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Primary school college course and atheism

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  • 18-02-2012 10:16pm
    #1
    number10a
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭


    So, as I've mentioned on here a couple of times, I'm nearly finished the H. Dip. for primary school teaching. We have our online religion exam on Wednesday and I was going through the demo exam to make sure it works. Some of the questions that will be on it are actually shocking!! I cannot believe that a college in Ireland in 2012 is allowed to preach such shìt.

    I've attached two sample questions from the exam for your viewing pleasure. The answer that I will have to choose to get the marks for the first attachment is "True". And in the second attachment, asking which statement is false, I will have to choose the one about Hinduism. So apparently, the one about atheism is true.

    I am actually in shock. How can something that is so subjective and open to opinion be included in an exam in a modern college??? I could understand something like "Atheist humanism has produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed. Discuss." But actually putting a True/False option there?? There is no notable incident in history where someone actually went out and said "Oh those darn believers! I'll kill them all!!" I can think of plenty of examples where the reverse happened though.

    I knew what I was letting myself in for when deciding to train as a primary school teacher in Ireland, but I didn't think it was this bad. I had already made up my mind that I was leaving Ireland as soon as I'm qualified (for a lot of reasons, teaching of religion being a more minor one), but this just confirms it even more. Effectively, I'm expected to spout this shìte out to a child if I ever teach in a Catholic school. Unbelievable.

    /rant


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    #2
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    Just dot the i's and cross the t's and get your dip. Then go and teach in another country.


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    #3
    number10a
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭number10a


    eastbono wrote: »
    Just dot the i's and cross the t's and get your dip. Then go and teach in another country.

    Exactly what I'm going to do. Head down and get it done. But I'm actually in such shock that I had to vent. I basically have to admit that people like me are evil to get the best possible grade in this course.

    I had expected the course to include "atheism is bad, Catholicism is good" type stuff, so I was prepared, but not this extreme.


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    #4
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    number10a wrote: »
    Exactly what I'm going to do. Head down and get it done. But I'm actually in such shock that I had to vent. I basically have to admit that people like me are evil to get the best possible grade in this course.

    I had expected the course to include "atheism is bad, Catholicism is good" type stuff, so I was prepared, but not this extreme.

    I dont do religion.... not my thing or anti religion but had to reply to your post just keep the head down and qualify and good luck with your career in the future. Oh btw you are not evil... I would presume there are plenty more like you.


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    #5
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    Well, OP, you know everything about religion is either true or false. There are no metaphors grey areas.


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    #6
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    What. the. fuck.


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    #7
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Sorry to be direct but could you please name the college because that is a fucking disgrace!
    (If you have to wait until you graduate then please come back to this thread.:))


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    #8
    number10a
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭number10a


    I've no problem naming it. Just not sure if the mods would like it. It's Hibernia College.


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    #9
    swiftblade
    Registered Users Posts: 2,550 ✭✭✭swiftblade


    The first is so bad you would think it was a joke. :(


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    #10
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I'm not really seeing a problem with the second one. Hinduism could be argued to be as positive a force for change in (Hindu) society as Catholicism has (in Catholic society). Therefore it can be marked as false that atheism has a negative effect on society.

    Don't get me wrong, I am in no way defending the test. The sooner such religious teaching is gone from any place of learning the better.


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    #11
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    number10a wrote: »
    So, as I've mentioned on here a couple of times, I'm nearly finished the H. Dip. for primary school teaching. We have our online religion exam on Wednesday and I was going through the demo exam to make sure it works. Some of the questions that will be on it are actually shocking!! I cannot believe that a college in Ireland in 2012 is allowed to preach such shìt.
    Those questions are unbelievable.

    It's a demo though, right? They can't possibly represent what is actually asked?

    Seriously, is this something that has not come to light as it's big.


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    #12
    D4RK ONION
    Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    I went to Mary I myself, and while they do their best to shove Catholicism down your throat at every turn, I must say there was never any slander of other religious standpoints/beliefs/lack of; by the college in either the lectures or the courses.

    That's not to say that they were acknowledged or catered for, but there was never anything like that first question. That's bloody INSANE.

    As for teaching in this country, get used to being a massive hypocrite when it comes to doing the job you always wanted to do. Alive O is mentally numbing.


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    #13
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Dades wrote: »
    It's a demo though, right? They can't possibly represent what is actually asked?
    [/I]

    @OP If it's an online exam, do you mean at home? Any chance of capping the actual exam, just for curiosities sake?


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    #14
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Well, that answers something that has been bugging me for a while; what does ISAW do for a living?

    MrP


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    #15
    number10a
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭number10a


    kylith wrote: »
    I'm not really seeing a problem with the second one. Hinduism could be argued to be as positive a force for change in (Hindu) society as Catholicism has (in Catholic society). Therefore it can be marked as false that atheism has a negative effect on society.

    You thought about it the same way I did, that it could be argued that both Hinduism and Atheism have had positive effects on society. Any of this stuff could be argued in any direction as it is highly subjective and based on opinion, not fact. But my college-produced notes say differenty. The demo exam didn't tell me if I was right or wrong for specific questions (I got a very high mark overall), but using the notes as a reference, I am 99.9% sure that I'm correct for these two.

    In the notes themselves:
    What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives.

    They go on then to comment on how Hinduism is negative because of the belief in karma and that the poor must accept their destiny to be poor and accept that the upper classes are destined to be wealthy and powerful. Hmmmm....... A belief can have negative implications for the world?? Ban on condoms in AIDS-ridden parts of Africa, anyone???
    Dades wrote: »
    Those questions are unbelievable.

    It's a demo though, right? They can't possibly represent what is actually asked?

