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Gender issues in After Hours - Your feedback requested.

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Comments

  • #242
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Millicent wrote: »
    I am not being over-zealous. I know the lay of the land to AH -- it's where the vast majority of my posts are. I have noticed an issue; other users have noticed an issue; the Mods and Admins have noticed an issue. If you wish to post humour that may be offensive, there is a forum for that, the Nein 11 private forum. Now of course you don't find that offensive -- it's not aimed at your gender. But if it's going to offend a sizeable portion of other posters, why would you even want to post it? This is what I don't understand.

    What gender is it aimed at?

    I'm a woman as I clarified in my previous post.


  • #243
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    How is it offensive?

    Questioning the parentage of somebody's baby? How is that not offensive? Or implying that she's sleeping with the boss? Why would that even count as humour?


  • #244
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    What gender is it aimed at?

    I'm a woman as I clarified in my previous post.

    Apologies. I misread you.

    Well then, I'm even more confused. If you were pregnant or a friend of yours was pregnant and somebody questioned your/her baby's parentage, another posted that it was great to see you were/she was riding, and another said you/she should have used contraception, you wouldn't find that offensive?


  • #245
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Millicent wrote: »
    Apologies. I misread you.

    Well then, I'm even more confused. If you were pregnant or a friend of yours was pregnant and somebody questioned your/her baby's parentage, another posted that it was great to see you were/she was riding, and another said you/she should have used contraception, you wouldn't find that offensive?

    If I posted about it on the internet in AH, I would expect all sorts of replies. If I knew my baby's parentage/not why would I take it as offensive? If I post on an internet form about my boss not giving me special treatment, then yes I would full expect comments like that.

    The poster would know nothing about me or my situation and I would take it with a pinch of salt. I think being oversensitive about what is sexist and what isn't will ruin the forum.

    Obviously there is a line - I wouldn't particularly get offended about things on the internet but jokes about rape, murder, suicide are not on. Comments like 'get back in the kitchen' etc. - don't particularly bother me. In real life I know that women don't belong in the kitchen so I don't take them personally.

    I think the current system of reporting posts and mods deciding on a case to case basis is the fairest.


  • #246
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    If I posted about it on the internet in AH, I would expect all sorts of replies. If I knew my baby's parentage/not why would I take it as offensive? If I post on an internet form about my boss not giving me special treatment, then yes I would full expect comments like that.

    The poster would know nothing about me or my situation and I would take it with a pinch of salt. I think being oversensitive about what is sexist and what isn't will ruin the forum.

    Obviously there is a line - I wouldn't particularly get offended about things on the internet but jokes about rape, murder, suicide are not on. Comments like 'get back in the kitchen' etc. - don't particularly bother me. In real life I know that women don't belong in the kitchen so I don't take them personally.

    I think the current system of reporting posts and mods deciding on a case to case basis is the fairest.

    It's inherently offensive. The nature of a joke like that is offensive. Perhaps not to you but to a great many people it is. People who find things like that offensive are not "over-sensitive". Maybe they have a different line for offence than you do but it's not fair to dismiss any concerns people have as over-sensitivity, particularly when the Mods have acknowledged that an issue exists with sexism in AH.

    There was nothing in that thread about her expecting special treatment either so that may be you bringing your own expectations to the thread. The poster asked a specific question relating to whether or not her friend had an entitlement to be notified of job openings while on maternity leave. It's a simple question that doesn't necessitate comments on who and how the OP's friend is riding.


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  • #247
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Millicent wrote: »
    It's inherently offensive. The nature of a joke like that is offensive. Perhaps not to you but to a great many people it is. People who find things like that offensive are not "over-sensitive". Maybe they have a different line for offence than you do but it's not fair to dismiss any concerns people have as over-sensitivity, particularly when the Mods have acknowledged that an issue exists with sexism in AH.

    There was nothing in that thread about her expecting special treatment either so that may be you bringing your own expectations to the thread. The poster asked a specific question relating to whether or not her friend had an entitlement to be notified of job openings while on maternity leave. It's a simple question that doesn't necessitate comments on who and how the OP's friend is riding.

    Move the thread to work and jobs / other more appropriate form. I think some posters just look to be offended.

    Anyway I've given my feedback, I won't be trying to change any staunch feminist views. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.


  • #248
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Move the thread to work and jobs / other more appropriate form. I think some posters just look to be offended.

    Anyway I've given my feedback, I won't be trying to change any staunch feminist views. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

    Why is it a "staunch feminist view"? Diminishing others' opinion by painting them as people looking to be offended isn't exactly constructive. Writing it off as just some feminist upset isn't either.

    I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. It's a pity as I was actually looking forward to trying to understand your position. It's frankly a bit rude to write my own position off in that way.


