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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
Comments
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Archer3083 wrote: »Davy doesn't need to do that himself. Even Brian Cody avoids talking about the referee even though he's grinding his teeth during interviews. Someone else can do that on behalf of the Clare team. Look at what happened to Rory Gallagher this week after he went rogue ahead of the Mayo game.
But if Davy isn't the man giving the interview, he is going to be criticised also. Davy didn't do the press night before the All-Ireland, he let one of the selectors handle it which was the correct choice in my opinion, yet davy was criticised by some for not been there.0 -
Squareball2010 wrote: »Sasol I suggest you take off your rose tinted glasses with comments and facts such as those you have presented about the drawn game.
Firstly I agree with most of your points about Brian Gavin's incorrect calls against Clare in the first half - some beggared belief including the frontal charge by McLoughlin and the overcarrying decision against McInerney.
However this is where you are slightly delusional as you can only see the errors in Cork's favour and argue a 1-3 "swing" that the referee was at fault for as he (cue the ridiculous statement) "attempted to win the All Ireland for Cork".
1. Shane O'Neill and Honan were both at it and importantly Honan struck first, do people seriously think that he just lashed out for the craic or something - it was either 2 yellows or 2 reds no ifs or buts. And to me there's no doubt both players should have been sent off. Re-watch the incident and you should see Honan's strike across O'Neill's faceguard. His retaliation was petulant and stupid and indeed he was a lucky boy to stay on, so too was Honan though. Pity the cameras only picked up the O'Neill strike CLEARLY.
2. The first 21 Cork had should have been retaken - result at least a point and possibly a goal which was at minimum a 2 pt swing and possibly a four point swing - not sure any other decision in the whole game had as big a score impact.
3. Played over the time to give Clare a chance for the equaliser - thus you could say Gavin's decisions against Cork swung 3 pts to Clare at least, did he really miss 3 scoreable frees for Clare that would have evened up this position.
The factual stats on the free count from the AI final are:
1st half Cork-11 Clare-5
2nd half Cork - 5 Clare-11
I must say lads this McGrath appointment worries me and annoys me. Judging by his poor performances both in the AI Final replay last year - disallowing Donellan's goal by not playing a simple advantage was a poor mistake and his inexcusable sending off of Horgan in the Munster Final which was rightly rescinded, frankly a man doesn't deserve the replay of the biggest game in the hurling year! Johnny Ryan the other linesman would have been a far more sensible option imo. It isn't fair on Clare either as they will undoubtedly fear McGrath will look to make up for and atone for his error in the Munster Final...even subconsiously. Who knows?
Honan did not strike. I saw it happening, I had full view. Any suggestion that Honan stuck, is a feeble attempt to try and justify what O'Neill did (not for the first time this year)
The first Cork 21 should not have been given, because as I stated already, TV clearly shows that Kelly did not pick the ball off the ground !
Gavin did not play over time. Read this from John Bannon, which summarises it perfectly
To clarify the additional time rule, time can be added on for incidental or deliberate play, which holds up the game. Cork’s two line-balls in the two minutes signalled by fourth official James Owens on behalf of Gavin fell into the latter bracket.
The first line ball occurred at 70:03 minutes and Conor O’Sullivan placed the ball. Christopher Joyce then repositioned the sliotar and struck it on 70:36. That’s 33 seconds of a lapse. The second line ball was awarded at 71:29 but wasn’t taken until 71:58, a gap that amounted to 29 seconds.
Cork were clearly attempting to kill the clock and I had no issue with Gavin permitting the extra 38seconds.0 -
Well I certainly wouldn't criticize him for not doing that press night. Everyone knows he's got a short fuse. He did the right thing avoiding that press night and not being sucked into an incident. I think Davy might have this notion that he's redirecting attention from the team to himself and protecting the players but honestly, if he kept his lips sealed he would not be giving his critics any ammunition.0
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Archer3083 wrote: »Well I certainly wouldn't criticize him for not doing that press night. Everyone knows he's got a short fuse. He did the right thing avoiding that press night and not being sucked into an incident. I think Davy might have this notion that he's redirecting attention from the team to himself and protecting the players but honestly, if he kept his lips sealed he would not be giving his critics any ammunition.
