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Irish Law: Taking it easy on child sex offenders!

  • 24-09-2010 5:56pm
    #1
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    A few months back RTE's primetime done a shocking expose into the escalating world problem of child sexual abuse. Maybe some of you seen it. Unfortunately it is no longer available on the RTE player, but if you want to watch it, my best advice is to get in contact with RTE who may distribute you a copy. Here is a small snippet of information regarding this shocking progamme:

    http://www.rte.ie/about/pressreleases/2010/0518/figurespti180510.html
    Monday, 31st May, the final programme in the current series, Prime Time Investigates: Crimes Against Children - Evil Online, traces the online criminals who share images of child rape and abuse. Hundreds of thousands of child abuse images are created and circulated across the world and Edel McAllister reveals the alarming number of Irish people who take part in this evil practice and shows how widespread the downloading and sharing of child pornography is in this country. It also exposes the predators online who seek out children and pre-teens hoping to seduce them into sex.

    During the programme, prime time uncovered and revealed all the locations of where these predatory paedophiles dwell. The information gathered was submitted to the An Garda Siochana. The An Garda Siochana was unavailable for comment, but stated that they would be abiding by existing laws.
    In short nothing was done about it. Does this surprise you? It does not surprise me, particurarly when you examine the Irish Judical system's leniency in regards to these evil persons.

    Here is Irish Law Vs Fedaral Law. All Federal resources are located here. According to federal Law there is a minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years and up to a maximum of life imprisonment.

    FEDERAL LAW
    The following Federal resources are taken from here.
    http://www.projectsafechildhood.gov/news.htm

    "Anthony Quinn Steward pleaded guilty on Mar. 30, 2010, to possession of child pornography and was sentenced to 78 months in federal prison today by U.S. District Judge Michael H. Schneider".


    "Stephen R. Wigginton, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Illinois, announced today that on September 8, 2010, DAVID MONFRE, age 31, of Belleville, Illinois, was sentenced in U.S. District Court in East St. Louis, to 96 months imprisonment to be followed by supervised release".
    for life. MONFRE was also ordered to pay a $1,500 fine.".

    LAS VEGAS - "A convicted sex offender who lived in North Las Vegas and was found
    guilty in May of possessing and transmitting images and movies of child pornography over theInternet, has been sentenced to 15 years in federal prison, announced Daniel G. Bogden, UnitedStates Attorney for the District of Nevada".


    NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA - "TONY TEMPLET, 45, of Gretna, Louisiana, was entenced today in federal court before U. S. District Judge Mary Ann Vial Lemmon to ten (10)years (120 months) in prison for receipt of child pornography, announced U. S.Attorney Jim Letten".

    There are many more such cases.


    VS


    IRISH LAW
    http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/11_12/2006_12_20_Melia_HeadmasterGuilty.htm

    "A former primary school principal found in possession of 10,000 images of children as young as six having sex, has received a two-and-a-half year suspended jail sentence".

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1015/childporn.html

    "A 38-year-old former priest has been sentenced to two years in prison after pleading guilty to the possession of child pornography".

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0326/obrienk.html

    "A 44-year-old carpenter from Drogheda has been given a three-year suspended sentence at Galway Circuit Court for possession of child pornography".

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1218/ocearbhaillm.html

    "A former naval reserve officer and Eircom supervisor has been given a ten-month suspended sentence for the possession of 169 images of child pornography".

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1202/morphew.html

    "A 63-year-old man who operated a children's fun-park in Co Wicklow has been sentenced to six months in prison for down-loading and viewing 1,200 images of children being sexually abused".

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0207/ohallorank.html

    "A 41-year-old former Garda Sergeant has been jailed for two years for soliciting a woman to find a child for him for sex and for possession of child pornography".

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0310/pornography.html

    "A 41-year-old man who pleaded guilty to possessing 320 films and more than 2,800 images of child pornography has been given an 18-month suspended jail sentence".


    To be honest, I could produce thousands of more similar cases.
    Discuss: Why is Ireland so soft on predatory paedophiles and child sex offenders?
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    You will find that a lof of people in power are into having sex with children.


  • #3
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Oh hai.


  • #4
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brightest_Nite wrote: »
    A few months back RTE's primetime done a shocking expose into the escalating world problem of child sexual abuse. Maybe some of you seen it.

    Irish Teachers: Taking it easy on students!


  • #5
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    digme wrote: »
    You will find that a lof of people in power are into having sex with children.
    Unfortunately, I do not doubt one word you say.


  • #6
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    mikom wrote: »
    Irish Teachers: Taking it easy on students!
    "A former primary school principal found in possession of 10,000 images of children as young as six having sex, has received a two-and-a-half year suspended jail sentence".

