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Separate uniforms for GR.. Yes/No....
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If you read it you will see I said "one of the biggest" not "the biggest"
Read the Morris report and you will see that he indicates that constant change of management allowed the offending Gardai a free run. An officer who was more interested in policing than getting out of Donegal as quickly as possible would have seen what was going on.
When pay and conditions are undermined by the use of free labour then the Associations are correct to comment.
Do you think that the CIE/ESB etc. would allow a situation where volunteers come in and start doing their jobs?0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »
When pay and conditions are undermined by the use of free labour then the Associations are correct to comment.
Do you think that the CIE/ESB etc. would allow a situation where volunteers come in and start doing their jobs?
pay conditions are undermined by the massive hole in the public purse!0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »If you read it you will see I said "one of the biggest" not "the biggest"
Read the Morris report and you will see that he indicates that constant change of management allowed the offending Gardai a free run. An officer who was more interested in policing than getting out of Donegal as quickly as possible would have seen what was going on.
When pay and conditions are undermined by the use of free labour then the Associations are correct to comment.
Do you think that the CIE/ESB etc. would allow a situation where volunteers come in and start doing their jobs?
Ha, that's like saying the biggest financial problem this country faced was the imports from china. Yep it doesn't help but for God sake it didn't cause the problem.
Yep I read that report and am starting this new one Monday .... Part of my job to do so...
As for reserves taking from regulars... That is a red herring... You know that really, there would never been any recruitment in AGS over the last few years because the country was is broke. What the reserves done was to stop the government lay off Gardai ...
Like in the health sector which saw massive cuts in funding and staffing ... They would love extra help!!!! Hang on they do get it in the form of ALL THE VOLUNTARY ORGANISATIONS that help out 24/7 365... You don't here the IMNO giving out about them!0 -
Bluetop I know in my station. If I go out without a radio the full time member I am with always tells me to grab a radio and if I ever did go out without one they would go back and get one. An incident happened in the station a while back and only that the Reserve had a radio the situation could have been much worse.
I think it's in the FT members own interests to make sure not only dose the Reserve have a radio but other members, radios can malfunction or batteries die so always good to have another one there.0 -
Bluetop I know in my station. If I go out without a radio the full time member I am with always tells me to grab a radio and if I ever did go out without one they would go back and get one. An incident happened in the station a while back and only that the Reserve had a radio the situation could have been much worse.
I think it's in the FT members own interests to make sure not only dose the Reserve have a radio but other members, radios can malfunction or batteries die so always good to have another one there.
That is just one station what about all the rest of them ? can you say they are the same ...... just because one station does something correctly does not mean it follows thru to them all, as we all know too well what a reserve can do in one station would not be allowed in another, they are all different that is the biggest problem there is no set criteria across the board.
As for the radio problems there are 3000 unused units so 1400 could very easily be allocated to the reserve members as part of their PPE equipment its not as if they are going to be needed any time soon.0 -
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Santa Cruz wrote: »If you read it you will see I said "one of the biggest" not "the biggest"
Read the Morris report and you will see that he indicates that constant change of management allowed the offending Gardai a free run. An officer who was more interested in policing than getting out of Donegal as quickly as possible would have seen what was going on.
When pay and conditions are undermined by the use of free labour then the Associations are correct to comment.
Do you think that the CIE/ESB etc. would allow a situation where volunteers come in and start doing their jobs?
And... Doesn't bullying , intimidation etc come under conditions! The report points to this culture in AGS . A kinda boys club... I would like to refer to it as a wolf pack culture. As there are a lot of honest decent guards out there but the culture within AGS suppresses this.
Never see the associations raise any thing about that!
Except for the reserves uniform and all that... Red herring dribble!
I would gladly wear a different uniform now.. At least then the decent public could tell the difference between the regular guard and the reserve.
I certainly wouldn't like been tarred with the same brush with all these damming reports that are out and that are coming out.0 -
And... Doesn't bullying , intimidation etc come under conditions! The report points to this culture in AGS . A kinda boys club... I would like to refer to it as a wolf pack culture. As there are a lot of honest decent guards out there but the culture within AGS suppresses this.
Never see the associations raise any thing about that!
Except for the reserves uniform and all that... Red herring dribble!
