Trying to Eat Better - Getting Fatter

chops018 · 01-11-2014 12:17am #1

So I altered my diet up the last while. Still not fantastic, but, it's a lot better than it was because believe me, it used to be awful.

I'm about 65kg, I was about 60kg, I usually float between 60 and 70kg.

Anyway, I go to the gym around 4 times a week, try get a bit of cardio in aswell. I'm by no means "ripped", but never thought myself as fat and always had a bit of shape. But lately, since I changed my diet really, my belly seems to be getting bigger.

I used to eat sugary cereals for breakfast, lunch was sambo's with chocolate and crisps and diet coke, dinner was potatoes, fried foods, supper was cup of tea with a full pack of american style cookies, maybe more crisps and chocolate throughout the day. Weekends were worse - loads of alcohol and takeaways. Always stayed in decent shape because I was in the gym loads.

A few weeks ago I changed it up. Breakfast is now something fibre rich, be it all bran or wholemeal bread with orange juice/water or fruit, lunch is still some sambo's but with fruit and water now, dinner is now just veg and some meat, might have a bar of chocolate for supper but not all the time. Plus I don't drink as much, and no takeaways at weekends either anymore.

Now, I know the new diet isn't really good tbh, and there should be a lot more variances etc. But still, it's a lot better than diet one (at least to me), and it looks like it would be a lot less calories and fat too. But I seem to have gained a lot of belly fat in the last few weeks. Is it something along the lines that my body was so used to all this bad food?

Does this make sense? Am I getting older and metabolism is finally catching up.

Slydice · 01-11-2014 1:47am

It's calories. You need up around 2000 a day give or take (depending on your size).

You take in more calories than you need, then you gain fat (body stores excess energy for later).
You take in less calories than you need, then you lose fat (body uses energy previously stored).

It's good that you are trying to eat healthier. Eating better is good for your health. For example, less sugar means you might have a better chance of getting diabetes.

Still though, the fat is down to calories. Most products you buy in a pack tell you how much. Look for the "Kcal". For example 200Kcal is 200 calories. Just like with junk food, you can eat more calories than you you use with healthy food.

TeamJesus · 01-11-2014 8:51am

You might be reacting to something new in your diet.

If you eating more wheat / dairy your digestive system might not like it. Especially if the extra padding is around your middle. Are you bloated or having digestive problems?

The above poster is right it may be calories... but you definitely shouldn't count calories, concentrate on nutrients! Eat more VEGETABLES.

indigo twist · 01-11-2014 9:20am

You might hate the idea of actually counting calories, and it's not sustainable for many as a long-term plan - but I'd really advise doing it for just a week. Use a phone app like "myfitnesspal", and be really strict (for just one week) about recording everything. You'll be surprised about where the calories creep in!

Breakfast - do you have your Allbran/wholemeal bread dry? You need to include calories for any milk, spreads, etc you have with them. Fruit juice isn't a great choice - very high in sugar. In general if trying to lose weight, it would be better to aim to choose vegetables over fruit. Or if you want fruit, choose berries. Have you tried porridge/eggs for breakfast? You can poach/scramble 2-3 eggs in the microwave in around two minutes, it's very convenient, very filling, and a lot healthier than cereal or bread. Throw in some spinach and whatever else you fancy too.

For lunch - instead of sandwiches, would you try cooking a double-portion of dinner in the evenings, and having one of the portions for lunch the next day? Try cooking chicken or beef (or any meat) in a passata sauce with loads of veg - this is low in calories, very filling, and it freezes and reheats well. If you're cooking in the evening anyways, it's just as easy to cook for two meals as for one.

I think the first step though is to actually record your current calories for the next week (don't just estimate based on your last week, as chances are you won't remember every little thing!) That way you can see where your starting point is, and where you need to cut back.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 10:36am

Your diet is mainly based on carbohydrates apart from dinner. You may be carbohydrate intolerant to a certain extent. A breakfast of bran, bread and juice is very high carb / high sugar. Swap this for example to eggs, omelette, bacon, Greek yogurt with berries. This breakfast won't spike your insulin like the latter which causes people to hold onto fat or gain it. Use myfitness app but instead of focusing on calories focus on the amount of carbohydrates. Try get it below 150 grams daily. Basically just eat real unprocessed food. Eliminating wheat could make a big difference for you.

