Do you see Gatso vans/Speed Vans as a necessity or a revenue stream

sfwcork · 26-11-2012 4:57pm #1

I had this discussion with a good mate of mine who is a guard over the weekend. My point was that I see vans in zones which are not notorious black spots and now more in areas where it would be considered an "Easy catch"Im all for any measure which will actually save lives but not all for a hidden revenue streamwhats the opinion?

Jesus Wept · 26-11-2012 4:57pm

I don't see them, I'm driving too fast.

Melion · 26-11-2012 4:58pm

They are a joke, i passed 2 on Saturday afternoon on the same stretch of road within 2 miles of each other. Everyone knows where they are on that particular road.

Shenshen · 26-11-2012 5:02pm

I'm for them as a necessary instrument to enforce adherence to the rules of the road.
I honestly don't care where they place them. If, as you say, they are placed where they are likely to generate the most revenue, they must be placed somewhere where people are more liable to speed.
Therefore a good spot.

I don't see them as a "revenue stream" so much. After all, it's completely up to each individual driver if they want to speed, and therefore potentially end up paying.

sfwcork · 26-11-2012 5:03pm

wrote:

Andy Carroll
Unplayable
driving too fast.

hey andy hows life at the hammers

you can afford to pay them with the 70K a week you earn.Drive on lad

Casillas · 26-11-2012 5:05pm

You may be on to something OP;

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/100m-car-tax-dodgers-to-be-caught-by-speed-cameras-3243034.html

Stinicker · 26-11-2012 5:07pm

They represent nothing less than the typical corrupt politics which has ruined Ireland. They are ran by Go-Safe a consortium led by Xavier McAuliffe a big Fianna Fail supporter.

If I am ever caught speeding I would go to jail before I'd pay a brown cent to them shower.

snubbleste · 26-11-2012 5:09pm

If people did not commit the offences then there would be no need for them.

bluecode · 26-11-2012 5:13pm

There are two kinds of speed vans. The go safe vans which heavily marked and whose locations are well known. You can even get a phone app which warns you when you enter a camera zone. I actually live in one so I can't switch it on in the house.:D So there's no excuse for getting caught by one of those.

Then there's the Garda vans which can be anywhere. The only time I've seen them has been on motorways which I find ridiculous. When I see that I suspect it's a moneymaking scam because so many people go faster on the motorway. Yet it's far less dangerous than doing the same thing on an ordinary road.

garv123 · 26-11-2012 5:15pm

On a 30mile stretch of 80km/h road there used always be speed checks.. Since the gatso vans came in that road was deemed unsafe to position vans and there hasn't been a speed check since.. There are people killed on the road every year..
Further in the road near the town where they can put the van has never had deaths on the stretch of road its on.

sfwcork · 26-11-2012 5:15pm

wrote:

snubbleste

If people did not commit the offences then there would be no need for them.

thats correct but there is also a % of roads where the speed limit is not fair and needs to reviewed.Even the government are admitting that

do you really think all gatso vans are in "Fair" Places where the speed limit is fair

UCDVet · 26-11-2012 5:23pm

snubbleste wrote: »

If people did not commit the offences then there would be no need for them.

In theory - maybe.
In practice - no.

People have spent a lot of time monitoring traffic patterns. The vast majority of people will drive at a reasonable speed, regardless of the posted limit. Some small percentage of people will speed, regardless of the posted limit.

Speeding tickets are rarely an effective deterrent... but whatever. That's fair enough, let speeders pay for their offences, right?

Except, people are greedy, crooked, bastards. And it doesn't take long before the people in power want more power. They use the guise of 'safety' but it's really about money and power. Since things like Speed Vans turn a profit and that profit is controlled by the people running the Vans - well, they have a monetary incentive to ticket people. The goal isn't maintaining safety, the goal is generating revenue.

