Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Gumbo · 31-03-2014 9:20pm

summereire wrote: »

Thanks, I will be but am keen to do the research first. As the building is partially completed and has been in use for a few decades, the question is how to regularise that and expand it- hence the possible options I listed. Is there anywhere where the process for this is outlined- either in the form of a guide or any tips to what legislation particularly deals with this?

Retention for what's on site at the moment making clear what was granted previously maybe?

summereire · 31-03-2014 9:40pm

kceire wrote: »

Retention for what's on site at the moment making clear what was granted previously maybe?

Thanks. In this scenario would the additional bit to be completed, which was granted full planning in the distant past but never built, be a totally separate application or can you apply for retention of the percentage that was granted planning and built along with permission to build the bit that was granted but never built in the same application? There is nothing whatsoever built that wasn't granted planning, but just not everything that was granted was built, that's what's confusing me.

sydthebeat · 31-03-2014 9:49pm

summereire wrote: »

Thanks. In this scenario would the additional bit to be completed, which was granted full planning in the distant past but never built, be a totally separate application or can you apply for retention of the percentage that was granted planning and built along with permission to build the bit that was granted but never built in the same application? There is nothing whatsoever built that wasn't granted planning, but just not everything that was granted was built, that's what's confusing me.

confusing everyone :P

as far as i have been made aware.....

You cannot 'take up' certain aspects of a planing permission. it must be all or nothing.
so in the case where some work has been carried out and not all, i would claim that it makes ALL the work undertaken in that permission unauthorised and in need of retention.

summereire · 31-03-2014 10:08pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

confusing everyone :P

as far as i have been made aware.....

You cannot 'take up' certain aspects of a planing permission. it must be all or nothing.
so in the case where some work has been carried out and not all, i would claim that it makes ALL the work undertaken in that permission unauthorised and in need of retention.

Thanks, yeah I'll obviously need help to put the application together so will confirm it all then, but I'm still at the conceptual stage so am trying to understand the process.

If retention is then needed for what's there and in use, what would be the process for the additional bits that we'd like to build? Is that a completely separate application, or can retention and planning for further development be gotten in the same application considering its the same building?

sydthebeat · 31-03-2014 10:30pm

It's a "retain and complete" application, no problem at all putting them together.

summereire · 31-03-2014 11:55pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

It's a "retain and complete" application, no problem at all putting them together.

Great- thanks for that. Presumably then on the planning application form (quoted below) it's possible to tick permission AND permission for retention, and reference the previous planning grant along with drawings showing what was built from that and what is to be completed:

"3. Type of planning permission (please tick appropriate box):
[ ] Permission
[ ] Permission for retention
[ ] Outline Permission
[ ] Permission consequent on Grant of Outline Permission"

sydthebeat · 01-04-2014 7:44am

Yes it is, but i would stress, as others have done, to get professional advice.

You should also definitely talk to your local planner and as their about as to how to frame the application.

It is not unusual for planners to have very wildly ranging opinions on different matters.

TMC99 · 02-04-2014 6:12pm

When applying for planning for an extension to an existing property with an existing working septic tank (which I'm not touching/changing) do I need to supply a Site Suitability Assessment for On-site Wastewater Treatment with the application? Or is that only required if I am changing the tank / new build ?

sydthebeat · 02-04-2014 6:38pm

TMC99 wrote: »

When applying for planning for an extension to an existing property with an existing working septic tank (which I'm not touching/changing) do I need to supply a Site Suitability Assessment for On-site Wastewater Treatment with the application? Or is that only required if I am changing the tank / new build ?

Generally no, but what lots of councils will look for is a report from a "suitable indemnified person" as to the suitability of the system to take the purposed extra loading.

This may or may not require site testing.

TMC99 · 02-04-2014 6:45pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Generally no, but what lots of councils will look for is a report from a "suitable indemnified person" as to the suitability of the system to take the purposed extra loading.

This may or may not require site testing.

Thanks - so I guess ask the council to start with - CE in this case.