    Seriously, is this something that has not come to light as it's big.

    It is a demo. These questions may well not be asked. But, why have such controversial questions if you're not going to have them at all? Regardless, this shìte is all in the notes anyway, even if the questions were never asked. I saw it in the notes months ago, but quietly remained shocked. Having to tick the box in an exam is another matter entirely.


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    #16
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I must say those questions are pretty mental. I knew there was a pro Catholic bias, but this is insane!


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    #17
    krankykitty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭krankykitty


    Goes to show they don't want to encourage critical thinking in schools, if they think this is an appropriate exam question for those who will be teaching them.. I feel sorry for those teachers and children who don't see the world in black and white, true and false. Shocking stuff.

    Edit: OP, as they're so quick to judge other religions (and people of none), I wonder is there any questions in there about the effect of the Catholic church on the psyche of so many unfortunate people over the years, abuse victims, Magdalene inmates.. I'd guess not. Easier to blame the Hindi's and the baby eaters!


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    #18
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    number10a wrote: »
    this stuff could be argued in any direction as it is highly subjective and based on opinion, not fact. But my college-produced notes say differently.

    Indeed. “The trouble with the world”, said Bertrand Russell, “is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent full of doubt”.

    And as for this statement; "Islam is based on the identity of religion and society" - it makes no sense at all, its just a meaningless arrangement of words into a sentence :pac: Is it supposed to look clever and intellectual? (ie the kind of thing that might be expected in teacher training)

    This one; "Atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed" seems like incitement to hatred of "atheist humanists". Isn't President Michael D. Higgins one of them? I wonder what he would think of it?


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    #19
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    I doubt they'd dare to put the following on their MCQ, nor would they get way with it if they did:

    Which of the following statements is true?

    a) Christians believe the Koran is the word of God

    b) Judaism states that Jesus Christ is the son of God incarnate

    C) Followers of Islam have been responsible for the majority of terrorist attacks in the 21st century


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    #20
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    recedite wrote: »
    This one; "Atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed" seems like incitement to hatred of "atheist humanists". Isn't President Michael D. Higgins one of them? I wonder what he would think of it?
    I recall reading somewhere that President Higgins described himself as being Catholic, but not necessarily believing in heaven and hell.
    Not really sure what that entails, a 'cultural catholic' of sorts perhaps?

    I do find that statement re: 'atheist humanists' muddled at best. Are they really implying that Jo' Stalin practiced humanism?


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    #21
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I recall reading somewhere that President Higgins described himself as being Catholic, but not necessarily believing in heaven and hell.
    Not really sure what that entails, a 'cultural catholic' of sorts perhaps?

    I do find that statement re: 'atheist humanists' muddled at best. Are they really implying that Jo' Stalin practiced humanism?

    considering there are people in the buddhist forum going on about "secular buddhism" i dont know what anything is anymore


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    #22
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Good ol' totalitarian humanism...


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    #23
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Don't get me started on militant humanists....


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    #24
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I recall reading somewhere that President Higgins described himself as being Catholic, but not necessarily believing in heaven and hell.
    Not really sure what that entails, a 'cultural catholic' of sorts perhaps?
    Well, he asked for a humanist to be invited along to his inauguration ceremony, so he must have some sort of affinity. When listening to a politician's utterances, always remember that their primary goal is to be re elected.


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    #25
    hectorh
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭hectorh


    My jaw literally dropped. After a quick look through the course syllabus, these questions seem to be a slight departure from the stated aims of the module.

    "Inform students about the fundamental beliefs of different faiths, including the Roman Catholic doctrine, and explain how they are applied in the teaching of Religious and Ethical Education in primary school classes" Link

    Four of my friends are recent primary education graduates so it's difficult to shock me when it comes to our anachronistic education system but this... You would think the more hardline Catholics would be the most vocal about the need to immediately reform our education system. I suspect that the majority of graduates have no interest in teaching catholic doctrine.


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    #26
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I have an acquaintance studying primary school teaching and lives in fear of being 'outed' as an atheist. It's a really messed up system.


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    #27
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    number10a wrote: »
    The demo exam didn't tell me if I was right or wrong for specific questions (I got a very high mark overall), but using the notes as a reference, I am 99.9% sure that I'm correct for these two.

    Hang on , have you seen to answers to these questions ?

    Or are you offend on what you guess the answers are ?


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    #28
    LovelyLottie
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭LovelyLottie


    I did Hibernia several years ago and the assessment was different - no online exam, just a long written assignment. I'm quite surprised at those questions... i don't remember reading anything like that when i did it, but in fairness there may have been stuff like that in the notes, i just may have missed that bit :cool:

    In practice in a Catholic primary school, you would never slate any other religion or atheism, even if the kids happened to know what that was. You keep it upbeat and happy, it's all about our place in the world, belonging, being loved... You don't have to get into the nitty gritty, i don't anyway :)


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    #29
    Silver_525
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Silver_525


    Just came across this thread, i'm also doing that religion exam on wednesday and can't believe those questions!!

    I didn't even do the demo yet because judging on the (quick) glance I gave those religion notes I actually can't summon the energy for it!!

    Don't even get me started on the stuff I came across in Alive-o during tp. Seriously shocked aswell at how backward the college is in terms of religion. I'd say we grin and bear it til we're qualified then get to a country where their school systems are somewhat normal :D


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    #30
    D4RK ONION
    Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    Galvasean wrote: »
    I have an acquaintance studying primary school teaching and lives in fear of being 'outed' as an atheist. It's a really messed up system.

    I'm afraid that wont change after he/she gets a job. No one in my school knows I'm an atheist. I just have to put up and shut up.


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    #31
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    x219g.jpg


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