He is doing exactly that. Everyone is talking about him and no one is talking about the team. He takes the blame for everything. When cork won the first championship game everyone was blaming Davy even though the shooting was shocking and the players couldn't hand pass 5 yards.0 -
I think Davy is getting the wrong sort of attention now. He's painting a big target on his back for everyone who dislikes him to really get stuck in and criticise him and maybe take it out on the Clare team.0
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Archer3083 wrote: »I think Davy is getting the wrong sort of attention now. He's painting a big target on his back for everyone who dislikes him to really get stuck in and criticise him and maybe take it out on the Clare team.
Nice guys don't win **** all though.0 -
Who says you have to be nice. He should be clever! JBM is a fox and says very little.0
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So you are not going to deal with any of the points I raised ?
Saying that Honan stroke O'Neills head is a lie and nothing else. It did not happen.
It must hurt from a Cork point of view that this would be a tainted All-Ireland in non Corkonians eyes. Every single game Cork have won , has been clouded by huge referreing decisions going in your favour.
When you use the gaelic grounds ,and say every single game,we won over referring calls,thats the point where in your post ,I question it's credibility,with due respect.
Ye lost in june,due to nash brillance,clare having awful wides,harnedy destroying bulger and clare being mentally exhausted after training the wk before,any geuine clare fan,will tell you it had nothing to do with barry kelly.
No clare fan bar you thinks it did.As you say yourself,why wasnt kelly criticsed after the game.?
Simply because he had nothing to answer for.Clare were at full strength and couldnt beat an injury ravaged cork.They lost,nothing to do with Kelly.
To say Cork beat dublin purely on a ref,is not respecting the fact cork played superb hurling,ten different player scored from play.
You seem admant that Rushe sending off with 15 minutes to go had a huge bearing on the game,yet you think cork had no right to say we would have won and been in a semifinal if horgan had not been sent off,and we had to play in blistering heat for 35 minutes.
Clare were all over cork last week,couldnt beat us,im nt sure limerick would have.
Limerick were not all over us,in fact cork were on top in most aeras.
Harnedy was pulled and dragged repeatledy in the final.The same two eyes that saw o Neill should have been sent off,saw that.I do not need the media to reinforce what i saw,and you simply don't want to.
Clare should have won,bar the o neill incident can not blame the ref,as he didnt concede the three goals in fairness.
Ye would be better served,tightening up on yere full back line that leaked 8 goals this year,than like Davy play the victims.
Cork lived on the edge,so did Clare.No team under davy will be saints.Davy is a great manager,but twice this year,against crowley in the league in March and the last day against kingston was involved in off the ball incidents.
Davy doing that and then playing the victim card on hes team,is like oil and water,it does not mix,and stands out like a sore thumb.
Clare could and should have won,ye did not it was not all down to Gavin.
3 super goals, that would grace any final,and ye would do well to get one as good,a team that never gave up,and Nash been superb ,along with harnedy when we were on the backfoot is some reasons why were still in it.
Clare inflicted the most pain the last day ,in outscoring us on points,and winning most of the match ups.
However Cork have endured more hardship than any team this year,with four certain starters gone from last year ,and in every game having players injured or not fully fit.
When we got beat by limerick,we went out of the frying pan,and in to the fire,with Kk,up in two weeks,unlike clare we had no easy game with laois to blow out the cobwebs.We played ye in june,when ye had a game already under yere belt.We had not played in over two months.
We then had to beat Dublin in Dublin.We are still their.To say that we got to the final on referring decisions is unjust to a superb season by this team,win or loose on the 28th.0 -
Honan did not strike. I saw it happening, I had full view. Any suggestion that Honan stuck, is a feeble attempt to try and justify what O'Neill did (not for the first time this year)
The first Cork 21 should not have been given, because as I stated already, TV clearly shows that Kelly did not pick the ball off the ground !
Gavin did not play over time. Read this from John Bannon, which summarises it perfectly
To clarify the additional time rule, time can be added on for incidental or deliberate play, which holds up the game. Cork’s two line-balls in the two minutes signalled by fourth official James Owens on behalf of Gavin fell into the latter bracket.