Chisler2 · 02-04-2014 7:23pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

If the house is not habitable, the use has been 'extinguished' and you need planning permission to reinstate.

What are the criteria for "habitable" in terms of amenity and length unoccupied? The +200-year-old cottage I'm restoring never had electricity or plumbing. Nevertheless it was tenanted, slept-in and cooked-in (traditional large open fire) until recently.

What constitutes "dereliction" as distinct from uninhabitable? Does a dwelling need to be registered on the local county council's list of derelict buildings to have that designation? What proportion must remain intact for it to be considered "habitable". Is a "ruin" another entity entirely, or just another term for "derelict" and where could I find information on this?

paddylonglegs · 08-04-2014 2:31pm

Hi. Iv tried to do as much research online as possible can't find exact answers. Hopefully I can get some advice here.

-Moved into old 3 bedroom house 18 months ago
- House has outbuildings previously used as farm sheds.
-We would like to renovate these for use as a granny flat for OH parents.
- we need to put in our own septic tank by next year as the existing is on farmers land ( house was previously owned by farmer).
- before the idea of the granny flat came up, we planned to put in sep tank large enough for 4 bed incase we extended. We subsequently had to buy extra land off farmer so that percolation area wouldn't be too close to house.

My questions are:
1. Will we have to apply for pp for tank big enough for 5 bed if granny flat will be 1 bed and we can share septic system?

2. Do we need planning permission to convert these sheds?

3. The outside walls of the outbuilding are our boundary, will this be an issue if we plan to renovate?

Another potential issue is that the outbuilding is close to where we planned to put septic tank. Will we now need to consider putting tank elsewhere?

Hope this all makes sense

Thanks

Penn · 08-04-2014 3:46pm

paddylonglegs wrote: »

My questions are:
1. Will we have to apply for pp for tank big enough for 5 bed if granny flat will be 1 bed and we can share septic system?

Septic tanks are sized based on the number of people it'll be serving, so it will have to be included. You'll need planning permission for the granny flat anyway, so the increased size of the tank and percolation area will have to be dealt with as part of that application.

paddylonglegs wrote: »

2. Do we need planning permission to convert these sheds?

As above, yes, as it's a material change of use of the building.

paddylonglegs wrote: »

3. The outside walls of the outbuilding are our boundary, will this be an issue if we plan to renovate?

The foundation of the wall should probably be checked, but so long as the works don't extend over the centerline of the boundary wall you should be okay. Depends on the construction details used. The professional you engage would have to check the wall and design accordingly.

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Another potential issue is that the outbuilding is close to where we planned to put septic tank. Will we now need to consider putting tank elsewhere?

Most likely. Septic tanks must be a minimum of 7m from any dwelling, and the percolation area must be a minimum of 10m from the dwelling. Again, as part of the planning application, this will have to be addressed and designed.

paddylonglegs · 08-04-2014 9:02pm

Penn wrote: »

Septic tanks are sized based on the number of people it'll be serving, so it will have to be included. You'll need planning permission for the granny flat anyway, so the increased size of the tank and percolation area will have to be dealt with as part of that application.

As above, yes, as it's a material change of use of the building.

The foundation of the wall should probably be checked, but so long as the works don't extend over the centerline of the boundary wall you should be okay. Depends on the construction details used. The professional you engage would have to check the wall and design accordingly.

Most likely. Septic tanks must be a minimum of 7m from any dwelling, and the percolation area must be a minimum of 10m from the dwelling. Again, as part of the planning application, this will have to be addressed and designed.

Thanks very much for the reply penn. That's a great help. One more question. Who should I approach now who can guide me with these issues, architect or engineer?

Penn · 09-04-2014 12:16am

paddylonglegs wrote: »

Thanks very much for the reply penn. That's a great help. One more question. Who should I approach now who can guide me with these issues, architect or engineer?