I would gladly wear a different uniform now.. At least then the decent public could tell the difference between the regular guard and the reserve.
I certainly wouldn't like been tarred with the same brush with all these damming reports that are out and that are coming out.
Bluetop, that was not what I was getting at. But you are correct in what you are saying. If anything it just gos to show no one in AGS thinks of the Reserve.
Two cent we are all in the one boat sadly. Full timers good and bad, Reserves good and bad.
I work for a big organization there was a bit of uproar in the papers when staff decided to follow customers around the shop and taking pictures and videos of them, dose not mean we all do it (granted different gravity's of the situation). Same applies here all Garda are different majority of the time 90% are fine to deal with, some people are just born arseholes there's nothing you can do to change that.0 -
Bluetop, that was not what I was getting at. But you are correct in what you are saying. If anything it just gos to show no one in AGS thinks of the Reserve.
Same applies here all Garda are different majority of the time 90% are fine to deal with, some people are just born arseholes there's nothing you can do to change that.
So this gives them the right to do and say what they like, including the bullying tactics that some endure in some stations, i am not sure if you are living in another world to some of the reserves that do endure this, but as i have pointed out no two stations are the same in any aspects.
Its like a domino effect in stations once one person does something they all follow as they dont want to be seen as been different, i am totally glad now that all this has come out now as the guy on the radio has opened yet another can of worms for AGS, the whistle-blowers are coming out of the woodwork now.0 -
Here is the link for The Joe Duffy...
Check @ 23.16
https://vodhls.rasset.ie/manifest/audio/2014/0509/20140509_rteradio1-liveline-liveline_cl10279506_10281440_261_.m3u8
He is not the only one! Far play to him!!
We all go through some stuff... We should contact Joe Duffy... And put it on record! Up skill of powers was done 2yrs ago for me. A joke!!!!! They won't move on with sign off, until all those lazy GR's who have not done it...!! "As per HR said"
Radios are hard to get....
And with regards to a change in uniform...We would be sitting ducks!! With no support! It's bad enough now!0 -
Mc Jakester wrote: »Here is the link for The Joe Duffy...
Check @ 23.16
https://vodhls.rasset.ie/manifest/audio/2014/0509/20140509_rteradio1-liveline-liveline_cl10279506_10281440_261_.m3u8
He is not the only one! Far play to him!!
We all go through some stuff... We should contact Joe Duffy... And put it on record! Up skill of powers was done 2yrs ago for me. A joke!!!!! They won't move on with sign off, until all those lazy GR's who have not done it...!! "As per HR said"
Radios are hard to get....
And with regards to a change in uniform...We would be sitting ducks!! With no support! It's bad enough now!
This is only the tip of the iceberg now starting to rear its ugly head and about time too i say, at least now its getting some publicity.
If the lazy GR dont upskill they should be kept in the stations to do cctv etc.
Radios there is no shortage of radios they have over 3000 unused radios sitting in store rooms, they can get them for events quick enough so dont be fooled by that story shortage of radios.
Maybe thats what they want for us to be the duck's, if AGSI & GRA had their way we would be wearing Bright orange with big letters on it saying Target.0 -
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So this gives them the right to do and say what they like, including the bullying tactics that some endure in some stations, i am not sure if you are living in another world to some of the reserves that do endure this, but as i have pointed out no two stations are the same in any aspects.
Its like a domino effect in stations once one person does something they all follow as they dont want to be seen as been different, i am totally glad now that all this has come out now as the guy on the radio has opened yet another can of worms for AGS, the whistle-blowers are coming out of the woodwork now.
Someone can't take a bit of slagging so goes off crying to Joe Duffy. Do you think that will endear them to the full timers. If they can't manage to deal with it maybe they are in the wrong place. How do they think they will deal with confrontation on the street if they can't stand up to a bully boy. You will find bully boys in every profession but if you take them on they usually go away0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »Someone can't take a bit of slagging so goes off crying to Joe Duffy. Do you think that will endear them to the full timers. If they can't manage to deal with it maybe they are in the wrong place. How do they think they will deal with confrontation on the street if they can't stand up to a bully boy. You will find bully boys in every profession but if you take them on they usually go away
Again I fear for the future if this is the attitude that prevails!
Slagging is another word for bullying. It's one person making fun at another persons situation.