And then you see things change. Things like speed limits being artificially lowered such that most reasonable drivers are now speeding, so that they have more people to ticket. Things like 'Pay the ticket now and it's only X euros, but if you want to defend yourself, you have to pay 2X euro!' start to happen. No justice, a company says you did a crime, so you have to pay; because lord knows you won't win if you fight it. So you pay the 1/2 now instead of the full-price later and bitch and moan about it.

Even when it puts people's lives at risk - governments are happy enough to let their citizens die for increased revenue. Red-light camera's have been installed in places as a source of revenue, cities start spending that revenue, but it quickly tappers off as people realize 100% of violations result in a ticket and they learn where they are places. So the cities reduce the amount of time the light is yellow, so that drivers who aren't doing anything wrong will get tickets too. Then drivers get so paranoid, the slam on their brakes rather than risk going through the intersection and the guy behind them crashes into them.

L.Jenkins · 26-11-2012 5:26pm

Revenue stream all the way. The cunts nabbed me once, when they were hidden down a side road in the dark of night. Won't happen again, that I can guarentee.

MagicSean · 26-11-2012 5:27pm

Melion wrote: »

They are a joke, i passed 2 on Saturday afternoon on the same stretch of road within 2 miles of each other. Everyone knows where they are on that particular road.

And do they drive slower?

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 26-11-2012 5:32pm

Mainly a revenue stream. If they are supposed to make our roads safer then..

Why are they not painted in an high visability colour, so people will see them, and slow down? lots of them are painted black and hidden to try and catch the driver out. Thats not really making our roads safer.
why are they put in wide safe stretchs of road, where there has never been a crash

Shenshen · 26-11-2012 5:33pm

garv123 wrote: »

On a 30mile stretch of 80km/h road there used always be speed checks.. Since the gatso vans came in that road was deemed unsafe to position vans and there hasn't been a speed check since.. There are people killed on the road every year..
Further in the road near the town where they can put the van has never had deaths on the stretch of road its on.

In fairness to them, I had been asking my hubby recently on a particularly dangerous stretch of road where there never are any speed vans why there weren't any. He replied saying that usually, whenever a car driver spots one of these vans, they will drop whatever speed they were doing before, legal or not, and crawl by the van at around 30 kph.
On a bendy, dangerous road, this behaviour would result in the road becoming even more dangerous than it already is, as people would not necessarily see the cars in front of them breaking in time.

And I have to say I would agree with him there. As long as the average Irish driver has no idea what the legal limit is on whatever stretch of road he might be on at any given time, they will start acting as a serious danger to other drivers the moment they spot a van.

Shenshen · 26-11-2012 5:35pm

sfwcork wrote: »

thats correct but there is also a % of roads where the speed limit is not fair and needs to reviewed.Even the government are admitting that

do you really think all gatso vans are in "Fair" Places where the speed limit is fair

Such as a number of regional roads having a limit of 80 kph despite them being so narrow and in such a bad state, they've got grass growing down their middle...

There's no point enforcing a speed limit that in itself is nothing short of suicidal.

highdef · 26-11-2012 5:39pm

Itzy wrote: »

Revenue stream all the way. The cunts nabbed me once, when they were hidden down a side road in the dark of night. Won't happen again, that I can guarentee.

Excellent, great to hear. I assume by saying that, you mean that you learnt your lesson and no longer make a conscious decision to break the law by speeding. One less speeder on the roads. If only there were more like you

MagicSean · 26-11-2012 5:39pm

Roman Square Sinner wrote: »

Mainly a revenue stream. If they are supposed to make our roads safer then..
Why are they not painted in an high visability colour, so people will see them, and slow down? lots of them are painted black and hidden to try and catch the driver out. Thats not really making our roads safer.

why are they put in wide safe stretchs of road, where there has never been a crash

All the new ones have high visibility markings.

They are parked on straight stretches so they have the propler angle and they are not a traffic hazard.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4 · 26-11-2012 5:44pm

MagicSean wrote: »

All the new ones have high visibility markings.

They are parked on straight stretches so they have the propler angle and they are not a traffic hazard.