Doesn't really matter. Any architect, arch tech, building surveyor or engineer should be able to deal with that through planning stage anyway.

slipstream · 10-04-2014 8:39am

i'm about to submit a planning application for an house extension and driveway widening in fingal. i've noticed that some similar local planning applications included a soakpit in their plans while others have not included one.

do you guys know when a soakpit would be required in fingal?

slip

DOCARCH · 10-04-2014 10:36am

If there is no seperate foul and (seperate) surface/rainwater drainage system serving your house (i.e. if the existing drainage system is a combined drainage system)...then a soakpit will be required to deal with/take the surface/rainwater out of the combined drainage system. Soakpit must be designed to BRE 365.

Whoever is preparing your planning application should check and advise.

slipstream · 10-04-2014 2:41pm

thanks docarch.

DOCARCH wrote: »

If there is no seperate foul and (seperate) surface/rainwater drainage system serving your house (i.e. if the existing drainage system is a combined drainage system)...then a soakpit will be required to deal with/take the surface/rainwater out of the combined drainage system. Soakpit must be designed to BRE 365.

do you know when that rule came into effect and where it is documented?

also, where a combined drainage system is in place would a soakpit be required in all cases where planning permission is required?

Gumbo · 10-04-2014 4:42pm

Sorry, wrong thread.

DOCARCH · 10-04-2014 6:22pm

slipstream wrote: »

thanks docarch.

do you know when that rule came into effect and where it is documented?

also, where a combined drainage system is in place would a soakpit be required in all cases where planning permission is required?

Bit of a long one but google...Greater Dublin Regional Code of Practice for Drainage Works

Usually a soakpit is required where there is a combined system.

Gumbo · 12-04-2014 9:00pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

Bit of a long one but google...Greater Dublin Regional Code of Practice for Drainage Works

Usually a soakpit is required where there is a combined system.

Or SUDS. Would that be useful here? DCC conditions this on many one off builds.

*Sustainable Urban Deainage System.

Gru · 12-04-2014 10:18pm

I have a quick question, I've only just learned of outline planning permission and I was wondering what is the typical process here as I'd like to sell a site but would obviously make more if the site had planning.

I don't intend to live/build there but if I could sell the site with planning I could make enough to buy a nice house somewhere else with a sizable deposit etc.

Is selling a site with outline planning relatively straightforward? Also does anyone have a link to a guide for this/ frequently asked questions?

ht9zni1gs28crp · 17-04-2014 10:12am

Gru wrote: »

I have a quick question, I've only just learned of outline planning permission and I was wondering what is the typical process here as I'd like to sell a site but would obviously make more if the site had planning.

I don't intend to live/build there but if I could sell the site with planning I could make enough to buy a nice house somewhere else with a sizable deposit etc.

Is selling a site with outline planning relatively straightforward? Also does anyone have a link to a guide for this/ frequently asked questions?

You need to check your local needs with Planning as permission to build in your area may only be available to locals.

Brave Harvey · 18-04-2014 11:24am

Hello guys, quick question,
does a replacement dwelling incur development fees of a new house? house to sit in original footprint of existing 60s house to be demolished.

sydthebeat · 18-04-2014 12:17pm

Brave Harvey wrote: »

Hello guys, quick question,
does a replacement dwelling incur development fees of a new house? house to sit in original footprint of existing 60s house to be demolished.

all local authorities have their own development contribution policies.

so its really down to where you are, and why it is being replaced.

cerastes · 24-04-2014 3:52pm

In a nutshell, a neighbour has taken over a piece of green space beside their property a few years, I'm full sure this was not theirs to take as I had a look at the folio in the registry office years ago for another reason, I think Id have to pay to look now. Its in an estate.

I do believe there is a negative effect for neighbours for a number of reasons, although I suspect other neighbours dont see the problem, they are affected by it.
The owner is not now even in the property and its not registered elsewhere, how long is it before they can aquire this plot? do they have to put up a sign or is it just an enquiry they process with the council, what is the process to do that? and can people object? if an objection is possible does the person making the appeal have to be named? As I am doing nothing wrong except highlighting their action Id be concerned for repercussions.

Basically they seem to have extended their garden, rented the property, have not registered it for that and Id suspect arent registered as they arent paying tax either, seem to be making a lot of gains on the back of not contributing.