Gummy Panda · 01-11-2014 12:05pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Your diet is mainly based on carbohydrates apart from dinner. You may be carbohydrate intolerant to a certain extent. A breakfast of bran, bread and juice is very high carb / high sugar. Swap this for example to eggs, omelette, bacon, Greek yogurt with berries. This breakfast won't spike your insulin like the latter which causes people to hold onto fat or gain it. Use myfitness app but instead of focusing on calories focus on the amount of carbohydrates. Try get it below 150 grams daily. Basically just eat real unprocessed food. Eliminating wheat could make a big difference for you.

Carb intolerant? He makes carbs sit at the back of the bus

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 1:01pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Carb intolerant? He makes carbs sit at the back of the bus

It's not so much the amount of calories that matter but where the calories come from that really matters, i.e. from carb, protein, fat.

Oryx · 01-11-2014 4:19pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

It's not so much the amount of calories that matter but where the calories come from that really matters, i.e. from carb, protein, fat.

His previous diet was carb packed as well. Crisps/potatoes/cookies/alcohol/takeaways. It looks to me like the new diet is better than the previous one, even in terms of your philosophy.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 4:26pm

Oryx wrote: »

His previous diet was carb packed as well. Crisps/potatoes/cookies/alcohol/takeaways. It looks to me like the new diet is better than the previous one, even in terms of your philosophy.

Yes it looks better. However the effects of those foods on insulin levels in a carb intolerant person are similar to the worse looking diet which may explain the belly fat the op referred to.

ShadowHearth · 01-11-2014 4:28pm

Some stuff that is/sounds healthy can be very high on calories. Do a calorie check up on your food as you might be going over your daily needs.

You said, that you drink juice now? That is loaded with calories and sugars.

Oryx · 01-11-2014 4:30pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

Yes it looks better. However the effects of those foods on insulin levels in a carb intolerant person are similar to the worse looking diet which may explain the belly fat the op referred to.

It still doesnt explain weight gain with what is overall a better diet. For the benefit of the op, could you explain or link to something scientific/non youtube on carb intolerance?

OP I would definitely be checking the quantities of what you are eating, plus any sneaky extras you dont think about like sauces, that extra slice of bread, or a small treat. Also, what fruit are you eating, and in what quantity?

chops018 · 01-11-2014 4:37pm

Thanks guys.

I will download that app and start counting calories!

My plan is to start eating more of this stuff:

eggs, tuna, steak, chicken breasts, salmon, oat meal, ricecakes, beans, cottage cheese, chocolate milk, asparagus, apple, brocolli, carrot, turnip, sunflower seeds.

Maybe a dark chocolate bar if I'm looking for something sweet, and some wholemeal bread in the mornings sometimes. Also I'm thinking of switching to coconut oil for frying.

Honestly don't know how the belly fat is increasing.....

generic2012 · 01-11-2014 4:40pm

If you're intolerant to something like wheat or dairy you would not be gaining weight as it would be ejecting out of you at rapid pace. Also, science shows that calories dictate weight gain/loss. If you believe people who say it's not calories, that means you believe stuff that is unprovable and doesn't need or have a shred of evidence. If this is the case, do it right, just say that a unicorn is performing adipose tissue transplants on you in your sleep, it's just as likely to be true as calories not counting, but it's more original.

Oryx · 01-11-2014 4:51pm

chops018 wrote: »

Thanks guys.

I will download that app and start counting calories!

My plan is to start eating more of this stuff:

eggs, tuna, steak, chicken breasts, salmon oat meal, ricecakes, beans, cottage cheese, chocolate milk, asparagus, apple, brocolli, carrot, turnip, sunflower seeds.

Maybe a dark chocolate bar if I'm looking for something sweet, and some wholemeal bread in the mornings sometimes. Also I'm thinking of switching to coconut oil for frying.

Honestly don't know how the belly fat is increasing.....

Tinned beans are usually full of sugar. Chocolate milk is high in calories. Just be cautious with stuff like that, know how much energy youre consuming.

