Could this spell the start of the end for FF

raymon · 27-02-2012 7:37pm

Godge wrote: »

I am not a supporter of FF and hope they do badly but I wouldn't rely on this poll.

Point taken. The upcoming RedC poll should be interesting.

Chucky the tree · 27-02-2012 8:01pm

Fianna Fail have done very well so far, exceeded my expectations. If anything this is the start of the beginning. If Fianna Fail can run the country into near obvillion and still come out with 16% of the vote a year later then why would anyone expect them to do even worse as time goes by?

john reilly · 27-02-2012 9:22pm

bmaxi wrote: »

It makes my flesh creep to think that SF will ever form part of a government in this State but at this stage it looks inevitable. Labour deserve no better than what they are getting, they have betrayed their constituency. I would have expected no different from FG, even in good times they would have behaved the same way.

well sinn fein are the oldest party in ireland and what better way to show are appreciation to them, for standing up against the british opression when the rest of the parties where willing to standby while irish people were tortured and killed

john reilly · 27-02-2012 9:25pm

raymon wrote: »

And the FF whinging continues .

This time they are complaining that Rte has a bias against them.

In their arrogance the don't realise that 84% of the country has a bias against them, except for 16% and a few FF shills in the Irish Independent and one in the Irish Times.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rte-news-bias-favours-laboursf-ff-inquiry-3031981.html

Come on Fianna Fail , when will your whinging stop

in fairness they are not the only whingers

[Jackass] · 27-02-2012 9:38pm

Given the tribal nature of Irish politics (which will ultimately cripple us indefinitely), the FF vote will never ever go away, and they will and still are the biggest party in the country. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's like people who support a football team...

If Man Utd got relegated from the premier league, no matter what, there would always be that hard core support, and the bandwagoners might abandon them for a short while, but as soon as they're back up in contention, they'll all come flocking back.

It's pathetic, but my honest belief of how Irish politics works.

I think they'll be back in if not by the next general election, with out question by the following one. God help us all.

RandomName2 · 28-02-2012 12:02am

Fenian Army wrote: »

Where do people like you get crap like that from? I hope you don't really think crap like that, if you do you have serious problems

The fact that the party has a military wing?

Okay - decommissioned, but former members are a mainstay of their organisation. Their inability to confront this heritage is also worthy of serious consideration.

The fact, also, that decommissioning and entering the Dail were merely pragmatic considerations rather than policy also rankles with me. The fact also that a number of murderers have been promoted by the party is also somewhat disturbing.

Their international ambitions - to isolate Ireland from the EU whilst attempting to generate a hegemony with Northern Ireland, is not one that, at least at face value, would appear benevolent.

This is all notwithstanding their hard-left economic and social policies.

john reilly · 28-02-2012 12:08am

RandomName2 wrote: »

The fact that the party has a military wing?

Okay - decommissioned, but former members are a mainstay of their organisation. Their inability to confront this heritage is also worthy of serious consideration.

The fact, also, that decommissioning and entering the Dail were merely pragmatic considerations rather than policy also rankles with me. The fact also that a number of murderers have been promoted by the party is also somewhat disturbing.

Their international ambitions - to isolate Ireland from the EU whilst attempting to generate a hegemony with Northern Ireland, is not one that, at least at face value, would appear benevolent.

This is all notwithstanding their hard-left economic and social policies.

from this alone they get my vote

Eggy Baby! · 28-02-2012 12:20am

john reilly wrote: »

well sinn fein are the oldest party in ireland and what better way to show are appreciation to them, for standing up against the british opression when the rest of the parties where willing to standby while irish people were tortured and killed

Man Sinn Fein went through loads of splits since it was founded. SF today kept the name to be associated with past nationalists. In reality it shares little heritage with Griffiths, Collins etc.

K-9 · 28-02-2012 12:37am

Mod

Thread is about the latest opinion poll. Could posters try and base it on relatively recent events and not comparisons with Collins et al.

RandomName2 · 28-02-2012 1:39am

john reilly wrote: »

well sinn fein are the oldest party in ireland and what better way to show are appreciation to them, for standing up against the british opression when the rest of the parties where willing to standby while irish people were tortured and killed

+1 as per what K9 said.

I could call myself Brian Boru and be both the oldest man in Ireland and the greatest representative of ant-Viking endeavours/ bank bailouts.