The first line ball occurred at 70:03 minutes and Conor O’Sullivan placed the ball. Christopher Joyce then repositioned the sliotar and struck it on 70:36. That’s 33 seconds of a lapse. The second line ball was awarded at 71:29 but wasn’t taken until 71:58, a gap that amounted to 29 seconds.
Cork were clearly attempting to kill the clock and I had no issue with Gavin permitting the extra 38seconds.
Yet again, presenting your opinion and "full view" as "fact". Do you ever stop? Honan struck O'Neill one second before O'Neill retaliated. And yet again you say that people are trying to "justify" O'Neill's strike, nobody ever did it. Nobody ever said O'Neill shouldn't have been sent off. Only that Honan should have gone with him.
You say that Kelly didn't pick up the ball and it was "proved" on TV. At 4.35 in this video it looks more likely that he did than he didn't, so yet again you are presenting your opinion as being "proved" and "fact". The subsequent 21 strike shows Kelly rushing off his line and was even beyond the small parallelogram when the ball is struck and it should have been retaken. But I suppose that is legal in the Sasol definition of these things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwNzHxuOPtk
As for Bannon, he is talking rubbish. For the first line ball, the teams were level, why would Cork waste time when they had possession and had come back into the game? And the time taken was in no way out of the ordinary, happens 20 or 30 times in a game. For the second line ball , he omits the detail that Kelly the Clare goalie ran away with the ball preventing the quick lineball and Cork didn't get the ball back for 11 of those 29 seconds. Neither lineball was timewasting, Bannon will back up his fellow ref and omit the finer points. Gavin played phantom time on top of extra time, the Clare whingers have nothing to complain about, they should be grateful.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »James Mcgrath ref for the final,the worst ref out their.
He was the guy that sent Hoggie off. He reffed last years final replay too if my memory serves me right.0 -
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So you are not going to deal with any of the points I raised ?
Saying that Honan stroke O'Neills head is a lie and nothing else. It did not happen.
It must hurt from a Cork point of view that this would be a tainted All-Ireland in non Corkonians eyes. Every single game Cork have won , has been clouded by huge referreing decisions going in your favour.
Do you honestly think jbm and the panel of 26 will have sleepless nights on what the rest of the country thinks,if they have celtic crosses in ther back pockets come 7 pm on the 28th
Cork dont give a damn on what the rest think of us.Cork people are more concerned about the state of the game in our county.We have always known most counties dont exactly adore us.
After the strikes for example,when kilkenny destroyed us ,and the score was played in most gaa grounds around ireland,it was by most given a round of applause.It didnt bother us.All we wanted was the right man in charge.Four years later we have that,and the wheel in fairness turned full circle.
Some that jumped on cork while we were down,have now or since then had their own inhouse troubles ,and cork people havent been ungracious to them in their times of trouble.
In fact most geuine cork fans symphatise with any county having problems within,as nobody should go through what cork and the fans went through in those turbulent times.0 -
The u21 semi final as well in 2007 against galway,he was woeful.That same day colm o neill scored a beauty of a goal.He was the guy that sent Hoggie off. He reffed last years final replay too if my memory serves me right.
Hope you got to c the game in the states the last day kid.0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »The u21 semi final as well in 2007 against galway,he was woeful.That same day colm o neill scored a beauty of a goal.
Hope you got to c the game in the states the last day kid.
Hope he doesnt mess up anything in the final or get something wrong that would cost us the Final.
Cheers yeah got to see it alright in New York. Nail biting stuff in the end0 -
When will the Cork team be returning home to the city after the final win or lose? Would it be Sunday evening or monday evening?0
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When will the Cork team be returning home to the city after the final win or lose? Would it be Sunday evening or monday evening?
Id say monday ,will be the homecoming.I hope so,as if they have on it the sunday eveining,its dissrespectful to the ladies,and will take away from the crowd if its sunday.
A good question ?when will they actually come home.The county board being as tight as they are wont an a third overnighter ,presuming we stay the friday night.Id say cork like the footballers against dubs,will go up the night before.
Normally the winning team visit the children for sick hospital ,i think in crumlin on the monday afterwards.
Im nt sure what the story is for definite,but a very good question.0 -
Nice guys don't win **** all though.
