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UTV Ireland launching on Saorview 1st Jan 2015

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    #32
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Awful decision by UTV Ireland not to broadcast in HD on soarview, had they done this they would have blown TV3 out of the water. As it is TV3 now don't need to worry about having to upgrade to HD to stay in the game.
    2RN charge an exorbitant fee of €2.2 Million per year for the privilege of using a HD transponder.
    That is the reason why RTE are the only channels broadcasting in HD.
    They were forced to set up the HD platform by legislation so its there anyway.
    Here is the million dollar question. Was that €4.4 Million for RTE1/RTE2 HD factored in by RTE as part of that set up cost that had to be done anyway?
    If so, It's an incredibly un-level playing field for independents.
    Also we, the Irish public paid for the platform to be set up through the license fees., so we should have a say on the cost of transponders, Not 2RN or the BAI.


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    #33
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    i looked at the picture quality of both utvhd and the test tranmission for utvi on my free to air combi box. needless to say there is no comparison so if its not HD on Saorview I at least will have the choice to just leave utvhd where it is now. The cost for Saorview tranmission for a HD channel really is shocking for amount of viewers it will get.


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    #34
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Not only do RTE have to pay €2.2m fr RTE 1 and 2, they also pay €900k for each of the other two channels that yield zero income, plus all the radio channels.

    As a result of TV3's complaint, a pricing system was derived by arbitration that has the charges where they are. The decision was to no-ones advantage. Without it, 2RN could offer introductory tarrifs for new services, like change-over to HD or new channels, like OTV and UTVi.

    If RTE did not have the burden of the two useless channels, then the second mux would not be needed. Currently, they have two HD channels and two SD channels broadcasting zeros (well test cards but zero value and zero income) which is nearly a complete mux, and that is with UTVi SD not counted.


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    #35
    Biffo The Bare
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭Biffo The Bare


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    2RN charge an exorbitant fee of €2.2 Million per year for the privilege of using a HD transponder.
    That is the reason why RTE are the only channels broadcasting in HD.
    They were forced to set up the HD platform by legislation so its there anyway.
    Here is the million dollar question. Was that €4.4 Million for RTE1/RTE2 HD factored in by RTE as part of that set up cost that had to be done anyway?
    If so, It's an incredibly un-level playing field for independents.
    Also we, the Irish public paid for the platform to be set up through the license fees., so we should have a say on the cost of transponders, Not 2RN or the BAI.

    What a waste. There have been test cards on a lot of the transponders for the best part of three years. And when somebody comes along with a quality channel to put on Saorview, they are priced out of using a HD transponder, even though 40% of the remaining space is taken up with bloody test-cards.
    Remember, Its our money they are spending.
    Start copping on lads.


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    #36
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Biffo The Bare wrote: »
    What a waste. There have been test cards on a lot of the transponders for the best part of three years. And when somebody comes along with a quality channel to put on Saorview, they are priced out of using a HD transponder, even though 40% of the remaining space is taken up with bloody test-cards.
    Remember, Its our money they are spending.
    Start copping on lads.

    Not only that, If the pricing structure was relaxed, this would mean RTE would have more money to spend on programming.
    I have travelled to many countries around the world over the last 10 years, and Saorview is the least inspiring terrestrial platform I have ever encountered. What a joke.:confused:


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    #37
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    I have travelled to many countries around the world over the last 10 years, and Saorview is the least inspiring terrestrial platform I have ever encountered. What a joke.:confused:

    What is your opinion of the DTT platforms in Holland, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland etc., very few FTA channels.


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    #38
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    10000maniacs wrote:
    Not only that, If the pricing structure was relaxed, this would mean RTE would have more money to spend on programming. I have travelled to many countries around the world over the last 10 years, and Saorview is the least inspiring terrestrial platform I have ever encountered. What a joke.


    Saorview combined with Freesat, I believe we have a great selection of Free channels in Ireland.
    And now with UTV Ireland on the saorview platform - a welcomed addition, hopefully we get it in HD on saorview like it's sister channel on freesat.


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    #39
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Saorview combined with Freesat, I believe we have a great selection of Free channels in Ireland.
    And now with UTV Ireland on the saorview platform - a welcomed addition, hopefully we get it in HD on saorview like it's sister channel on freesat.

    Wouldnt hold your breath - we are still waiting for TG4 HD on saorview afterall :mad:

    Wonder what UPC charge tg4 for the broadcasting of its HD variant or is it still classed as a "trial"?

    Is there a current listing of all saorview channels including tests and other details? My tuner is detecting alot of unknown channels


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    #40
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    warlikedave wrote: »
    Wonder what UPC charge tg4 for the broadcasting of its HD variant or is it still classed as a "trial"?

