitchroun
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Hitchroun


    charlie14 wrote: »
    I didn`t suggest it was carried out by GSOC, and perhaps the Judges "suggestion" had a bearing on why the report found nothing. A "suggestion that Callinan said he would never accept.
    But then again, he wouldn`t as he was accused by the Judge for directing his counsel for doing the same.

    As for any other examples. GSOC`s attempts to get to the bottom of the drug smuggler/garda informant Kieran Boylan affair?

    I would have to agree with you there, GSOC did complain about delays between the gardai and themselves. Hopefully further measures will be taken come the reforms review in June. However if its delays we're worried about then it would be far from the "out of control" police force the AGS have been referred to.


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Btw, callinans comment to the PAC that only 2 out of a force of 13000 had a problem with penalty points, in light of recent findings re penalty points, does tend to say a lot about garda culture

    I think it said more about Callinan than anything else. Look what happened when two members finally did say something, they were thrown to the dogs. I can't say I would be interested in putting my career on the line in the same manner knowing what kind of backing I would recieve from the commissioner.


  • #58
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,849 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Hitchroun wrote: »
    I would have to agree with you there, GSOC did complain about delays between the gardai and themselves. Hopefully further measures will be taken come the reforms review in June. However if its delays we're worried about then it would be far from the "out of control" police force the AGS have been referred to.





    I think it said more about Callinan than anything else. Look what happened when two members finally did say something, they were thrown to the dogs. I can't say I would be interested in putting my career on the line in the same manner knowing what kind of backing I would recieve from the commissioner.

    Unless there is a change in attitude from AGS in general, in all grades, towards GSOC from what presently appears to be the case, all the reviews in the world aren`t going to make any difference.
    I can well understand your point about putting a career on the line, but for me anyway, the real "disgusting" revealation in all this was the treatment of Mc Cabe and Wilson by other members of the force in their own areas. That does not reflect well on the current culture within AGS


  • #59
    ubercool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭ubercool


    Very sad news, and end to a meteoric career after 41 years of service.

    I think it is a shame he resigned. But I think he was right not to withdraw the remarks.


  • #60
    bravestar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭bravestar


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Unless there is a change in attitude from AGS in general, in all grades, towards GSOC from what presently appears to be the case, all the reviews in the world aren`t going to make any difference.
    I can well understand your point about putting a career on the line, but for me anyway, the real "disgusting" revealation in all this was the treatment of Mc Cabe and Wilson by other members of the force in their own areas. That does not reflect well on the current culture within AGS

    Maybe GSOC should change their attitude towards members of AGS and some progress will be made.


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  • #61
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,849 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    ubercool wrote: »
    Very sad news, and end to a meteoric career after 41 years of service.

    I think it is a shame he resigned. But I think he was right not to withdraw the remarks.

    I also think it`s a shame he resigned.
    For not withdrawing the remark when he was given the chance to at the PAC, and especially his refusal to apologise since McCabe and Wilson have been totally vindicated, he should have been sacked.


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