Going on about the 1910s and 1920s is as anachronistic as it is off-topic.

Liam Byrne · 28-02-2012 2:09am

RandomName2 wrote: »

john reilly wrote: »

well sinn fein are the oldest party in ireland and what better way to show are appreciation to them, for standing up against the british opression when the rest of the parties where willing to standby while irish people were tortured and killed

+1 as per what K9 said.

I could call myself Brian Boru and be both the oldest man in Ireland and the greatest representative of ant-Viking endeavours/ bank bailouts.

Going on about the 1910s and 1920s is as anachronistic as it is off-topic.

It's useful at deflecting from the fact that SF are as bad as the others, whether claiming for oil or print cartridges - if you keep people focussed on 1916 then they won't notice what you're up to nowadays.

patwicklow · 28-02-2012 2:14am

Well it will be great news tree hungers are gone PD,s who ever they were are gone, and FF yes will be gone never to return Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.............................anit it bloody great.............

Foghladh · 28-02-2012 2:33am

raymon wrote: »

What do you mean "show something new" ??

What could they possibly "show" to gain back some of the "swing" vote ? I am sincerely interested.

I watched Callearly's press conference today and I still don't know what he was mumbling on about. What a shockingly poor representative .

I can't see what the FFers could do or say to make up for the suffering they have caused.

I think that they need to show a break from the past and by that I mean leadership. I don't think that Micheail Martin can ever lead Fianna Fail to a decent showing because he is closely associated with all that went before and can never escape that.
That association aside, I don't believe that he's a particularly charismatic leader anyway and does nothing to further the FF profile to the good. I don't even know if the personality exists within the FF ranks but, if they could find it, then with the party structure that exists they could really move on.

In one way I'd nearly say that this has given Fianna Fail an opportunity to renew itself. If they could consign a lot of the deadwood to the back shed and take the chance to promote new blood with no baggage then they could go far. I believe they have the time to rebuild. They'd be mad to think of seriously contesting the next election and in my opinion would be far better to work the local ground first. This term of government will always be the clean-up term as far as the voter is concerned. After the next election however FG, and whoever their partners will be, will find themselves more answerable to their own policies.

Now having said that I don't believe for a second that FF will take this chance to regenerate. Party loyalty in Ireland is next to family and all parties here have a habit of sticking with their leaders until the writing is on the wall. But if they did I see no reason why the average voter in Ireland wouldn't a first preference vote in 5 years time. That's the nature of the swing from what I can see

K-9 · 28-02-2012 2:43am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's useful at deflecting from the fact that SF are as bad as the others, whether claiming for oil or print cartridges - if you keep people focussed on 1916 then they won't notice what you're up to nowadays.

patwicklow wrote: »

Well it will be great news tree hungers are gone PD,s who ever they were are gone, and FF yes will be gone never to return Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.............................anit it bloody great.............

Mod

Maybe we could focus on the nowadays part then Liam, as per the previous warning?

And maybe a slightly higher level of posts in general.

uberalles · 28-02-2012 3:05am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Fianna Fail have done very well so far, exceeded my expectations. If anything this is the start of the beginning. If Fianna Fail can run the country into near obvillion and still come out with 16% of the vote a year later then why would anyone expect them to do even worse as time goes by?

+1

How do they have 1% ?
It amazes me.

We would give the 3 reich a chance to control our affairs here ........

Oh wait we already have

Liam Byrne · 28-02-2012 3:24am

Maybe I should have been clearer earlier.......FF are without doubt the most incompetent and ignorant shower of self-serving leeches we have on offer, pretending that they didn't multiply our current woes tenfold.

However

Kenny & Varadkar break their own pay caps while reneging on their promises and maintaining the status quo

Quinn claims 5 times his mileage

O'Snodaigh claims €50,000 on ink

Which then brings a possible explanation for FF into focus as there is no decent ethical and accountability-minded alternative to vote for.

I certainly don't want FF back and wouldn't forgive anyone who helped them back.

However the way the others are acting also rules them out, and if people like myself end up not being able to vote in good conscience, it won't take much for FF to recover.

raymon · 28-02-2012 11:07am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Maybe I should have been clearer earlier.......FF are without doubt the most incompetent and ignorant shower of self-serving leeches we have on offer, pretending that they didn't multiply our current woes tenfold.