Ah sure, it was only a bit of slagging...
Mental health issues are serious so slagging to one can be bullying to another.
Please spare a bit of time and go on to the D.O.H website and look up what is deemed to be bullying and harassment ....
You expect that crap of thugs out on the beat but off your own is totally unexceptable under any circumstance... It should NEVER be accepted.
It's like slagging off other races... THATS NOT SLAGGING THATS BEEN A RACIEST.
You have basically shown me that you really don't understand the nuts and bolts of this complex situation and are looking at things in a one dimensional perspective ...0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »
Do you think that will endear them to the full timers.
exact example of the boys club mentality - typical narrow minded country view. no wonder the force is in turmoil
his hardwork, professionalism, positive contribution and spirit of volunteerism should endear him to fulltimers not a neck like a jockeys bollox0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »Someone can't take a bit of slagging so goes off crying to Joe Duffy. Do you think that will endear them to the full timers. If they can't manage to deal with it maybe they are in the wrong place. How do they think they will deal with confrontation on the street if they can't stand up to a bully boy. You will find bully boys in every profession but if you take them on they usually go away
Slagging is one thing, we can all take a bit of banter thats not a problem for some people, but been left to sit on a chair for hours, or walking a beat with a statue that is a different kettle of fish, FT refusing to work with a RG because they are part time, what other industry would you see that happen in, there are lots of Companies have part time staff what do you think if you said to the boss i am not working with them, i can tell you now it would be work with them or get your coat simple.
What we are dealing with here is peer pressure from other FT members that are possible staunch GRA reps or members forcing their will upon other members, this is due to 8yrs of the GRA and the AGSI bashing them at every opportunity at meeting at their conferences, this is the first year the GRA have not had a mandate on the Reserves and i for one could not believe it was true, but hay sure the AGSI was going to have their bash at it, when FT members see this from their own representative body what message does this portray, it portrays contempt for the reserve force and shows at any cost we need to get rid of these people, they make the members think the reserves are costing money, costing them overtime when in actual fact they are not costing the service nothing, the overtime myth is just that there is none, and there is no money to pay it either, so they make up the shortfall using reserve members, when an event takes place there is a budget allocated to it, now from what i hear ever year that budget is cut down, so when the event has allocated the money for the FT members there is always not going to be enough so they make that short fall up with Part time members, so there is no overtime lost, there just is not enough money to pay it, so unless you want to do it for nothing like the part timers are let someone know you will do it for nothing, how many FT members will then put their hands up............. ??.
So the part time members come in give up their free time and are also watching the FT back if something does kick off, do you think its fair they are left sitting in a chair for most of the night regardless of powers they are still there under the same threat as a FT member yet they do it, do you think its fair that FT members refuse to work with them, let them in the car or van, ignore them when they are on the beat with them, remember one day you might rely on that part time member and if you treat them badly who knows what could happen........ will they be there for you then think about it, so remember the next time you are assigned a part time member treat them as you would like to be treated by others, next time they could be saving your life or helping you in a bad situation we just dont know what is around the next corner.
Santa Cruz i just hope to god i never have to work with you or your type, and if it takes people to air their views at the treatment they get on air great lets do that, lets tell everyone we are human like the rest of the people, we are not robots with no emotions or spirits, that we can turn these off when we arrive at the station, or on the beat.0 -
So this gives them the right to do and say what they like, including the bullying tactics that some endure in some stations, i am not sure if you are living in another world to some of the reserves that do endure this, but as i have pointed out no two stations are the same in any aspects.
Its like a domino effect in stations once one person does something they all follow as they dont want to be seen as been different, i am totally glad now that all this has come out now as the guy on the radio has opened yet another can of worms for AGS, the whistle-blowers are coming out of the woodwork now.
I am not disagreeing with you bluetop, just that I think you should ease up on giving the idea that all full time members are disrespectful to us.
I'm not living in a separate planet, I have been sat in the station for about an hour waiting, but in that time I just asked other members if I could tag along with them, these members that say yes are usually the best and I enjoy going out with them.