There is a difference between being nice and soft on the inside,than being steely,brave,ruthless, and calm and composed in the public eye.
Jbm is made of stern stuff ,and will able to make harsh calls.As seen by dropping,Cusack,Gardiner,Sean og etc.
He also doesnt do loyalties either,purely on form.He dropped Martin coleman ,and rightly so from the panel,even though he played with hes father Martin snr in the 3 in a row.
He done it in 99,also dropping old great players.He was brave enough to convert Fergal Mccormark,a half back by trade when he first stared out,to CF for cork.
In contrast Counihan with the football team,is a gentleman,softly spoken,the full works.But he lacks the steel,conviction to drop old war horses who were hes loyal servants.
Jbm doesnt,but is a gentleman and even in kilkenny,he is the one cork man they regard as a gentleman,and very few of them would say anything negative about him.JBM is like Guardiola,loved by the media and everyone,but successful.
You can do both.
I have no bother Davy trying to take the heat of the team,and use the angle the whole world is against Clare.The problem is when it manifests itself on to the sideline ,it is a joke,and not what you want to c,the soccer ethos in gaa.Davy is a great manager,very astute.He does not need to to become another Mourinho though.
I wouldnt want to c a cork man do it.And make no mistake about it we have enough f**ls in cork that would act that way if they got the chance.
I saw our minor manager Pat kenneally get involved with a clare selector last year.Nothing was made of it,as hes a board man.Thankfully he is not the minor manager anymore.0 -
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As far as I know, the hurlers are back down on Sunday, didn't hear of them going to support the ladies, even though the ladies are going to support the hurlers.
Ladies had their press night last night, was well attended in comparision to other press nights by all accounts - wasn't there, but got the report afterwards!
Flights sorted, tickets for both games sorted, accomodation sorted, time off on Monday sorted - bring on the All Ireland weekend!!0 -
Mouth of the South wrote: »Yet again, presenting your opinion and "full view" as "fact". Do you ever stop? Honan struck O'Neill one second before O'Neill retaliated. And yet again you say that people are trying to "justify" O'Neill's strike, nobody ever did it. Nobody ever said O'Neill shouldn't have been sent off. Only that Honan should have gone with him.
You say that Kelly didn't pick up the ball and it was "proved" on TV. At 4.35 in this video it looks more likely that he did than he didn't, so yet again you are presenting your opinion as being "proved" and "fact". The subsequent 21 strike shows Kelly rushing off his line and was even beyond the small parallelogram when the ball is struck and it should have been retaken. But I suppose that is legal in the Sasol definition of these things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwNzHxuOPtk
As for Bannon, he is talking rubbish. For the first line ball, the teams were level, why would Cork waste time when they had possession and had come back into the game? And the time taken was in no way out of the ordinary, happens 20 or 30 times in a game. For the second line ball , he omits the detail that Kelly the Clare goalie ran away with the ball preventing the quick lineball and Cork didn't get the ball back for 11 of those 29 seconds. Neither lineball was timewasting, Bannon will back up his fellow ref and omit the finer points. Gavin played phantom time on top of extra time, the Clare whingers have nothing to complain about, they should be grateful.
I seen a slow motion replay on youtube and bugler rolled the ball up and Kelly caught it, It was a good 2 feet off the ground when he did. When I find the video again I will add it here.
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Is it possible that both homecoming could join on the monday?okay if one team looses it may dampen the mood but i think if either did,the hurling team deserve a huge crowd for where they came from,and the ladies too for they achieved the last ten years.rebel girl 15 wrote: »As far as I know, the hurlers are back down on Sunday, didn't hear of them going to support the ladies, even though the ladies are going to support the hurlers.
Ladies had their press night last night, was well attended in comparision to other press nights by all accounts - wasn't there, but got the report afterwards!
Flights sorted, tickets for both games sorted, accomodation sorted, time off on Monday sorted - bring on the All Ireland weekend!!