Nuts and dried fruit are also a good go snack, again watch quantity.
Also put on your list:
Tomatoes
Courgette
Walnuts
Almonds
Onion
Banana
Spices and seasonings

Just for a bit of variety when youre cooking!

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 7:26pm

Oryx wrote: »

It still doesnt explain weight gain with what is overall a better diet. For the benefit of the op, could you explain or link to something scientific/non youtube on carb intolerance?

y?

It does.

When carbs eaten blood glucose levels rise. Insulin is secreted by the pancreas in response to glucose entering the bloodstream from the gut. The body must be protected against sustained high blood glucose levels so the insulin causes the glucose which is not immediately used for energy to be stored by the liver and muscles as glycogen. Once the glycogen reserves are filled the excess glucose is stored as fat. If carbs cannot be immediately removed by the body it gets converted by the liver and sent to our fat tissues for storage. The result of this cycle is you get fat.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 7:32pm

chops018 wrote: »

Thanks guys.

I will download that app and start counting calories!

My plan is to start eating more of this stuff:

eggs, tuna, steak, chicken breasts, salmon, oat meal, ricecakes, beans, cottage cheese, chocolate milk, asparagus, apple, brocolli, carrot, turnip, sunflower seeds.

Maybe a dark chocolate bar if I'm looking for something sweet, and some wholemeal bread in the mornings sometimes. Also I'm thinking of switching to coconut oil for frying.

Honestly don't know how the belly fat is increasing.....

All great choices except chocolate milk and bread and to a lesser extent oats, rice cakes and beans.

It's increasing because your diet is mainly carbohydrate based.

Hanley · 01-11-2014 8:02pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

It does.

When carbs eaten blood glucose levels rise. Insulin is secreted by the pancreas in response to glucose entering the bloodstream from the gut. The body must be protected against sustained high blood glucose levels so the insulin causes the glucose which is not immediately used for energy to be stored by the liver and muscles as glycogen. Once the glycogen reserves are filled the excess glucose is stored as fat. If carbs cannot be immediately removed by the body it gets converted by the liver and sent to our fat tissues for storage. The result of this cycle is you get fat.

You're getting lost in your broscience.

DNL only really matters when total calorie intake from carbs is in excess of DEE needs.

Which is unusual. For an average person - that's probably going to be > 500g daily of carbs.

[maintenance @ 14kcal/lb for 80kg dude = 2,500kcal - assume 100g/day protein @ 80% net kcals for TEF = 2,200kcal "left over" for DEE]

...so really it's the fat you're eating in tandem with the carbs being stored.

The fat is making you fatter, but the carbs are facilitating it.

...which kinda makes sense.

Why would your body ingest fat, convert it to useable energy [glucose/"carbs"], and then transfer the OTHER energy source you just ate (carbs) into stored bodyfat?

Nice try, but you're losing credibility by the second.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 8:23pm

Hanley wrote: »

You're getting lost in your broscience.

DNL only really matters when total calorie intake from carbs is in excess of DEE needs.

Which is unusual. For an average person - that's probably going to be > 500g daily of carbs.

[maintenance @ 14kcal/lb for 80kg dude = 2,500kcal - assume 100g/day protein @ 80% net kcals for TEF = 2,200kcal "left over" for DEE]

...so really it's the fat you're eating in tandem with the carbs being stored.

The fat is making you fatter, but the carbs are facilitating it.

...which kinda makes sense.

Why would your body ingest fat, convert it to useable energy [glucose/"carbs"], and then transfer the OTHER energy source you just ate (carbs) into stored bodyfat?

Nice try, but you're losing credibility by the second.

So much for ignore function eh!

Fat does not make you fat.

Not actually my words. I'm no expert. I just read lots and come up with my own conclusions which have worked great for me.

I'm sure you're excellent at what you do and highly knowledgeable in your area.

The words were a direct quote from Tim Noakes. Is he wrong? Are you more knowledgeable than him? Check out http://essm.uct.ac.za/accademic/prof-timothy-noakes/

generic2012 · 01-11-2014 8:44pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

It does.