  • #249
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    And it pains me to say it, but it might be a bit unfair: even though I don't like what they're saying, they're not breaking the charter, though it might be argued that constantly posting mildly offensive and leading posts might be being a d*ck, like persistent fouling in football.

    Like Donegal in Gaelic! I get you!
    Boombastic wrote: »
    How is it offensive?

    Just because you do not think it is offensive, does not mean it isn't offensive. The person delivering an insult does not get to to determine what level of an insult is, the recipient or victim can take offence andlet independent parties decide.

    I value freedom of speech hugely, the main reason? Because it exposes idiots and trolls. The "don't be a dick rule" is a good balance and a good rule.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #250
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger viewpost.gif
    so she's defo riding then

    good to know

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davet82 viewpost.gif
    thats what you get for breeding...

    Tbh I think there was room for joking in that thread, plenty of it. While not an obviously light hearted thread it was not about rape, murder, abortion, domestic violence, depression, child abuse or another of the myriad of topics where it would be bad form to make a joke.

    Tiggers post comes across as a joke, a joke you may not like granted but I heard very similar in a stand up comedy routine about picking up women at an abortion rally. there was nothing malicious in it as far as I can see. The next posts a little different granted I really don't know what they were going for.

    When Boombastic defended her post you asked do you really not see what's wrong with it, I don't so maybe you might explain.

    I think our differences here probably stem from a different take on what topics deserve to be treated seriously from the off.


  • #251
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Cody, I just read your previous post. Are you serious in thinking this is all part of some feminist conspiracy? :confused:


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  • #252
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    K-9 wrote: »
    Completely agreed, if you dish it it, be prepared to take it back! I do post in socer and GAA ;) Hugely important in AH as well.





    Ach, I'm a bit lost now, I just don't tend to read between lines anymore.

    Put is this way, mods have to go on examples. WE all know of sexist posts against women.

    A few examples of posts agains men would be very helpful.

    I don't have any problem with posts like this but given what has been said in the thread already I imagine this is what he is talking about

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80043127&postcount=5489


  • #253
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Millicent wrote: »
    Cody, I just read your previous post. Are you serious in thinking this is all part of some feminist conspiracy? :confused:

    I would say its obviously a topic this poster is passionate about. But to constantly re reg to make long rambling flaming posts is more of an obsession. A slightly scarey one imo.
    If he just kept to the topic without the pure malice toward everyone who doesnt agree with him, it might have made an interesting debate.
    This poster also seems concerned with who and how many people thank posts. Perhaps he is 'trying' to achieve some legendary status on boards himself. I daresay this reregging thing may go on for sometime...


  • #254
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Reregging to get around bans to constantly repeat yourself is what I am posting about. I don't give a hoot about new or other rereggers. Or their gender. And to say it appears to be an obsession is not a personal attack, its an observation based on behaviour.


  • #255
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I dunno, we feminaz...feminist....clowder of cats like to keep you men on your feet.

    And it's Ms. WindSock.


  • #256
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Cody, I'm not go into a back and forth with you about this since all of your posts are hundreds of words long and... ugh. No thanks. But I am glad you used the Eliminati name in reference to this mythical hooded cartel of women who run After Hours behind the scenes. I hope it sticks.


  • #257
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    LLCoolJ - clearly a rereg.
    Sitebanned.


  • #258
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Millicent wrote: »
    Questioning the parentage of somebody's baby? How is that not offensive? Or implying that she's sleeping with the boss? Why would that even count as humour?
    Ok but...
    mackg wrote: »
    I don't have any problem with posts like this but given what has been said in the thread already I imagine this is what he is talking about

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80043127&postcount=5489
    You thanked this post M. Would you thank a similar one aimed at women? I dunno... Don't get me wrong M if I'd seen that post I'd have likely thanked it too. My personal take is that there are too many first world problems bedwetters out there of both genders who need to grow a pair of testes/ovaries[delete as applicable]. Would I post/thank that in PI? Nope, but I would in AH, or at least not freak out if I saw it there. Horses for courses.
    Boombastic wrote: »
    If the above quote by me is sexist, I think that the level of modding some posters want in after hours would be over bearing and really stifle the lightheartness and discussion on the forum threads.
    I agree B, though I would underline "some" posters. As Frada pointed out earlier in the thread you have a two way race between "feminist liberal conspiracy" versus "I'm a sensitive soul/AH adds to the rape culture". Both hyped up nonsense IMHO. The middle ground is where it's at, it's where I'd bet the farm the vast majority of the posters, mods and admins think it's at too. That middle ground needs tweaking and the extreme views here are merely a distraction.
    LLCoolJ wrote:
    Saying someone is obsessed, in the neagitive way you did, is of course a personal attack. You could have said I was determined, persistent, steadfast, assiduous, hawt, unflagging, resolute, tireless .. even stubborn I would have settled for, but "obsessed" - makes me feel mocked and now I'm beginning to think you don't like me all that much.
    Good god man, change the bloody record. Obsession and daftness pretty much sums it up. Beating the same dead horse, regregging to do so, thereby increasingly threatening your ability to actually post in the forum you seem so intent in defending is obsessional and yep, daft.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #259
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Another feedback thread successfully ruined by an agenda poster.