However

Kenny & Varadkar break their own pay caps while reneging on their promises and maintaining the status quo

Quinn claims 5 times his mileage

O'Snodaigh claims €50,000 on ink

Which then brings a possible explanation for FF into focus as there is no decent ethical and accountability-minded alternative to vote for.

I certainly don't want FF back and wouldn't forgive anyone who helped then back.

However the way the others are acting also rules them out, and if people like myself end up not being able to vote in good conscience, it won't take much for FF to recover.

I never bought in to Sinn Fein's faux " frugal working man" mask .

Pearse Doherty campaigned against politicians expenses , but once he had his foot in the door started racking up huge expenses himself.

This is one of the reasons I called SF success in the polls "bad news " in the OP

golfball37 · 28-02-2012 12:32pm

raymon wrote: »

I never bought in to Sinn Fein's faux " frugal working man" mask .

Pearse Doherty campaigned against politicians expenses , but once he had his foot in the door started racking up huge expenses himself.

This is one of the reasons I called SF success in the polls "bad news " in the OP

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Pearse Doherty and every other SF TD has a take home gross of 34k. I know they still cost the State the same as the rest of the salary goes into SF coffers but that sort of sacrifice doesn't go unnoticed by me and a few other voters.

raymon · 28-02-2012 12:46pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Whether you choose to believe it or not, Pearse Doherty and every other SF TD has a take home gross of 34k. I know they still cost the State the same as the rest of the salary goes into SF coffers but that sort of sacrifice doesn't go unnoticed by me and a few other voters.

I don't care if they give some of their salary to the Hare Krisnas or spend it down the pub on champagne, it still costs me the same as a taxpayer.

My post still stands ... doherty IS a hypocrite , slagging off politicians who claim high expenses and then claiming huge expenses himself a year or two later. Didn't take him long

http://pearsedoherty.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=2

I see SF poll success as bad news.

golfball37 · 28-02-2012 1:10pm

raymon wrote: »

I don't care if they give some of their salary to the Hare Krisnas or spend it down the pub on champagne, it still costs me the same as a taxpayer.

My post still stands ... doherty IS a hypocrite , slagging off politicians who claim high expenses and then claiming huge expenses himself a year or two later. Didn't take him long

http://pearsedoherty.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=2

I see SF poll success as bad news.

Good for you. I vote for someone who makes the token gesture in a personal capacity. Its gonna cost the taxpayer the same anyway but at least with Sf and ULA's they can personally claim they are not on inflated salaries. I don't see too many of them living high on the hog which means they have something in common with those they are meant to be representing.

All of those expenses were receipted at least not unvouched like most others. Its still too high of course, i will certainly agree on that.

RandomName2 · 28-02-2012 5:06pm

golfball37 wrote: »

Good for you. I vote for someone who makes the token gesture in a personal capacity. Its gonna cost the taxpayer the same anyway but at least with Sf and ULA's they can personally claim they are not on inflated salaries. I don't see too many of them living high on the hog which means they have something in common with those they are meant to be representing.

All of those expenses were receipted at least not unvouched like most others. Its still too high of course, i will certainly agree on that.

Would you really say the same thing if Bertie Ahern donated a great deal of his pension to Fianna Fail? :rolleyes:

john reilly · 28-02-2012 9:08pm

raymon wrote: »

I don't care if they give some of their salary to the Hare Krisnas or spend it down the pub on champagne, it still costs me the same as a taxpayer.

My post still stands ... doherty IS a hypocrite , slagging off politicians who claim high expenses and then claiming huge expenses himself a year or two later. Didn't take him long

http://pearsedoherty.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2010-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=2

I see SF poll success as bad news.

if sinn fein have a policy to minimise expeneses fair play. but like every normal person in the world if they are there on tap you will take them. otherwise you are giving the opposition an advantage

Foghladh · 28-02-2012 9:18pm

john reilly wrote: »

if sinn fein have a policy to minimise expeneses fair play. but like every normal person in the world if they are there on tap you will take them. otherwise you are giving the opposition an advantage

In which case it isn't so much a plan to minimise expenses as a publicity gimmick. Or just plain bulls**t, take your pick

john reilly · 28-02-2012 9:37pm

Foghladh wrote: »

In which case it isn't so much a plan to minimise expenses as a publicity gimmick. Or just plain bulls**t, take your pick

how do you make that out. you change the law regarding expenses and everybody is on a level playing field. same as if you want to save money you dont walk down the street handing money out.