    Is there anywhere you can buy assault rifles in Ireland?:D


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  • #7
    ILA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    Both the US and Irish judicial system are Common Law systems. The only difference between some of those cases you've listed it that we have no mandatory sentencing for child sex abuse.

    Obviously there are very few precedents applicable to the Irish legal jurisdiction and because Judges must practice stare decisis (legal principle by which judges are obliged to respect the precedents established by prior decisions), you will see a lot of similar sentences until either some judge departs from precedent or mandatory sentencing is introduced.

    Who's fault is that? Well, the Oireachtas (President, Dail Eireann and Seanad), which is the only body in the State with the power to enact legislation, such as mandatory sentencing. It's already evident that some members of the Oireachtas have drinking problems, so we can only guess what other problems they have.


  • #8
    charlemont
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭charlemont


    the same judge that gave a well known family chef a sentence of 240 hours of community service and ordered him to pay €40,000 to a children's charity in Calcutta for downloading child porn images actually gave me 10 days in prison for a half ounce of hash... madness..

    he refused to view these images instead saying " its no worse than you would find on the top shelf of easons ", but its not true, its obviously vile as one of the poor gardai that had to view that filth had to get counselling...

    ever notice how people arrested for rape or other sexual offences get bail in most cases...


  • #9
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    ILA wrote: »
    Both the US and Irish judicial system are Common Law systems. The only difference between some of those cases you've listed it that we have no mandatory sentencing for child sex abuse.

    Obviously there are very few precedents applicable to the Irish legal jurisdiction and because Judges must practice stare decisis (legal principle by which judges are obliged to respect the precedents established by prior decisions), you will see a lot of similar sentences until either some judge departs from precedent or mandatory sentencing is introduced.

    Who's fault is that? Well, the Oireachtas (President, Dail Eireann and Seanad), which is the only body in the State with the power to enact legislation, such as mandatory sentencing. It's already evident that some members of the Oireachtas have drinking problems, so we can only guess what other problems they have.
    Thank you for your post. Very informative. And I agree, these sick individuals come from all walks of life and professions.


  • #10
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    charlemont wrote: »
    the same judge that gave a well known family chef a sentence of 240 hours of community service and ordered him to pay €40,000 to a children's charity in Calcutta for downloading child porn images actually gave me 10 days in prison for a half ounce of hash... madness..

    he refused to view these images instead saying " its no worse than you would find on the top shelf of easons ", but its not true, its obviously vile as one of the poor gardai that had to view that filth had to get counselling...

    ever notice how people arrested for rape or other sexual offences get bail in most cases...
    That judges name is judge patwell in cork <snip>


  • #11
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    charlemont wrote: »
    the same judge that gave a well known family chef a sentence of 240 hours of community service and ordered him to pay €40,000 to a children's charity in Calcutta for downloading child porn images actually gave me 10 days in prison for a half ounce of hash... madness..

    he refused to view these images instead saying " its no worse than you would find on the top shelf of easons ", but its not true, its obviously vile as one of the poor gardai that had to view that filth had to get counselling...

    ever notice how people arrested for rape or other sexual offences get bail in most cases...
    I would imagine with the constant stream of nonsense in the world, that this evil practice, in the future, will be deemed natural and normal. and the people that aren't abusing children will be the ones cited with mental disorders.
    Nobody answered me where I can buy assault rifles in Ireland, lol:D


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  • #12
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    Brightest_Nite wrote: »
    I would imagine with the constant stream of nonsense in the world, that this evil practice, in the future, will be deemed natural and normal. and the people that aren't abusing children will be the ones cited with mental disorders.
    Nobody answered me where I can buy assault rifles in Ireland, lol:D

    Actually, its fast heading in the other direction. It was a far more "normal" practice in days gone by than it is now. Romans/Greeks/Middle East etc.
    If anything conditions have improved, and it is probably less prevalent with all the attention. However its also had a detrimental effect on the general lives of children due to parents being scared of their own shadows now and keeping their kids under lock and key (no Fritzl jokes please).
    Nothing brings the nutjobs out like a pedo hunt.


  • #13
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Potentially libelous posts edited/removed.


  • #14
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    This bastard has been doing it for years and has made countless attempts to get near children by setting up websites,fake casting agencies and photographic clubs.

    In addition he attempted to report the owner of the website about him to the police for possesing child pornography himself.

    Peadophiles arent sick,they are calculated and cunning.


  • #15
    Waylon Deep Rose
    Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭ Waylon Deep Rose


    I am outraged. srsly


  • #16
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,490 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Sound Familiar Yet?


