Household charge

also why even bother installing water meters, or are the EU forcing us to do this? all that money could be spent actually renewing the leaking pipes! I believe metering is in order to promote that favorite of Irish words "FAIRNESS", funny how the politicians seem to care about it in certain areas and not others!

I read a td comment that the free allowance would be large enough that very few people would actually go over the allowance...

A minor, nitpicking point possibly, but --- I am expected to place all recyclable packaging in a recycling bag, for which I have to pay the local authority to whom I already pay an annual waste disposal charge. I am expected to wash that packaging before bagging it for collection. Soon I will have to pay for the water that I use to wash it.

Anyway, on the subject of household rates and water charges, I recall when I and my family lived and worked in the UK in a small south coast town. We paid rates on our smallish semi detached 3 bedroom house. The local authority provided water and sewage services.

Then came privatisation of water services and we became the "customers" of a regional private water utility. Very quickly I found that we still had house rates paid to the LA (and they, surprisingly, didn't drop), but now we had a separate water charge that dramatically increased every year. But we also then had a separate sewage charge, which included the cost of disposal of rain water from our roof. Having a well was no use as it was decreed that all water belonged to the regional company, wherever it was. If one had a well one still had to pay the water charge.

I tried demanding that if all water belonged to the company, then they must stop their bloody water falling on my roof so that I wouldn't have to pay them to take it away.:p Didn't work of course.

In a period of ten years or so I went from paying about £300 a year rates to £1,400 a year for rates, water, and sewage when I sold up and came home in 1994. The water companies, several owned by French parents, became very wealthy, but they still lost more water through leaks than they sold, and the justification for them on the grounds of environmental improvements became ludicrous -- their record of fines for environmental breaches became alarming. Unsurprisingly, their sole purpose was to make money, not to protect the environment.

So on the basis of that experience, let me offer a guess at what will happen here. A new state company, Irish Water (already planned) will be established, and a water services regulator (quango -- we MUST have more quangos) will appointed employing the great and good. The purpose of the new water company will be to centralise all water supply with a view to encouraging competition and eventual privatisation. The regulator will require the company's charges to be high in order to attract other competitors into the market (a-la ESB and electricity supply). This situation will stay in effect for at least ten years and more likely twenty.

New companies entering the market will lease pipe networks from the state company initially, until the regulator finally decides to release the state company and allow it to compete. It will then be bought by Veolia (French) and its residue will become Irish Water Networks. This will remain in control of the state so that all supply companies can continue to lease pipes. As a result no significant investment in new pipes or fixing leaks will take place (anyone who doubt that, consider our telephone network since privatisation and the massive leap forward in fibre optics and high speed broadband).

A point will then be reached where every household pays a household utility charge to a government that does not provide any utilities. A property tax based upon the notional rent for which a property could be let will also be introduced, but that of course will not be the dreaded "rates" lads. We wouldn't do that! We might make you pay twice for something you don't get, but we do need the money!

Water and sewage will be separately charged for by a regional and French owned water utility, and both must be paid irrespective of whether or not a property has its own well and septic tank. Charges will start low with a free issue of water sufficient for one shower per day and charged per cubic metre over that. However, the former will reduce year on year to become a free issue cupful while the charge will increase by at least 10% a year (in order to invest in the infrastructure that the water companies won't provide). The latter will be based upon the assumption that if a household consumes (say) 1.5 cubic metres of water a day then it must create that amount of sewage. That assessment will be increased by 10% to take account of the solids that have been introduced.

A further assessment will be made of how much rain water the utility company must dealt with. This will be based upon the ground area of the property, which will also, mysteriously, increase by 10% a year.

Within ten years, with a bit of luck and a following wind, every family will be paying a local authority at least twice for services it no longer supplies. It will be paying a water company to both supply and take away water at charges that are regulated at high levels in order to encourage "competition. Given my UK experience, and inflation over the years that followed, I sincerely believe that all of those charges will rapidly rise to at least €2,500 a year for every average household, and will do so in less than five years. Of course I can't support that with evidence as it is (somewhat cynical) crystal ball gazing. My only justification is that I have lived long enough to begin to understand just how politicians operate.

And to those in this thread who have said "You expect to pay for electricity and gas, and fuel for your car and food from the shop, so why shouldn't you pay for water?" (thus conveniently ignoring the fact that I already pay for water through my taxes), I would suggest: If I wished to I could do without electricity. I could use oil lamps or candles, and I could wash dishes by hand instead of in the dishwasher. I could do without gas and I could heat my house by lighting a fire of logs that are plentiful in my area. I could do without my car as I have two good legs, and at a push I could acquire a donkey. I am fortunate in owning a small patch of land around my house, and I could grow vegetables and keep a few chickens and a pig or two. I seem to recall that some ancestors managed that!

The one thing I cannot do without is water. I cannot live without it. Simple as. I could drill my own well of course, but the water wouldn't be treated and I would never know if it was potable, particularly if I also have a septic tank. That is why I expect my water to be supplied as a result of the taxes I pay to the state and not subject to a new charge by a private and profit making company whose interests are those of its shareholders rather than mine.

For all of these reasons I will oppose the current raft of highway robbery initiatives in any way that I can.:mad:

ART6 wrote: »

All this demonstrates is that the current government is just as good at cheating and lying as was the previous one. "If we are elected, no new taxes". "Oh, these are not taxes, they are charges."

They are all stealth TAXES. A household utility charge is a TAX. A pension funds levy is a TAX. They are taxes levied by politicians who are too evasive and dishonest to ever let the people really know what the gang that masquerades as a government really costs them. And it's happening because we cannot possibly let reckless bond investors in Germany lose a cent, can we?

I am bitterly angry about the whole deal, and I will oppose it in any way that I can including flat refusal to pay. I'll be damned if I will willingly pay these devils for the privilege of using something I own and for which I paid with already well taxed income, and I intend to shout at any b***dy TD I can get at.:mad:

Excellent post by this person.

A lot of this is to cover spin and useless guff around the costs of keeping the politicians and councillors on their salaries. There is a huge amount of waste there that could be dealt with before levying households to cover the costs of it all! Apart from the bailout stuff, there is a lot of the revenue they are trying to generate will go directly to financing the public reps.

What is the charge for??
If it is a property tax then call it a Tax
If it is a service charge, I don’t get any services
I already pay for water as I am on private supply with a meter and paid 1000 euro to join it
I don’t live in a town so don’t have the luxury of flushing the toilet and shipping the **** out to sea so I have to maintain a septic tank.
They are planning to put a charge on septic tanks also so I have no intention of paying a service charge to support dose in city and town.
Let those in the towns and cities pay for water, sewerage and street lighting first
It time rural Ireland told FG to **** off and I will be in court before I pay one cent of this charge

Deleted User wrote: »

What other option do we have? How do we force a change? Where do we start? How do we get enough of a consensus together to make something happen in a country where people talk all day but won't hit the streets in protest no matter what kind of crap is foisted on them?

Irish people dont do that , we just emirgrate, its what our governments and wealthy elite have been training us to do since pre famine days, shut up and go paddy

waffleman wrote: »

Seems it's only getting started - I have been talking to many people locally who are headin for Canada over the Summer. They've been on the dole for a few years now and don't see anything worth staying and fighting for and I can't blame them. With a whole raft of charges coming in to hammer everyone who works why would you bother stayin at all if you can get out. If ye don't want to shut up, work AND pay your taxes to see them wasted well we'll see ye next time there's a "boom".

what boom, that was all a lie, overspending, wasting, good time harries,