Liam Byrne · 28-02-2012 11:00pm

john reilly wrote: »

Foghladh wrote: »

In which case it isn't so much a plan to minimise expenses as a publicity gimmick. Or just plain bulls**t, take your pick

how do you make that out. you change the law regarding expenses and everybody is on a level playing field. same as if you want to save money you dont walk down the street handing money out.

If you think something is wrong then you don't do it. It doesn't have to be illegal to recognise that something is wrong.

For example, I don't think copping off with someone else's g/f is illegal, but that doesn't make it OK or make someone who does suitable for voting; and they're also highly unlikely to fix a law if they are "availing" of its income.

raymon · 28-02-2012 11:42pm

john reilly wrote: »

if sinn fein have a policy to minimise expeneses fair play. but like every normal person in the world if they are there on tap you will take them. otherwise you are giving the opposition an advantage

Yes Sinn Fein members have campaigned ad nauseum against high expenses .

But fast forward a year or two and you find the same SF guys at the top of the expenses list

Given the ink-gate revelations, my OP about Sinn Fein rise being a bad thing is appropriate

I don't think that Snodaighs shennagins is good news for Fianna Fail though. Conscientious voters are unlikely to go back to FF from SF, given their murky dealings.

So good news all round then ........ FF slipping in the polls ........ Michael Martin slipping sharply in the polls.......... SF soon to be slipping in the polls

Foghladh · 28-02-2012 11:57pm

raymon wrote: »

Yes Sinn Fein members have campaigned ad nauseum against high expenses .

But fast forward a year or two and you find the same SF guys at the top of the expenses list

Given the ink-gate revelations, my OP about Sinn Fein rise being a bad thing is appropriate

I don't think that Snodaighs shennagins is good news for Fianna Fail though. Conscientious voters are unlikely to go back to FF from SF, given their murky dealings.

So good news all round then ........ FF slipping in the polls ........ Michael Martin slipping sharply in the polls.......... SF soon to be slipping in the polls

So with all these setbacks by SF and FF I guess all those conscientious voters are going to throw their full weight behind FG? Don't forget that according to the poll Lab were on the slip too. I don't think there's another party left in the state. Well, unless they all turn lefty and follow the ULA I suppose.

john reilly · 29-02-2012 12:04am

raymon wrote: »

Yes Sinn Fein members have campaigned ad nauseum against high expenses .

But fast forward a year or two and you find the same SF guys at the top of the expenses list

Given the ink-gate revelations, my OP about Sinn Fein rise being a bad thing is appropriate

I don't think that Snodaighs shennagins is good news for Fianna Fail though. Conscientious voters are unlikely to go back to FF from SF, given their murky dealings.

So good news all round then ........ FF slipping in the polls ........ Michael Martin slipping sharply in the polls.......... SF soon to be slipping in the polls

what difference does any of this make, so people who never have and never will vote sinn fein. can all agree they never will. so sinn fein lose nothing. wanting sinn fein to do badly and them doing so are two different things. I can see the next elections being a painful time for you

Zynks · 29-02-2012 12:35am

Party politics and the whip system are badly flawed in my view, and it is great to see them going down one by one... PDs, Greens, FF, next Labour and FG. SF is likely to be as efficient in the harakiri process, though we should hopefully see first a proper political reform that puts country interests ahead of party BS.

I intend to vote independent until this system is changed. If an Irish Pirate Party shows up I will also consider it.

raymon · 29-02-2012 9:46am

john reilly wrote: »

what difference does any of this make, so people who never have and never will vote sinn fein. can all agree they never will. so sinn fein lose nothing. wanting sinn fein to do badly and them doing so are two different things. I can see the next elections being a painful time for you

I am not talking about me .... I am not going to vote SF . I am talking about Sinn Fein prospective voters.

The mask is slipping

The loudest campaigner and crusader against TDs expenses , Pearse Doherty claimed 51,808 euros expenses . Only three tds had higher expenses out of 167 . In 2009 he named and shamed the top claimants. Only 2 years later he is nearly the highest claimant.

His running mate Jonathan o Brien was just a few euros behind him at 51,179 euros and Mac Lochlan at 51,174 and Mcclennan at 50,540.

Even Colreavy claimed 50,225 euros.

Hypocrites

Could this spell the start of the end for FF

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