  • #17
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    America's response is to simply throw everyone in prison. Hell, in some states you can get life in prison for petty theft (3 strikes rule).
    It hasn't done anything to help their crime rate. Criminals don't get better in prison. In fact, they get worse.

    Ireland's approach to most crime is to try rehabilitate the offender, and give a 2nd chance to those genuinely sorry for their crimes and who are trying their best to become good citizens.

    The people who get these suspended sentences are usually convicted of 'lesser offences' (I use that for lack of a better term). There are usually severe conditions associated with these suspended sentences, including successful completion of 2-4 year therapy programmes in places like the Granada Institute, restrictions on movements, unannounced & frequent visits by Gardai, restrictions on employment & contact with children etc.

    Recidivism rates in Ireland for sexual offenders who have completed these special therapy programmes is very very low. For those that go to prison and are released, the rate is higher. Judges therefore tend to lean towards rehabilitation rather than retribution.

    Note: I know of the above as fact as I have a friend who is a therapist for child sex offenders. She's changed my view regarding all sexual offenders quite a bit. It's extremely complex, and the average Joe can't even begin to understand it.

    One could also argue that these people have a mental illness, and therefore 'deserve' treatment more than punishment.

    I do think we are too lenient here, but I do understand the reasons for it.


  • #18
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    Overheal wrote: »
    Sound Familiar Yet?
    Your inconsistencies at the bottom of your post really show how screwed up this entire system truly is.

    Here is more: Make of it what you will.
    434 refugee kids go missing from Garda run "care homes"
    http://www.missingpersons-ireland.freepress-freespeech.com/300.refugees.htm
    :mad:Ever get the feeling, that they are all just sitting back laughing at us all:mad:





  • #19
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    Jumpy wrote: »
    Actually, its fast heading in the other direction. It was a far more "normal" practice in days gone by than it is now. Romans/Greeks/Middle East etc.
    If anything conditions have improved, and it is probably less prevalent with all the attention. However its also had a detrimental effect on the general lives of children due to parents being scared of their own shadows now and keeping their kids under lock and key (no Fritzl jokes please).
    Nothing brings the nutjobs out like a pedo hunt.
    The clock of life has a pendulum that swings back and forwards.


  • #20
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    Degsy wrote: »
    This bastard has been doing it for years and has made countless attempts to get near children by setting up websites,fake casting agencies and photographic clubs.

    In addition he attempted to report the owner of the website about him to the police for possesing child pornography himself.

    Peadophiles arent sick,they are calculated and cunning.
    On the contrary, they possess severe mental disorders, but yes...some are extremely intelligent in their craft.


  • #21
    up for anything
    Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭up for anything


    At the time that a 17 year old girl went missing from HSE care while waiting to go to court on prostitution charges and not having a passport there was an article in the Kilkenny People about 17 (non-national) girls in care, from the ages of 11-17, being taken on a picnic by the HSE and a huge number of them, something like 11 went missing while on the picnic. I'm sorry I didn't keep the article or take more notice of it. At the time I remember thinking that if 11 Irish girls went missing there would have been ructions.


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  • #22
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I am outraged. srsly

    Don't read this:mad:
    http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2010/feb/14/gardai-used-honey-trap-in-gay-sex-probe/

    "
    Paul Farrell (44), of Eaton Green, Rathcoole, Co Dublin, was last week given a two-year suspended sentence for possession of child porn images on his laptop. He was the third man convivted in relation to a major probe launched when it emerged that a 14-year-old from north Dublin arranged to meet several men for sex he contacted on an international gay website in 2007.



    Two other men, a garda and a civil servant – who were exchanging emails and arranging to meet up with the teenager to have sex – were not charged with soliciting the child for sex because legislation outlawing the sexual 'grooming' of children was not in existence at that time".


  • #23
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    America's response is to simply throw everyone in prison. Hell, in some states you can get life in prison for petty theft (3 strikes rule).
    It hasn't done anything to help their crime rate. Criminals don't get better in prison. In fact, they get worse.

    Ireland's approach to most crime is to try rehabilitate the offender, and give a 2nd chance to those genuinely sorry for their crimes and who are trying their best to become good citizens.

    The people who get these suspended sentences are usually convicted of 'lesser offences' (I use that for lack of a better term). There are usually severe conditions associated with these suspended sentences, including successful completion of 2-4 year therapy programmes in places like the Granada Institute, restrictions on movements, unannounced & frequent visits by Gardai, restrictions on employment & contact with children etc.

    Recidivism rates in Ireland for sexual offenders who have completed these special therapy programmes is very very low. For those that go to prison and are released, the rate is higher. Judges therefore tend to lean towards rehabilitation rather than retribution.