What you dnt want to c is the fiasco in 2007 when there was a woeful crowd turned out in mallow train station ,after kerry humilated them.They and Morgan for what he gave to cork football deserved better.0 -
re shane o Neill
i was talking to a fella that knows gavin well,gavin said to him that it was going to be two reds or two yellow,gavin was informed that honan struck o neill with the hurl first and that he didn't want to ruin the game with two reds so early on!0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Is it possible that both homecoming could join on the monday?okay if one team looses it may dampen the mood but i think if either did,the hurling team deserve a huge crowd for where they came from,and the ladies too for they achieved the last ten years.
What you dnt want to c is the fiasco in 2007 when there was a woeful crowd turned out in mallow train station ,after kerry humilated them.They and Morgan for what he gave to cork football deserved better.
I remember that - the Kerry lads actually stopped in Mallow for a few minutes around 4/4.30 coming down, and there was a few there - crowd was woeful for the Cork lads! I think the ladies were looking for a joint homecoming, but it has been rejected. I know the lads come down on the train, whereas the ladies would be coming down by bus, stopping in Fermoy, then Watergrasshill and the city centre. It would be much better to have both on the one night, but if it ends up that the lads is on Sunday night, the crowd for the ladies game may be less. In fairness, a lot of people are staying up for both games, which will be fantastic, this bunch of girls, a team that you could argue had a transition of sorts when they lost to Tyrone in 2010 are back again, 8 finals in 9 years going for three in a row.0 -
rebel girl 15 wrote: »I remember that - the Kerry lads actually stopped in Mallow for a few minutes around 4/4.30 coming down, and there was a few there - crowd was woeful for the Cork lads! I think the ladies were looking for a joint homecoming, but it has been rejected. I know the lads come down on the train, whereas the ladies would be coming down by bus, stopping in Fermoy, then Watergrasshill and the city centre. It would be much better to have both on the one night, but if it ends up that the lads is on Sunday night, the crowd for the ladies game may be less. In fairness, a lot of people are staying up for both games, which will be fantastic, this bunch of girls, a team that you could argue had a transition of sorts when they lost to Tyrone in 2010 are back again, 8 finals in 9 years going for three in a row.
Twas a sickner,it still sits my stomach to be honest.Yet 3 year later the same cork fans crying wolf for a ticket for the final.
Fair enough people cnt go to every game,function etc, but some that could have went just didnt want to go
It was a disgrace.How are the cork camp?any injuries etc.I dont know much about monaghan bar the Casey girl to be honest but the bookies have them both even money.wil cork win?and is it just rumour or will this be the last game win or loose for a few of the greats?
On a side note twas on the radio,that there has been a spate of robberies at gaa grounds in North cork,the last fw days,clyda and killavullen,while game were going on.There warning people to leave no valuables in cars etcg0 -
rebel girl 15 wrote: »I remember that - the Kerry lads actually stopped in Mallow for a few minutes around 4/4.30 coming down, and there was a few there - crowd was woeful for the Cork lads! I think the ladies were looking for a joint homecoming, but it has been rejected. I know the lads come down on the train, whereas the ladies would be coming down by bus, stopping in Fermoy, then Watergrasshill and the city centre. It would be much better to have both on the one night, but if it ends up that the lads is on Sunday night, the crowd for the ladies game may be less. In fairness, a lot of people are staying up for both games, which will be fantastic, this bunch of girls, a team that you could argue had a transition of sorts when they lost to Tyrone in 2010 are back again, 8 finals in 9 years going for three in a row.
It was rejected ,to have a joint homecoming.What a jokeTotally dissrespectful to the ladies and Eammon Ryan.
No prizes for who rejected it.0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »It was rejected ,to have a joint homecoming.What a jokeTotally dissrespectful to the ladies and Eammon Ryan.
No prizes for who rejected it.
Not quite sure if rejected is the right word, but from what I've heard its not happening.
No injury worries for the ladies afaik, but will find out things over the weekend - its a case of where to best play certain players against Monaghan, who will be gunning for Cork, given the recent history over the last number of years!0 -
Honan did not strike. I saw it happening, I had full view. Any suggestion that Honan stuck, is a feeble attempt to try and justify what O'Neill did (not for the first time this year)
The first Cork 21 should not have been given, because as I stated already, TV clearly shows that Kelly did not pick the ball off the ground !