I have had only had one car fly off without me, now that could have been a mistake. I asked him could I come along with him and he said he would catch up with me in ten and flew off in a car. I just found it quite funny to be honest, that if a grown man could not say to my face 'sorry I am a bit busy or no' and be childish about things by driving off. On the other hand he could have been busy got a call or genuinely forgot about me these things happen. Where I work at the moment has a big work force and I interact with the public so I have come across arseholes in the past and present, there all the same and I can tell them a mile off, best practice around these people is just to keep it basic conversation and don't be made a fool out of.
But at the end of the day, the Reserve needs to be overhauled and given a purpose this assisting the full timers has everyone confused as hell, no one knows what assisting them means, we have no powers only thing we do is prevent assaults or cool situations down by there been more numbers.0 -
Mc Jakester wrote: »“We can perhaps laugh at the one of the YouTube hits in 2013 of the dancing reserve at Independence in Mitchelstown but was it clear from this video that it was a Garda Reserve on the stage and not a full time member? I don’t think so.”
Right enough, that lad didn't do the Gardai Reserve any favours0 -
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There is another reservist on Joe Duffy now. Currently alleging that his stab vest that was left in the station was 'misplaced' which prevented him from going on patrol for two months.
EDIT: He has clarified that he has since left the reserves.0 -
Sierra Oscar wrote: »There is another reservist on Joe Duffy now. Currently alleging that his stab vest that was left in the station was stolen which prevented him from going on patrol for two months.
That's one way of handling a liability.0 -
Moan moan moan. Reserves doing themselves no favours here on liveline. Giving out that they didn't receive benifitial treatment in the full time recruitment.0
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Kaizersoze81 wrote: »Moan moan moan. Reserves doing themselves no favours here on liveline. Giving out that they didn't receive benifitial treatment in the full time recruitment.
I was listening to the two Reserves or resigned Reserves and the retired Detective Sergeant, again the myth of Reserves robbing overtime.
Again I have said before, the Garda charge a rate for policing events, so regardless if the Reserve is there or not the budget will be used up. This budget includes everything from overtime to paying for petrol use of cars, incident control centers etc..
The Phoenix Park gig that ended in disaster cost 200,000€ ' You’ll find some very forensic claims here about reductions in garda numbers to police the Swedish House Mafia show (page 19; there is, however, no breakdown in terms of public duty vs non-public duty gardai for the Phoenix Park shows, though sources indicate to OTR that MCD were charged €200,000 for policing). ' LINK
So that's 200,000€ to spend and after overtime is agreed Reserves will be asked if they would like to help Police the event.
If anyone is robbing overtime it's higher up the chain and they would be doing so under the pre tense that Reserves will show up, which is not good planning as some Reserves may not show up leaving the event under policed.
I mean we have jobs bridge people in where I work, we have work experience people in work. I work the same hours when they are there and I work the same hours when they are not there. The company won't give out extra hours or change my contract regardless, this is not unique to the company I work for it's a cost saving measure nearly all company's or organizations use that have a budget.
Sure look at any other industry that is struggling with workers and have no volunteers to help, they are not getting any extra staff or overtime, the reason is purely financial. Sure why would someone in the board room care what you have or don't have, all they want to see is the figure on there sheet in the green. The sad thing is, even if it is in the green that figure can always be better so next year the budget is dropped and conditions get even worse for people on the ground.
I mean I couldn't see how if the Reserve was disbanded tomorrow conditions or pay would get better for members. That money will be saved then come the budget that excess will be shaved off so your back where you started.
Can I just add also, I am sure it is different for full timers looking at the Reserve, I am not a Garda and I don't know it all the ins and outs of the job, but I can say the above I have noted in all jobs. But I think it's down to the full time members to either push to keep and support us or push to end it. I understand the frustration members have of us coming in and having to take us out but I can honestly see the benefit it could have if we were accepted fully by everyone in AGS.0 -
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Kaizersoze81 wrote: »Moan moan moan. Reserves doing themselves no favours here on liveline. Giving out that they didn't receive benifitial treatment in the full time recruitment.
While ye probably know my feelings about the Reserve any fair minded person would have to accept that the signals were given out by Commissioners and politicians that Reserve membership would be an advantage when recruitment commenced. I can understand the anger and frustration when it didn't work that way.
It was not beneficial to the introduction of Reserves that they came in at a time that the pay and conditions of full time members were under attack.
msg11 comments do not reflect the true position about the use of Reserves instead of full time Gardai.0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »msg11 comments do not reflect the true position about the use of Reserves instead of full time Gardai.
