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Call for State schools to accommodate Islamic beliefs

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24567…13

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    #32
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    rocoso wrote: »
    its so terrible ....if some of european people want to go to asia we would be in danger of beheading with no rights and our governments have allowed us to become engulfed with people who want western democraticy and will accept every thing for nothing from us....in other words come to owr country and you will need no more for anything

    Sorry, would you mind explaining that?


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    #33
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    The muslims don't celebrate Christian holidays,in fact they seen to detest them. So he's a bit bias.


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    #34
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Muslims have no intention of integration, they are pretty clear about it! they mostly hate non Muslims and all believe that the day will come where Allah will come back and lead them to murder all Jews and non believers.


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    #35
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    gallag wrote: »
    Muslims have no intention of integration, they are pretty clear about it! they mostly hate non Muslims and all believe that the day will come where Allah will come back and lead them to murder all Jews and non believers.

    Funny that

    The 3 Muslim lads i know don't think like that, Or maybe they are just acting nice until the day comes they are ordered to kill me :rolleyes:


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    #36
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gallag wrote: »
    Muslims have no intention of integration, they are pretty clear about it! they mostly hate non Muslims and all believe that the day will come where Allah will come back and lead them to murder all Jews and non believers.

    Actually, it's the prophet Jesus (not Allah) that they reckon will return and slaughter the non-believers. Which would place them in the same territory as Christians - who believe exactly the same thing.
    "Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears ought to hear." (Matt 13:40-43)


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    #37
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Yep.

    Integration is the least of the issues covered by the clips.

    And yet you were responding to a post which was entirely about integrating into host countries.


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    #38
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭donaghs


    alastair wrote: »
    You are aware that Carnita Matthews, the woman you're referencing, is an Australian-born woman, and hasn't emigrated anywhere that would require her to integrate?

    Again, change the wording and there are still similar underlying principles. e.g. If in the 1960s the Maharishi came to the UK and demanded that everyone start adapting their laws and beliefs to his - or if instead UK "Maharishi" converts starting requesting the same.

    Of course Carnita seems to have other issues. Mainly not believing the rules of the road apply to her.


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    #39
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    donaghs wrote: »
    Again, change the wording and there are still similar underlying principles. e.g. If in the 1960s the Maharishi came to the UK and demanded that everyone start adapting their laws and beliefs to his - or if instead UK "Maharishi" converts starting requesting the same.

    Of course Carnita seems to have other issues. Mainly not believing the rules of the road apply to her.

    Carnita is an arse, but the point is that she's not an arse on the back of a refusal to integrate, but rather on her own home-grown idiocy. Any group has the right to lobby for legal or social change, including religious groups, and whether they're 'indigenous', or 'foreign' is besides the point. Given that society is always changing, and cultural and legal norms evolve, it's rather blinkered to imagine that there's some line in the sand that we can never cross.

    Disclaimer - I'm not advocating that the right to lobby for social change on the back of religious belief has anything to do with the merits of the specific changes requested. It's just the principle of 'that's not how we do things, and we never will' is as dogmatic as some of the religious beliefs seeking change/accomodation.


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    #40
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Funny that

    The 3 Muslim lads i know don't think like that, Or maybe they are just acting nice until the day comes they are ordered to kill me :rolleyes:

    ask them? If they don't believe that then they are not muslim! I recently spent a lot of time reading a Islam forum, just like boards.ie only for Muslims and I am afraid most Muslim's on the site relish the prospect of killing the non believers. your muslim "friends" will of course not convey this to you because they are trying to fly undercover and overtake every country in the world and spread their religion.

    here is an interesting insight into there warped views. http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?414761-hadith-on-jews-tree

    also this one genuinely disturbed me
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?345019-60-Ways-To-Keep-Your-Husband%92s-Love
    I suppose being taught that women and me are equal makes this seem a dangerous attitude to invite into our home, the scary thing is the female posts that seem to accept their second place in society, I would fear for my daughter in a Muslim society.

    that whole forum offers a really interesting insight into the muslim world, I have spend two days reading it a can come to the conclusion that moderate Islam is very much in the minority.

    I recommend to anybody who believes that Muslims could peacefully coexist with the western world to go into the online muslim world and research it, there are lots of muslim forums, chat rooms etc and you can see for yourself. I find this a quite effective way to form an opinion, for example if someone said to me "the Irish are all IRA supporters and hate the British" I could spend a day reading Ireland's largest forum and soon come the correct conclusion that only a small minority believe this.

    Knock yourselves out!
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-Ummah-Lounge


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    #41
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    gallag wrote: »
    ask them? If they don't believe that then they are not muslim! I recently spent a lot of time reading a Islam forum, just like boards.ie only for Muslims and I am afraid most Muslim's on the site relish the prospect of killing the non believers. your muslim "friends" will of course not convey this to you because they are trying to fly undercover and overtake every country in the world and spread their religion.

    here is an interesting insight into there warped views. http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?414761-hadith-on-jews-tree

    also this one genuinely disturbed me
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?345019-60-Ways-To-Keep-Your-Husband%92s-Love
    I suppose being taught that women and me are equal makes this seem a dangerous attitude to invite into our home, the scary thing is the female posts that seem to accept their second place in society, I would fear for my daughter in a Muslim society.

    that whole forum offers a really interesting insight into the muslim world, I have spend two days reading it a can come to the conclusion that moderate Islam is very much in the minority.