Gavin did not play over time. Read this from John Bannon, which summarises it perfectly"
Again your bias is incredible. For one second man try and take a proper and fair view of the events and be true and honest with yourself because you're only making yourself look foolish.
1. YES O'Neill should have seen red for a piece of petulance and stupidity striking Honan around the head blatantly in front of the umpires(every cork person accepts this :rolleyes:). However YES Honan did strike first, hittin O'Neill into his faceguard and so it was in retaliation O'Neill hit back...why else would he? So BOTH and that is important for you to comprehend...BOTH should have been sent off. It was either TWO yellows or TWO reds which is why Honan also got booked with O'Neill...proof is in the pudding Sasol whether your a Clare man a Cork man or a feking African man...both were deserving of the same punishment - a strike is a strike. Here is the proof of Honan's strike - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYUrGdRVsDk you can see him swinging his hurley across O'Neill (a strike) at 11.08 and AGAIN at 11.39 and AGAIN at 11.44. Granted O'Neill's was more blatant and obvious both are "swipes of the hurley" (which the ref indicates) and both are reds!
2. Again you are incorrect - it was indeed handled on the ground by Kelly and what surer sign the referee was correct than Kelly or no-one from Clare arguing the decision? If he didn't touch it on the ground then why no complaint from Kelly and why does he in fact celebrate the save and accept the decision? This video is flawed in that it focuses on the wrong incident...the pick up has happened at this stage as O'Farrell was challenging the keeper at 0.12 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDBNRHt_HZE and you can hear the ref's whistle blowing before the legitimate pick up by Kelly later on in the clip so he was correct as a matter of fact it WAS handled on the ground as Clare players and keeper accepted. TV clearly shows he didnt pick it up off the ground AFTER he had already touched it on the ground should be the end of your sentence up there.
3. Every sideline takes on average 15-20 seconds to hit so this is a petty argument by yourself and the mighty John Bannon (a football ref) just looking for justification for the extra generous addition of 30 seconds. If it was the other way around you would be fuming at the extra 30 seconds added on by the ref. The first sideline as someone hinted the game was level so why would any side waste time and the second sideline it was infact the Clare keeper who wouldn't release the ball wasting about 10 seconds to give himself time to get back to goal. These are the facts. Check it out here if you need to rejog the memory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0u1kjhlHJ4
Just be fair in your assessment and stop looking for the sympathy vote. Clare deserved to win but Cork should have won! Roll on the replay.0 -
mr bungle. wrote: »re shane o Neill
i was talking to a fella that knows gavin well,gavin said to him that it was going to be two reds or two yellow,gavin was informed that honan struck o neill with the hurl first and that he didn't want to ruin the game with two reds so early on!
Thank you Mr Bungle...very interesting to hear this if it is true to word as that's what I and many others also believe. Honan struck first, O'Neill retaliated so it was to be the same punishment either 2 reds or 2 yellows! At least that's cleared up!;)0 -
I don't know which is worse, sasol's patethic attempts at wumming or you lads for taking the bait, the chap wouldn't know one end of a hurl from the other.0
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mr bungle. wrote: »re shane o Neill
i was talking to a fella that knows gavin well,gavin said to him that it was going to be two reds or two yellow,gavin was informed that honan struck o neill with the hurl first and that he didn't want to ruin the game with two reds so early on!
Chri.st almighty.
I was talking to a fella , who knows a man, who overheard a conversation at the back of the church.....
I'm glad thats all sorted. Thanks for clearing it up :rolleyes:0 -
http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/cork-have-no-issue-with-mcgrath-243572.html
Cork out playing mind games with James McGrath already. Trying to get another ref on board.
If Davy came out and commented on the ref before a big game, there would be uproar.0 -
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http://www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/cork-have-no-issue-with-mcgrath-243572.html
Cork out playing mind games with James McGrath already. Trying to get another ref on board.
If Davy came out and commented on the ref before a big game, there would be uproar.
You said that Barry Kelly, James Owens and Brian Gavin were guilty parties in this conspiracy theory of yours, but it was unclear whether you were alleging that James McGrath was in on it too. Seems that you have cleared up that he is as well as preparing a ready made excuse for yourselves should Cork pull off a huge shock and beat the new greatest team of all time on Saturday week.0
This discussion has been closed.
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