When carbs eaten blood glucose levels rise. Insulin is secreted by the pancreas in response to glucose entering the bloodstream from the gut. The body must be protected against sustained high blood glucose levels so the insulin causes the glucose which is not immediately used for energy to be stored by the liver and muscles as glycogen. Once the glycogen reserves are filled the excess glucose is stored as fat. If carbs cannot be immediately removed by the body it gets converted by the liver and sent to our fat tissues for storage. The result of this cycle is you get fat.

Insulin is also secreted in response to protein consumption. I don't know why you think insulin is bad?

If you consume 2000 calories in a day, all from carbs and you burn 2,400 calories, 2,000 will be taken from the carbs digested and the other 400 from fat stores. It doesn't matter if fat is added at some point as the net result is weight loss. I don't see how you don't understand that? It's simple addition and subtraction, not even any division or multiplication. I know you're a golf player so muscle or performance mightn't mean a great deal to you but insulin is essential for either.

Bruno26 wrote: »

So much for ignore function eh!

Fat does not make you fat.

Not actually my words. I'm no expert. I just read lots and come up with my own conclusions which have worked great for me.

I'm sure you're excellent at what you do and highly knowledgeable in your area.

The words were a direct quote from Tim Noakes. Is he wrong? Are you more knowledgeable than him? Check out http://essm.uct.ac.za/accademic/prof-timothy-noakes/

Fat/carbs/protein does not make you fat. Ingesting more energy than you expend makes you fat.

If Tim Noakes says that calories don't matter, then yes, he's wrong. Just because he subscribes to your idea of 'knowledgeable', doesn't mean he can make stuff true. If this was the case, if Stephen Hawkins said unicorns exist then either we would have to believe that unicorns exist or else that since he is 'knowledgeable' it would make unicorns come into existence.

Smart people don't have monopolies on the truth, we can prove them wrong using facts and evidence.

Gummy Panda · 01-11-2014 8:47pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

So much for ignore function eh!

Fat does not make you fat.

Not actually my words. I'm no expert. I just read lots and come up with my own conclusions which have worked great for me.

I'm sure you're excellent at what you do and highly knowledgeable in your area.

The words were a direct quote from Tim Noakes. Is he wrong? Are you more knowledgeable than him? Check out http://essm.uct.ac.za/accademic/prof-timothy-noakes/

Fat does get stored as fat. Its how it works: Net Change in Fat Stores = Fat Stored – Fat Burned

Carbs blunt the oxidisation of fat. And for the record, carbs isn't only the only macro that raises insulin.

ford2600 · 01-11-2014 8:51pm

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ie/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html?m=1

RGDATA! · 01-11-2014 9:00pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

The words were a direct quote from Tim Noakes. Is he wrong? Are you more knowledgeable than him? Check out http://essm.uct.ac.za/accademic/prof-timothy-noakes/

In linking to Noakes' CV and the awards he's received it's worth noting that for the vast majority of his career he wasn't advocating the diet he is now. So if you're saying he's right now, then are you saying he's been wrong for most of the career you're linking to?

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 9:05pm

RGDATA! wrote: »

In linking to Noakes' CV and the awards he's received it's worth noting that for the vast majority of his career he wasn't advocating the diet he is now. So if you're saying he's right now, then are you saying he's been wrong for most of the career you're linking to?

He was wrong on carbs. He's fully admitted this.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 9:22pm

I know which side most posters on here would be on!

http://www.biznews.com/health/2014/07/28/tim-noakes-makes-real-meal-critics-say-diet-dangerous/

ixus · 01-11-2014 9:34pm

Is it fat around your belly or is your stomach bloated/expanding?

How many weeks has diet really changed? Three? Was it all at once? How much alcohol at weekends?

What age bracket are you? A lot of lads (assuming you're a bloke here) get away with drinking heaps of pints from the age of 18-21 if they're tipping along in the gym or playing sport. It catches up eventually though.

What do you do in the gym? Same routine, same reps, same weights all the time? If so, your body won't be stimulated enough to cause change.

What's in the sambo? Is it prepacked or freshly made? What meat and veg are you eating? Quality of the meat matters.

Rapeseed oil for frying. I eat coconut oil raw to add fat.

metamorphosis · 01-11-2014 11:09pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

It does.