30/40% of the ones I see are black. making them very hard to spot at night

I seen one in castlebaldwin in sligo, parked on the open stretch of road on the sligo town side of the village. The guy left his full beams on, anybody driving towards him had no idea it was a speed van. How is this going to slow drivers down

MagicSean · 26-11-2012 5:46pm

Roman Square Sinner wrote: »

30/40% of the ones I see are black. making them very hard to spot at night

I seen one in castlebaldwin in sligo, parked on the open stretch of road on the sligo town side of the village. The guy left his full beams on, anybody driving towards him had no idea it was a speed van. How is this going to slow drivers down

The private ones are high vis. They also have survey vans which are not. The Garda ones are large transits. Some are high vis, some are not.

SeaFields · 26-11-2012 5:51pm

Shenshen wrote: »

whenever a car driver spots one of these vans, they will drop whatever speed they were doing before, legal or not, and crawl by the van at around 30 kph.

This sort of behaviour is beyond stupid.

I see it all the time. For example yesterday travelling from Cork to Mallow fairly, poor visibility because of the rain. Most cars doing 70-80kph on a 100kph road. There was a car behind me almost came to a stop because we passed one of these vans. He was behind me one minute and a dot in the rearview mirror the next and yet no where near breaking the limit.

Idiot.

Shenshen · 26-11-2012 5:54pm

SeaFields wrote: »

This sort of behaviour is beyond stupid.

I see it all the time. Yesterday travelling from Cork to Mallow fairly poor visibility because of the rain. Most cars doing 70-80kph on a 100kph road. There was a car behind me almost came to a stop because we passed one of these vans. He was behind me one minute and a dot in the rearview mirror the next and yet no where near breaking the limit. Idiot.

I couldn't agree more, I've seen it more than once myself.
As I'm sure have the guards and the authorities.
So for them to put a van on a stretch of road with poor visibility would be utter madness.

The obvious downside is, of course, that this means that traffic on these roads is not monitored and controlled, and bad accidents will continue to happen.
Bit of a catch 22, really.

keithclancy · 26-11-2012 5:57pm

Not really since they brought in Penalty points.

Fines in Ireland are wicked low anyway, only 80 euro for 'speeding'

Heres an example of fines within City limits in the Netherlands:

http://www.tehardgereden.nl/boetes.php?intHoofdcategorieID=1&intMainID=5&intSubID=57&intOverzichtID=209

Category 1: motor vehicles, mopeds, disabled motor vehicles, microcars, agricultural tractors and motor vehicles with limited speed.

Category 2: trucks, buses and vehicles with trailers.
Category 1 2
exceeded to 4 km / h € 22.00 € 36.00
exceeded by 5 km / h € 27.00 € 42.00
exceeding 6 km / h € 32.00 € 49.00
exceeding 7 km / h € 37.00 € 57.00
excess of 8 km / h € 42.00 € 65.00
exceeded by 9 km / h € 48.00 € 73.00
exceeded by 10 km / h € 54.00 € 81.00
exceeded by 11 km / h € 61.00 € 89.00
exceeded by 12 km / h € 68.00 € 98.00
exceeded by 13 km / h € 75.00 € 108.00
exceeded by 14 km / h € 82.00 € 117.00
exceeded by 15 km / h € 89.00 € 127.00
exceeded by 16 km / h € 97.00 € 137.00
exceeded by 17 km / h € 105.00 € 148.00
exceeded by 18 km / h € 114.00 € 159.00
exceeded by 19 km / h € 123.00 € 170.00
exceeded by 20 km / h € 132.00 € 170.00
exceeded by 21 km / h € 142.00 € 194.00
exceeded by 22 km / h € 152.00 € 207.00
exceeded by 23 km / h € 162.00 € 218.00
exceeded by 24 km / h € 171.00 € 231.00
exceeded by 25 km / h € 183.00 € 245.00
exceeded by 26 km / h € 194.00 € 260.00
exceeded by 27 km / h € 206.00 € 274.00
exceeded by 28 km / h € 217.00 € 288.00
exceeded by 29 km / h € 228.00 € 302.00
exceeding 30 km / h € 241.00 € 318.00
overrun of 31 or more:
The penalty amount is determined on the basis of an individual decision of the Public Prosecutor.