    I recommend to anybody who believes that Muslims could peacefully coexist with the western world to go into the online muslim world and research it, there are lots of muslim forums, chat rooms etc and you can see for yourself. I find this a quite effective way to form an opinion, for example if someone said to me "the Irish are all IRA supporters and hate the British" I could spend a day reading Ireland's largest forum and soon come the correct conclusion that only a small minority believe this.

    Knock yourselves out!
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-Ummah-Lounge

    Soooooooo

    A billion Muslims in the world but the few on a forum must mean that's how all Muslims feel? Despite what you may think i will go with my gut feeling and believe that the men i have known for almost 20 years are not really planning on beheading me when i turn my back.


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    #42
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    alastair wrote: »
    Actually, it's the prophet Jesus (not Allah) that they reckon will return and slaughter the non-believers. Which would place them in the same territory as Christians - who believe exactly the same thing.
    Can you find me any online conversations happening showing Christians relishing the prospect of murdering the non believers? what if the bible also has some ridiculous nonsense in it, the Christians are not as hard core with taking all this crap literally, at least not in the last few decades.


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    #43
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gallag wrote: »
    Can you find me any online conversations happening showing Christians relishing the prospect of murdering the non believers? what if the bible also has some ridiculous nonsense in it, the Christians are not as hard core with taking all this crap literally, at least not in the last few decades.

    Sounds like you're making a lot of excuse there. Lots of Christians are fully onboard with the literal narrative of the Second Coming/Armageddon/Rapture.


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    #44
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Soooooooo

    A billion Muslims in the world but the few on a forum must mean that's how all Muslims feel? Despite what you may think i will go with my gut feeling and believe that the men i have known for almost 20 years are not really planning on beheading me when i turn my back.

    just most of the billion that have the ability to get online seem to be pretty hard core, surly they would not be so over represented? how do you explain this? i.e if you read boards.ie for a few days could you not find out a lot about the Irish? mostly secular, mostly pro European, most like alcohol and chipper etc etc I can read any of the large muslim forums and come to the conclusion that they will never integrate with the west, believe women are second class etc etc


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    #45
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gallag wrote: »
    just most of the billion that have the ability to get online seem to be pretty hard core, surly they would not be so over represented? how do you explain this? i.e if you read boards.ie for a few days could you not find out a lot about the Irish? mostly secular, mostly pro European, most like alcohol and chipper etc etc I can read any of the large muslim forums and come to the conclusion that they will never integrate with the west, believe women are second class etc etc

    Maybe you should consider that equating a national forum with a religious one isn't the best start for drawing equivalences? Or that you've any real insight to any billion people's perspective on the world?


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    #46
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    alastair wrote: »
    Sounds like you're making a lot of excuse there. Lots of Christians are fully onboard with the literal narrative of the Second Coming/Armageddon/Rapture.

    show me! I can find you lots of threads full of muslim hoping they get a chance to be part of the mass slaughter of the Jews and kaffir. where are these Christians hoping to commit mass murder? most of the believe they will just peacefully flote of into the sky leaving the murdering behind, did you read any of the large Islam forum yet? can you not see a fundamental difference with modern Christians and Muslims?


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    #47
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    alastair wrote: »
    Maybe you should consider that equating a national forum with a religious one isn't the best start for drawing equivalences? Or that you've any real insight to any billion people's perspective on the world?

    Ok then, find me a christian forum that holds majority views that most western people would find abhorrent.


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    #48
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    alastair wrote: »
    And yet you were responding to a post which was entirely about integrating into host countries.

    And contributing to a thread on a slightly broader perspective.......the requirement for non-Islamic administrations to "accomodate" Islamic mores.

    I actually feel this Australian case merits a thread of its own....(Mods perhaps ?) :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #49
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    All the Islam forums are full of views like this
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?417769-Brothers-wife

    basically the majority view of Muslims living in the west is that it's wrong for a Muslim to marry a non muslim and should divorce even if children are involved, and I quote

    "It's worse for them to live together and engage in major sins than the child growing up without a parent. 

    As for what should they do, it's pretty clear. He can't stay with an atheist."


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    #50
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    gallag wrote: »
    just most of the billion that have the ability to get online seem to be pretty hard core, surly they would not be so over represented? how do you explain this? i.e if you read boards.ie for a few days could you not find out a lot about the Irish? mostly secular, mostly pro European, most like alcohol and chipper etc etc I can read any of the large muslim forums and come to the conclusion that they will never integrate with the west, believe women are second class etc etc

    So let's say out of a BILLION Muslims, 50% have internet access, That's 500,000,000 people. Can you show me the forum that has 500 million unique acconts and all are advocating murder?