This may seem like sour grapes as Im sure someone will say, but there is a cost implication for the neighbouring properties too.
If they were legitimate in other ways and contributed to the cost of any problems associated with their takeover based on some agreement then I wouldnt be opposed to it, but they seem to have made an arbitrary decision to benefit themselves without consulting those that may and have been affected.

This is something I have wondered for a while and was uncertain who to contact as I did make an enquiry off the local council before but they never got back to me.

sydthebeat · 24-04-2014 4:24pm

cerastes wrote: »

In a nutshell, a neighbour has taken over a piece of green space beside their property a few years, I'm full sure this was not theirs to take as I had a look at the folio in the registry office years ago for another reason, I think Id have to pay to look now. Its in an estate.

I do believe there is a negative effect for neighbours for a number of reasons, although I suspect other neighbours dont see the problem, they are affected by it.
The owner is not now even in the property and its not registered elsewhere, how long is it before they can aquire this plot? do they have to put up a sign or is it just an enquiry they process with the council, what is the process to do that? and can people object? if an objection is possible does the person making the appeal have to be named? As I am doing nothing wrong except highlighting their action Id be concerned for repercussions.

Basically they seem to have extended their garden, rented the property, have not registered it for that and Id suspect arent registered as they arent paying tax either, seem to be making a lot of gains on the back of not contributing.

This may seem like sour grapes as Im sure someone will say, but there is a cost implication for the neighbouring properties too.
If they were legitimate in other ways and contributed to the cost of any problems associated with their takeover based on some agreement then I wouldnt be opposed to it, but they seem to have made an arbitrary decision to benefit themselves without consulting those that may and have been affected.

This is something I have wondered for a while and was uncertain who to contact as I did make an enquiry off the local council before but they never got back to me.

you have your mind made up about this without knowing ANY of the facts.....

You have NO idea whether this guy paid money to the council to purchase this land..... yet you denigrate them because of your baseless suspicions.

its not often i say this on here, but your attitude is horrible.
you should form your opinions on the facts you know.

cerastes · 24-04-2014 4:34pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

you have your mind made up about this without knowing ANY of the facts.....

You have NO idea whether this guy paid money to the council to purchase this land..... yet you denigrate them because of your baseless suspicions.

its not often i say this on here, but your attitude is horrible.
you should form your opinions on the facts you know.

Baseless? didnt I say I looked at the folio?
and if Im wrong then that is all there is to it, but if Im right Id like to know the grounds for dealing with it.

I know well they are not registered for the purposes of renting, which leads to the obvious conclusion they are not paying tax as you have to have that registration for the purpose of claiming tax reliefs.

Im 99.9% certain nothing has been done officially, but I am asking what the process is to find out, as there has never been any signage up to reflect any changes. They operate a business from the address and simply aquire the land.

As I said, I wouldnt have an issue with it, except it has cost me and others money due to an issue that occured which is a direct result of this person taking over the land, had we insisted, that person should have footed the entire bill except they are uncontactable and we needed the problem dealt with. So do you have any answers to the questions Ive asked or are you here merely to criticise me.

I'll follow it up with re checking the folio, I dont know how up to date this is, but I expect if Im paying the fee it should be as recent as possible.

You seem to agree it is ok for them to evade paying tax, fulfiliing their legal obligation to register their tenancy and you expect I believe they paid for the plot of land? And are unwilling or able to answer the questions I've posed.

sydthebeat · 24-04-2014 5:07pm

you said you looked at the folio years ago.... what use is that now?
do you also expect land sales to be registered with Land Registry immediately??? they can take years to go through.

what are you basing your "99.9% certain"ty of no official sanction on this?

you have given us NO facts yet are looking to hear answers that suit your agenda.....

BryanF · 24-04-2014 5:16pm

cerastes wrote: »

I had a look at the folio in the registry office years ago for another reason, I think.

why not check this out and comeback, with the principle item confirmed.

in the mean time Gents, lets keep this civil, thanks

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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