On this page are the fines for speed on the road as at 01-01-2011 funds. Above amounts is still there? 6 - administration.

ScumLord · 26-11-2012 5:59pm

Melion wrote: »

Everyone knows where they are on that particular road.

I thought that was the point though, they're not necessarily out to catch people but to get them to slow down. If you know a stretch of road is going to have a speed camera on it you'll at least do the speed limit on that stretch of road. In the UK you just can't speed, they're watching you everywhere you go so people don't speed as much as here.

I went down to Cork recently and couldn't get over the amount of speed cameras, I was speeding past all of them but somehow didn't get a ticket, I thought I was going to lose my license. I wasn't much over the limit though as they'd positioned the camera on hills with over taking lanes (presumably to catch people trying to over take trucks with the limited overtaking opportunity).

Speeding vans should be very obvious and in areas were accidents happen. I think they should even put signs up to say there's a speeding van ahead so that traffic does the speed limit on that bad piece of road.

MagicSean · 26-11-2012 6:00pm

keithclancy wrote: »

Not really since they brought in Penalty points.

Fines in Ireland are wicked low anyway, only 80 euro for 'speeding'

Heres an example of fines within City limits in the Netherlands:

http://www.tehardgereden.nl/boetes.php?intHoofdcategorieID=1&intMainID=5&intSubID=57&intOverzichtID=209

I understand that there are a lot of irish getting quite a shock when they start driving in Oz. Our system is mild in comparison.

Bummer1234 · 26-11-2012 6:04pm

MagicSean wrote: »

And do they drive slower?

Always parked when I see them!!

kowloon · 26-11-2012 6:23pm

Couldn't find it but there was a priceless video of some announcement about changes to speeding laws and when whatever minister it was at the time said it wasn't a revenue stream a senior guard standing to the side did the :rolleyes: expression.

I know it's not much to go on, but does anyone remember this video doing the rounds?

Death and Taxes · 26-11-2012 6:34pm

MagicSean wrote: »

All the new ones have high visibility markings.

They are parked on straight stretches so they have the propler angle and they are not a traffic hazard.

Some of the older vans are still not in the bright new colours, and despite of the crap being peddled by the GS press office they are not just placed on stretches of roads which have a history of bad accidents.

When was the last time there was a bad accident on Mount Argus Road, or the road between Gormanstown and Julianstown. Truth is they are a revenue stream for the Government, whats worse they dont even make the roads safer as they dont detect dangerous/careless driving, use of mobiles, lack of lights etc.
I have no issue with the Traffic Corps enforcing all the rules , but these vans are just a money machine.:mad:

dj jarvis · 26-11-2012 6:35pm

kowloon wrote: »

Couldn't find it but there was a priceless video of some announcement about changes to speeding laws and when whatever minister it was at the time said it wasn't a revenue stream a senior guard standing to the side did the :rolleyes: expression.

I know it's not much to go on, but does anyone remember this video doing the rounds?

i also remember that clip , two FF blastards , and one says its not a revenue stram and the y look at each other and smirk like only a thieving FF blastard can
and these f2ckwits are going back up in the polls !!!! :mad:

anyone that thinks that these vans are not SOLELY for cash collection , then they are deluded
as they were introduced, we were informed that they would be placed in area where people have died before , well i have seen them regularly placed on the SAFEST part of the road , but they know there is more of a chance to catch someone going a few k over the limit

so is that saving lives or being complete blastrds ? i know which one it is

im going to look for that clip on you tube , if i find it , ill post the link

dj jarvis · 26-11-2012 6:42pm

here ya go , i have no idea how to set this up , but here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e5FjUuAGi8

Do you see Gatso vans/Speed Vans as a necessity or a revenue stream

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