    Free of charge I assume just like the Oireachtas Channel and the other Irish channels
    warlikedave wrote: »
    Is there a current listing of all saorview channels including tests and other details? My tuner is detecting alot of unknown channels

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93330078#post93330078


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    #41
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    I forgot about TG4 HD, I presume we will get the Oir/Lienster house channel on saorview as it was on test.
    Saorview should do more to attract these channels and others, however it must be hard to compete with upc if they offer carriage of these stations for free.
    But free in this case is an illusion as Joe public must pay again once for a TV licence and also for Upc for the viewing.


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    #42
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Not only do RTE have to pay €2.2m fr RTE 1 and 2, they also pay €900k for each of the other two channels that yield zero income, plus all the radio channels.

    As a result of TV3's complaint, a pricing system was derived by arbitration that has the charges where they are. The decision was to no-ones advantage. Without it, 2RN could offer introductory tarrifs for new services, like change-over to HD or new channels, like OTV and UTVi.

    If RTE did not have the burden of the two useless channels, then the second mux would not be needed. Currently, they have two HD channels and two SD channels broadcasting zeros (well test cards but zero value and zero income) which is nearly a complete mux, and that is with UTVi SD not counted.

    Wrong wrong wrong.:rolleyes:

    RTE pay for nothing, bar the amount they get for advertising.
    License fee payers pay for RTE's carriage on 2RN's network.
    License fee payers, TV3 and TG4 pay for the upkeep of 2RN's digital network.
    This is required by legislation.
    So in effect, RTE are getting carriage paid for them by us.
    Everybody else has to pay €2.2 million for a HD transponder.
    THIS is why RTE 1 and RTE 2 are the only channels available in HD.


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    #43
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Biffo The Bare wrote: »
    And when somebody comes along with a quality channel to put on Saorview

    Not sure I'd agree with that statement


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    #44
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    carrolls wrote: »
    Wrong wrong wrong.:rolleyes:

    RTE pay for nothing, bar the amount they get for advertising.
    License fee payers pay for RTE's carriage on 2RN's network.
    License fee payers, TV3 and TG4 pay for the upkeep of 2RN's digital network.
    This is required by legislation.
    So in effect, RTE are getting carriage paid for them by us.
    Everybody else has to pay €2.2 million for a HD transponder.
    THIS is why RTE 1 and RTE 2 are the only channels available in HD.

    2RN are a wholly owned subsidiary of RTE and have their own accountancy rules, as do RTE. So RTE pay 2RN, even though they take it from one pocket and put it into another.

    2RN are required to balance their charges between their users on DTT as to their use of bandwidth. If all the major channels go HD, then the cost for HD goes down. Currently, 2RN fills the unused channels with zeros and the full cost is divided up between the users. If the muxes were full, the costs per channel would be much less.

    Your comment is a political one. TV3 and TG4 get licence fee money under the Sound and Vision fund (and TV3 have two years worth of support for Red Rock from the fund), and TV3 had €80m of debt to the taxpayer written off - that would pay for a few years of HD channels - even at €2.2m per year. So do not tell me that RTE are the only ones to benefit from taxpayer funds. (incidentally, the Licence is not a tax but that would be pedantic).


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    #45
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    2RN are a wholly owned subsidiary of RTE and have their own accountancy rules, as do RTE. So RTE pay 2RN, even though they take it from one pocket and put it into another.

    2RN are required to balance their charges between their users on DTT as to their use of bandwidth. If all the major channels go HD, then the cost for HD goes down. Currently, 2RN fills the unused channels with zeros and the full cost is divided up between the users. If the muxes were full, the costs per channel would be much less.

    Your comment is a political one. TV3 and TG4 get licence fee money under the Sound and Vision fund (and TV3 have two years worth of support for Red Rock from the fund), and TV3 had €80m of debt to the taxpayer written off - that would pay for a few years of HD channels - even at €2.2m per year. So do not tell me that RTE are the only ones to benefit from taxpayer funds. (incidentally, the Licence is not a tax but that would be pedantic).
    Who benefits most per hour of programming from the TV licence?
    I would guess its RTE by a couple of orders of magnitude.
    RTE don't pay the €6 million per year for carriage on Saorview, We do. Pure and simple.
    No RTE apologist or anybody else is going to convince me otherwise.
    We need a level playing field in Irish broadcasting, and then Saorview will take off.


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    #46
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The TV licence was set up to pay for RTE. RTE were allowed to get revenue from advertising as the licence fee would be insufficient to cover their costs, just as advertising was used to cover costs on radio before that.

    No-one is forcing the commercial TV companies, like TV3 or UTVi, to be on DTT and they choose to be on there as they make money, or at least, think they might. If they do not cut it, they can close down.

    RTE are controlled by the legislation.

    This has no relevance to UTVi.