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    #51
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    gallag wrote: »
    All the Islam forums are full of views like this
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?417769-Brothers-wife

    basically the majority view of Muslims living in the west is that it's wrong for a Muslim to marry a non muslim and should divorce even if children are involved, and I quote

    "It's worse for them to live together and engage in major sins than the child growing up without a parent. 

    As for what should they do, it's pretty clear. He can't stay with an atheist."

    Wasn't so long ago that a Catholic marrying a Protestant in this country could get you tarred and feathered.


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    #52
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gallag wrote: »
    Ok then, find me a christian forum that holds majority views that most western people would find abhorrent.

    You haven't actually presented a muslim forum that holds majority views that western people would find abhorrent. Just saying.


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    #53
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So let's say out of a BILLION Muslims, 50% have internet access, That's 500,000,000 people. Can you show me the forum that has 500 million unique acconts and all are advocating murder?

    No, but I can show you that the majority of the ones online do, is that not good enough? and if not why do you think the moderates are so overwhelmingly under represented? is it just a coincidence that most Muslim's that go to muslim forums, boards or chat rooms seem to hold views that are abhorrent to western values?


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    #54
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Wasn't so long ago that a Catholic marrying a Protestant in this country could get you tarred and feathered.

    thank god we have evolved past that and it's not the view of the majority in our society today!


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    #55
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    alastair wrote: »
    You haven't actually presented a muslim forum that holds majority views that western people would find abhorrent. Just saying.
    But I did!
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-Ummah-Lounge


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    #56
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    gallag wrote: »
    No, but I can show you that the majority of the ones online do, is that not good enough? and if not why do you think the moderates are so overwhelmingly under represented? is it just a coincidence that most Muslim's that go to muslim forums, boards or chat rooms seem to hold views that are abhorrent to western values?

    How are you showing me the "majority of the ones"? You are showing what a few idiots on a forum think. Are you saying that the comments in AH are a positive reflection of Irish society?


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    #57
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    gallag wrote: »
    Ok then, find me a christian forum that holds majority views that most western people would find abhorrent.

    Not sure about Christian but there was stormfront and I'm sure things like the BNP and the EDL would hardly be complimentary about Islam and Muslims in general!

    Probably a few diehard Republican and Loyalist sites that took to kindly to visitors of the wrong faith!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #58
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    gallag wrote: »
    Show me! I can find you lots of threads full of muslim hoping they get a chance to be part of the mass slaughter of the Jews and kaffir. Where are these Christians hoping to commit mass murder? Most of them believe they will just peacefully float off into the sky leaving the murdering behind, did you read any of the large Islam forum yet? Can you not see a fundamental difference with modern Christians and Muslims?

    It's probably just as well the Internet did'nt exist in the 15th/16th Centuries or they'd have been reading tales of Christian Crusades against the unbelievers too.

    Its disturbingly obvious that large chunks of modern Islam appears to be smack bang in the middle of what they believe to be theirCrusade.

    The pertinient point for me is,back in the 1500's knowledge,for the average person,was very difficult to accquire and jealously guarded,which allowed the more flamboyant Lunatics to hold sway over local populations.

    Today however,knowledge,on almost every topic, is freely available to anybody with the hunger to accquire it,which one might think would reduce the power of the Loonies....it certainly has in Christian sectors,but strangely,it appears to have had the opposite effect in Islamic circles.

    So,it's looking as if,rather than maturing and developing,over the intervening 500 years as Christianity has,mainstream Islam has remained firmly rooted in a combatitive and violent past.

    Education,particularly exposure to modernity,can only serve to dilute the nuttier aspects of,what appears to be mainstream Islam,as it has done with Catholicism for example.

    Which may give a better understanding of why Dr.Selim might wish to keep this Western Educational Modernity from influencing his flock ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #59
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    And contributing to a thread on a slightly broader perspective.......the requirement for non-Islamic administrations to "accomodate" Islamic mores.

    I actually feel this Australian case merits a thread of its own....(Mods perhaps ?) :)

    We already have 2 threads on asylum and refugees which often are linked to concerns about immigration and Islam. This thread is fine, we don't want to get over run with immigration threads, now do we? ;)

    3 threads is enough for everybody's pro and anti immigration needs!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #60
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Religious fundamentalism is a major threat to our way of life.

    Our Catholic Taliban-lite regime ruled here for ages and we are only now ready to shake their shackles.

    We need to take all religions out of the schools immediately.

    Only by doing this can we prevent Muslims blocking the integration of their children into the general Irish community, by opening their own schools.

    Muslim schools are the first step to fundamentalism and radicalism.
    Integration is the best method of reducing the influence of the nutjobs.


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    #61
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gallag wrote: »
    But I did!
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-Ummah-Lounge

    'Fraid not. The majority of views there are pretty unremarkable.


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