When carbs eaten blood glucose levels rise. Insulin is secreted by the pancreas in response to glucose entering the bloodstream from the gut. The body must be protected against sustained high blood glucose levels so the insulin causes the glucose which is not immediately used for energy to be stored by the liver and muscles as glycogen. Once the glycogen reserves are filled the excess glucose is stored as fat. If carbs cannot be immediately removed by the body it gets converted by the liver and sent to our fat tissues for storage. The result of this cycle is you get fat.

You are not answering the question she proposes though and are ignoring the factors at play.

If we break it down:

Diet A: Carb havy, high percentage of imitation foods
Diet B: Still carb heavy but small improvements on Diet A

So, we look at factors at play.

Weight is the variable, diet is the constant.

Weight achieved on diet A is xxkg. Improvements are made. Higher weight is achieved on new diet that has a small improvement factored in.

Now if we remember that both diets have a high percentage of carbs, your arguement here is that he is/may be carb intolerant

Why are all other factors and questions been ignored? So he switches the diet, puts weight on and boom - carb intolerance? What about the variables and contants beforehand.

BTW - I am not agreeing or disagreeing, just in this particular instance, I found the reply to be rather lazy as while you gave your version of an answer to the OP, you didn't give your answer to Oryx. You addressed half of hat was asked.

generic2012 · 01-11-2014 11:16pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

I know which side most posters on here would be on!

http://www.biznews.com/health/2014/07/28/tim-noakes-makes-real-meal-critics-say-diet-dangerous/

Did you even bother with Ford2600's link? What you're doing is only reinforcing your view. If your view was correct you could look for contradictory evidence and not find any because there is none, therefore your view can be called true. But all you do is seek confirmatory 'evidence' which just skews your dillusions more. Just read the thing. and post back what parts are specifically wrong. If you can't do that it has to be taken as a sign of admission that you don't have a clue what you're on about.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 11:20pm

metamorphosis wrote: »

You are not answering the question she proposes though and are ignoring the factors at play.

If we break it down:

Diet A: Carb havy, high percentage of imitation foods
Diet B: Still carb heavy but small improvements on Diet A

So, we look at factors at play.

Weight is the variable, diet is the constant.

Weight achieved on diet A is xxkg. Improvements are made. Higher weight is achieved on new diet that has a small improvement factored in.

Now if we remember that both diets have a high percentage of carbs, your arguement here is that he is/may be carb intolerant

Why are all other factors and questions been ignored? So he switches the diet, puts weight on and boom - carb intolerance? What about the variables and contants beforehand.

BTW - I am not agreeing or disagreeing, just in this particular instance, I found the reply to be rather lazy as while you gave your version of an answer to the OP, you didn't give your answer to Oryx. You addressed half of hat was asked.

The second diet appears better but the reality is it is pretty much as bad apart from dinner. For example we don't know how many bowls of cereals, glasses of juice or slices of bread they are eating. Perhaps this amount has increased as they are eating less of the seemingly worse foods. The foods eaten in both diets have similar effects.

Oryx · 01-11-2014 11:28pm

Bruno26 wrote: »

The second diet appears better but the reality is it is pretty much as bad apart from dinner. For example we don't know how many bowls of cereals, glasses of juice or slices of bread they are eating. Perhaps this amount has increased as they are eating less of the seemingly worse foods. The foods eaten in both diets have similar effects.

Which is kinda the advice that is being given? Check calories and portions?

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 11:29pm

generic2012 wrote: »

Did you even bother with Ford2600's link? What you're doing is only reinforcing your view. If your view was correct you could look for contradictory evidence and not find any because there is none, therefore your view can be called true. But all you do is seek confirmatory 'evidence' which just skews your dillusions more. Just read the thing. and post back what parts are specifically wrong. If you can't do that it has to be taken as a sign of admission that you don't have a clue what you're on about.

Read it before. I believe Taubes. I'd read it again but I was busy doing weights for golf (have you seen woods/mcilroy) (casual golfer now I've finished with competitive ball games) and reading about unicorns.

Bruno26 · 01-11-2014 11:31pm

Oryx wrote: »

Which is kinda the advice that is being given? Check calories and portions?

Majority say check calories. I say count grams of carbohydrate initially (under 150 g daily) and eat as much real food as satisfies your appetite.

Trying to Eat Better - Getting Fatter

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