Granted I did say that in my post, that it's from my perspective.
All that said it's constant circles on this issue and it's where I leave it and my guise on this site. I shall take the back benches going forward.
I wish everyone the best in where ever there interests, full time or part time.
msg11.0 -
Well it might not be my platform going on joe Duffy but all I can say is what did the full timers expect. You fling enough insults at a group of people like the GRA and AGSI did over the last 7 years then expect it back. I am just surprised it took this long.
The GRA has created from their own doing this!
I do hope change will come and a massive reform of AGS will happen and this should include getting rid of Gardai of all ranks from their position and installing new outside people to run the ship correctly ... Then introduce a rolling assessment of all Gardai ...0 -
An outside source to lead the force is a great idea
new leadership, new focus, new results0 -
Well well now it started with 1 reserve on joe duffy, and has increased to 4 so there is a lot of truth coming to light now, AGS is in turmoil all ranks included how can the public have any faith in the force any longer, there should be new blood from outside of the ranks of AGS to take charge of this and hopefully confidence can be restored before its damaged beyond repair.
Garda reserves should either be given powers fit for purpose or get rid of them simple, anyone that has done the up-skilling should move forward any one that has not done it after been give two lots of time scales should be asked to resign and let people who are willing to do the role in.
As for the refusal of FT members to work with some PT members this should be stamped out with immediate effect anyone that wont work with them should be put on report, more integration is what is needed and team building until this is done we are at nothing, how many more RG are going to come out of the woodwork and be on Joe Duffy till this is sorted GRA & AGSI you only have yourselves to blame on this one, for 8 long years you have be little d the reserve force and encouraged rank and file to do the same, senior management is also to blame for allowing this in the first instance but turned a blind eye and buried their heads in the sand knowing far too well this was going on, you have senior members in the park who are anti reserve sure where can you turn or who even, fix the problem thats all that is required and bring the force together as one force not a divided one.0 -
Well well now it started with 1 reserve on joe duffy, and has increased to 4 so there is a lot of truth coming to light now, AGS is in turmoil all ranks included how can the public have any faith in the force any longer, there should be new blood from outside of the ranks of AGS to take charge of this and hopefully confidence can be restored before its damaged beyond repair.
Garda reserves should either be given powers fit for purpose or get rid of them simple, anyone that has done the up-skilling should move forward any one that has not done it after been give two lots of time scales should be asked to resign and let people who are willing to do the role in.
As for the refusal of FT members to work with some PT members this should be stamped out with immediate effect anyone that wont work with them should be put on report, more integration is what is needed and team building until this is done we are at nothing, how many more RG are going to come out of the woodwork and be on Joe Duffy till this is sorted GRA & AGSI you only have yourselves to blame on this one, for 8 long years you have be little d the reserve force and encouraged rank and file to do the same, senior management is also to blame for allowing this in the first instance but turned a blind eye and buried their heads in the sand knowing far too well this was going on, you have senior members in the park who are anti reserve sure where can you turn or who even, fix the problem thats all that is required and bring the force together as one force not a divided one.
I'm sure Aunty Frances and Aunty Noirin will make things better0 -
Santa Cruz wrote: »I'm sure Aunty Frances and Aunty Noirin will make things better
Well intermin commis won't be in the job long enough to make a difference as it will be filled by an outsider ... Then the fun will start with changes.. Haven't been wrong so far... AGS is in for some culture shock!!!
As for the minister .. She along with the current government will be gone sooner rather than later0 -
Well intermin commis won't be in the job long enough to make a difference as it will be filled by an outsider ... Then the fun will start with changes.. Haven't been wrong so far... AGS is in for some culture shock!!!
As for the minister .. She along with the current government will be gone sooner rather than later
Looking forward to this if it happens !0 -
Well intermin commis won't be in the job long enough to make a difference as it will be filled by an outsider ... Then the fun will start with changes.. Haven't been wrong so far... AGS is in for some culture shock!!!
As for the minister .. She along with the current government will be gone sooner rather than later
Dream on honey. The more things change the more they stay the same. If you believe anything different you are a fool0 -
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Open competition for commissioner announced
few would be candidates on here no doubt0
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