    Note: I know of the above as fact as I have a friend who is a therapist for child sex offenders. She's changed my view regarding all sexual offenders quite a bit. It's extremely complex, and the average Joe can't even begin to understand it.

    One could also argue that these people have a mental illness, and therefore 'deserve' treatment more than punishment.

    I do think we are too lenient here, but I do understand the reasons for it.

    Rehabilatation????????????????????????????

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10735857


  • #24
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    up for anything wrote: »
    At the time that a 17 year old girl went missing from HSE care while waiting to go to court on prostitution charges and not having a passport there was an article in the Kilkenny People about 17 (non-national) girls in care, from the ages of 11-17, being taken on a picnic by the HSE and a huge number of them, something like 11 went missing while on the picnic. I'm sorry I didn't keep the article or take more notice of it. At the time I remember thinking that if 11 Irish girls went missing there would have been ructions.

    In the 1980's,the HSE [I have been informed that it was not the HSE, one user was correct, it was a district health board] were responsible for photographing and fondling naked children in my local schools classroom. The teachers sent letters home to all the poor familys in the locale, feeding them nonsense about examing for child development and that they would have to sign the form.They said it was in the best interests of the child
    The children ware taken one by one up behind a partition located in the classroom and made to strip naked and walk foward and then upon reaching a certain point return facewards and walk back to the teacher and hse representative [maybe a fake representative]. They were photographed and fondled. All of the other little children sat in the same room eating their apples and bread talking about scooby doo.


  • #25
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    Brightest_Nite wrote: »
    Rehabilatation????????????????????????????

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10735857

    Well, you're not likely to ever hear about successful rehabilitations are you?
    Of course it doesn't work for everyone...psychology isn't that advanced.


  • #26
    Brightest_Nite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Brightest_Nite


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    Well, you're not likely to ever hear about successful rehabilitations are you?
    Of course it doesn't work for everyone...psychology isn't that advanced.
    If society focused more on rehabilatating victims/survivors of crime and punishing criminals, the world might take a step forward to becoming a better place.
    Psychology is just people giving opinions. We're all psychologists.
    In the case of Jeffery Dahmer [the human cannibal] one psychologist ruled him sane, another ruled insane. I guess psychologists differ. What creates that difference, their opinion. Either that or 50% of them are liars.
    In any criminal case where a psychologist is called in to give evidence, he/she will always kick off by stating "It is in my opinion that........."

    Opinions are like assholes, we all have one.:D


  • #27
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    The lady seriously doth protest too much, dude...


  • #28
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    I'm shocked to see such a post in after hours on such a topic. I have done a small amount of work in the area myself. The topic is such a powerful and emotional one that it is rare to hear an opinion like below. People have to remember court ordered treatment will do nothing unless the offender themselves want to change. On this point it is similar to court ordered treatment for addiction or any other psychological/psychiatric disorder. There is no guarantee on a successful outcome, however, personally I in favour of treatment.
    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    America's response is to simply throw everyone in prison. Hell, in some states you can get life in prison for petty theft (3 strikes rule).

    Ireland's approach to most crime is to try rehabilitate the offender, and give a 2nd chance to those genuinely sorry for their crimes and who are trying their best to become good citizens.

    The people who get these suspended sentences are usually convicted of 'lesser offences' (I use that for lack of a better term). There are usually severe conditions associated with these suspended sentences, including successful completion of 2-4 year therapy programmes in places like the Granada Institute, restrictions on movements, unannounced & frequent visits by Gardai, restrictions on employment & contact with children etc.

    Recidivism rates in Ireland for sexual offenders who have completed these special therapy programmes is very very low. For those that go to prison and are released, the rate is higher. Judges therefore tend to lean towards rehabilitation rather than retribution.

    Note: I know of the above as fact as I have a friend who is a therapist for child sex offenders. She's changed my view regarding all sexual offenders quite a bit. It's extremely complex, and the average Joe can't even begin to understand it.

    One could also argue that these people have a mental illness, and therefore 'deserve' treatment more than punishment.

    I do think we are too lenient here, but I do understand the reasons for it.


  • #29
    looneytoon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭looneytoon


    5 weeks ago i reported my partner for sexually abusing my daughter, still he walks about without a care in the world and i feel i should never have reported it.
    I can't name him or give any details on this but reading this thread i feel we have no hope...


  • #30
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    looneytoon wrote: »
    5 weeks ago i reported my partner for sexually abusing my daughter, still he walks about without a care in the world and i feel i should never have reported it.
    I can't name him or give any details on this but reading this thread i feel we have no hope...


    Sorry to hear that.

    Maybe contact the Gardai again to follow up on what they plan to do.

    This isn't the appropriate place to discuss it.

    Good luck.


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