    Oh well.

    We shall persevere.


  • #260
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,920 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Millicent wrote: »
    .

    As has been said many times already, those aren't the posts that are problematic, it's the "get your tits out", "spread your legs", the doubting of rape victims, the malicious posts that are problematic.

    In fairness, if I post that its not gender specific :pac:


  • #261
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Another feedback thread successfully temporarily ruined made silly by an agenda poster.
    FYP. :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • #262
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    filtering through all that stuff

    Are we saying that there should be no sexism in after hours?


  • #263
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    sheesh wrote: »
    filtering through all that stuff

    Are we saying that there should be no sexism in after hours?

    In short, yes.


  • #264
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    Noah Incalculable Barometer wrote: »
    In short, yes.

    Fair enough.

    Is there a working description of what is a sexist post?


  • #265
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Why not make a point of highlighting it for a while ?. Sticky in AH saying sexism is the work of the devil and will result in a ban. Ask people to report what they believe to be sexism and see what kind of stuff people are deciding is uncalled for.

    Once you know what people are reporting, what people are posting and how everyone is dealing with it as a forum you will be in a better position to know where to draw the line. Talking about what can be done and what should be done only gets you so far. There is measures in place already to deal with sexism, just tighten them up a bit and see how it goes.


  • #266
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    sheesh wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    Is there a working description of what is a sexist post?
    Think about what constitutes a racist post. Then change the subject to a woman (or indeed, a man).

    Presto.


  • #267
    Tombi!
    Registered Users Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    sheesh wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    Is there a working description of what is a sexist post?

    We're not sure, yet. Basically so far we've decided the generalizations aren't allowed.

    Other than that, I guess smart comments akin to "yore ma" and so on but about gender are going too.

    Now we're just trying to find the line from what is banter and what is sexism.


  • #268
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    This thread got me thinking about another thread in AH


    This post in this thread



    '.............Yet again, the entire onus is being put on the woman which is unfair. If a man wants to prevent himself becoming a father then he also needs to be as informed as the woman.........'


    A poster being offended as they think what is being I am saying in the thread is all responsibility for contraception should be the womans' responsibility. When in fact a few posts above that, I stated
    Oh I definitely agree both partners are as responsible as each other, which raises the question (in general), if the pill is failing so often, why aren't the males also wearing condoms aswell as the girl being on the pill?


    I think there are a lot of cases in after hours where people don't actually read posts and just jump in with the 'offended' line.


    Edit: just to add it's even in this thread
    you are not offended because it doesn't apply to your gender
    , when it actually does


  • #269
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ok but...

    You thanked this post M. Would you thank a similar one aimed at women? I dunno... Don't get me wrong M if I'd seen that post I'd have likely thanked it too. My personal take is that there are too many first world problems bedwetters out there of both genders who need to grow a pair of testes/ovaries[delete as applicable]. Would I post/thank that in PI? Nope, but I would in AH, or at least not freak out if I saw it there. Horses for courses.

    You know what -- I probably shouldn't have thanked that. If it was something that caused somebody offence and I had done it, I wouldn't bother trying to defend it, I'd simply say I was sorry and stop posting or thanking anything like that. If the consensus is that that sort of posting is not on, I'll go with that.


  • #270
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    This thread got me thinking about another thread in AH


    This post in this thread







    A poster being offended as they think what is being I am saying in the thread is all responsibility for contraception should be the womans' responsibility. When in fact a few posts above that, I stated




    I think there are a lot of cases in after hours where people don't actually read posts and just jump in with the 'offended' line.


    Edit: just to add it's even in this thread , when it actually does

    So you're taking a digging at me, even though I apologised?


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  • #271
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭tigger123


    I'll completely avoid any threads relating to gender issues in AH. They very quickly descend into nonsense, trolling and people behaving like complete dicks. There was a thread on rape within the last 12 months and I kind of lost a lot of respect for both boards.ie and it's moderators due to the type of stuff which was being tolerated on the thread (I haven't got time to find it right now). I look at the boards.ie and After Hours section much differently now.

    The argument is often made that if you don't like what's being said then don't come here (to After Hours), so I don't really bother with it a whole lot any more.

    And also, as another user pointed out, if you said some of the things said about women about another race or ethnic group you'd be banned, receive warnings or whatever. But apparently saying those things about women is acceptable according to boards.ie and it's moderators. I cannot for the life of me get my head around how this works.


This discussion has been closed.
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