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    #47
    carrolls
    Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭carrolls


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The TV licence was set up to pay for RTE. RTE were allowed to get revenue from advertising as the licence fee would be insufficient to cover their costs, just as advertising was used to cover costs on radio before that.

    No-one is forcing the commercial TV companies, like TV3 or UTVi, to be on DTT and they choose to be on there as they make money, or at least, think they might. If they do not cut it, they can close down.

    RTE are controlled by the legislation.

    This has no relevance to UTVi.
    If UTV need to pay €2.2 million for HD and RTE have a free ride, yes it has relevance.


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    #48
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    The Cush wrote: »
    Free of charge I assume just like the Oireachtas Channel and the other Irish channels



    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93330078#post93330078

    thanks :D


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    #49
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    2RN is the trading name of RTÉ Transmission Network Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Raidió Teilifís Éireann, formerly trading as RTÉNL, which runs Ireland's principal digital terrestrial television and radio broadcast networks. This may have been fine in the days when you had no commercial independent television and radio however; things changed from 1988/89 onwards. I think the whole television and radio transmission network should not even be a subsidiary of either RTÉ or any of the other major commercial players in the market.

    Ireland has never really managed to separate different sections of operations in various semi-state companies ever since one time vital services were deregulated which ended monopoly ownership structures which would eventually pave the way for new competition in these once highly protective sectors.

    CIE Group- C.I.E. split it's national bus & train network into 3 companies around March 1987 > Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, Iarnród Éireann
    ESB Group > ESB Customer Supply=Electric Ireland, EirGrid, ESBi (ESB international)
    Bórd Gáis > Ervia t/a:Gas Networks Ireland, Irish Water...
    Bórd Telecom Éireann > Eircom, eMobile, Meteor...
    RTÉ > TV:(RTÉ1, RTÉ2, RTÉ1+1, RTÉ Jr; RTÉ News Now) Radio:(RTÉ Radio1, 2fm, lyric fm, RnaG+Digital Radio) RTÉ Aertel, 2RN=RTÉNL


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    #50
    AwaitYourReply
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭AwaitYourReply


    I meant to include the below at end of my previous post ...

    Ireland's Digital Terrestrial Television platform: Saorview was always going to have issues if one major operator had unfair advantage over others.

    On 26th May 2011 the SAORVIEW digital platform was launched to 97% of the population

    In spring 2011, RTÉ launched a new national free-to-air digital platform, SAORVIEW.

    2rn provisioned all the necessary national digital transmission infrastructure and systems for the introduction of this new free-to-air (FTA) platform.


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    #51
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Sam Russell wrote:
    Your comment is a political one. TV3 and TG4 get licence fee money under the Sound and Vision fund (and TV3 have two years worth of support for Red Rock from the fund), and TV3 had €80m of debt to the taxpayer written off - that would pay for a few years of HD channels - even at €2.2m per year. So do not tell me that RTE are the only ones to benefit from taxpayer funds. (incidentally, the Licence is not a tax but that would be pedantic).


    And after an €80 million debt to the tax payers written off, TV3 won't pay for carriage on Saorsat, not surprising as in the past they would not pay for carriage on some of the smaller transmitters.

    It's OK for tax payers to bail out TV3 and it's owners, but TV3 and it's owners don't give a shi# about the tax payers or Licence fee payer's.


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    #52
    formerly scottish paddy
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭formerly scottish paddy


    I love all this RTÉ shouldn't have anything to do with Saorview nonsense. People have very short memories. Remember RTÉ was not going to have anything to do with DTT in the first place. The system was going to be built by commercial interests the government told us, and RTÉ would just rent space on it like everyone else, so we waited, and waited, and waited for the government and “commercial interests” to get their act together. Eventually as the rest of Europe turned off their analogue systems we still had no working DTT system. RTÉ NL then had to build and commission the Irish DTT system in 18 months. RTÉ’s biggest mistake was actually going ahead and building the system, they should have sat back and let the government sort it out or pay the EU fines. Now they are expected to pay all the costs of setting it up and then let everyone else use it for free! RTÉ should tell TV3, TG4, UTVI, Otv, or whoever, that they can pay to setup and run a third mux with nothing to do with 2RN. The government can if it wants, use some of the millions that it gained from ASO to help out.


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    #53
    mass_debater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,072 ✭✭✭mass_debater


    formerly scottish paddy wrote: »
    The government can if it wants, use some of the millions that it gained from ASO to help out.

    Didn't we give it to the Germans


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    #54
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,508 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    We haven't had a post directly related to UTV here in over two pages.

    The best thing here is that we will close the platform-specific UTV threads and continue all discussion here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057324314&page=25

    I'm open to a discussion taking place on the broader issue of the Saorview rate card, provided it doesn't stray (as some posters above are doing) into wider political issues. But lets not do it in a thread entitled "UTV Ireland launching on Saorview 1st Jan 2015    .


This discussion has been closed.
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