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New Children's Hospital at Mater site

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Could the alignment of the Luas BXD line be altered to place it nearer the hospital? Then you have connections to all the transport links (Rail, Red & Green lines). Since the luas link is possibly the only project that may proceed, hopefully at the same time as this, then it would work.
    And the site in my opinion is perfect, people keeping saying about it not being a Dublin hospital - 1 in 3 people on this island live in Dublin. And all transport links end in city centre. With the M50 and city centre transport links, it's a happy medium on the Mater site.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Yeah but this is supposed to be a national hospital, not just a facility to suit people living in Dublin city or with handy access to Dublin commuter services.



    There's a quote in todays indo, supposedly from a paramedic (in no way an official position):

    Bad day for the city when ABP make a daft decision to turn down the design on height. Dublin is a capital city, not a village.

    As for the location. Sure it was a political decision but I don't think it's any better or worse than other suggested locations -especially the one along the N7 between the Red Cow and Newlands. Now, that's a bad location on every front.

    Even without proposed tram and metro lines, the MAter site is reasonably well served by bus services with a QBC adjacent to it. It's within easy reach of either mainline rail stations. I'm sure that additional routes offering direct services could be added.

    The reality is that the majority of people will still travel by car and the Mater site is certainly not inconvenient in that regard.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    This might be completely off the wall, but what about St Vincent's Hospital in D4? It's close to public transport (Dublin Bus and DART), it's a major hospital and it's generally a more tranquil setting than a city centre location. Plus, they recently built a new private hospital, which means the previous 200 bed private hospital could be refurbished and extended instead of being a completely new build.

    The only access I problem I can see is at rush hour, but you'll probably get that anywhere. As I say, it might be completely off the wall, but it's the one location I never see mentioned when alternatives are raised, and I think it having a presumably vacant private hospital would mean it could get up and running much quicker.

    As it happens there is a new empty hospital almost right beside Vincents. It could easily be linked in with the Vincents site.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    As it happens there is a new empty hospital almost right beside Vincents. It could easily be linked in with the Vincents site.

    What new empty hospital?

    The Private moved in to their new building in October 2010 and while the former Private is empty, its ancient and is intended to be renovated for extra space for SVUH.

    There may be something I'm missing here, though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭John.Icy


    Was hoping a daring high rise building would finally get the go ahead. Maybe this isn't the one but god damn Dublin is a pretty ugly city and if the money is there for certain projects, grab it by the balls and go for it. I'm pretty ashamed sometimes driving around Dublin, thinking to myself, this is the best city we have to offer? Granted it probably just pales in comparison to other major cities, but I think a few very modern buildings would go well in the city, and stop worring about damaging the vicotrian/edwardian/whateverian look the city tries to maintain. We are finally getting better though, but we're still abit tentative when it comes to daring buildings.

    Back to the subject matter, I do hope this get's the go ahead eventually.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    I'm all for protecting the period buildings, but there is no reason we cannot have a mix of modern midrise and restored classics. There is little to no view obstruction from a building the size of the proposed hospital.

    If anything, getting a nice looking building there would revitalise the area and get people to start restoring the period buildings in that (fairly shítty looking) area.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I'd rather see this somewhere like Tallaght. Tallaght is very handy for the Motorway system and thats more relvant to most people travelling with a sick child than trains or buses.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    corktina wrote: »
    I'd rather see this somewhere like Tallaght. Tallaght is very handy for the Motorway system and thats more relvant to most people travelling with a sick child than trains or buses.

    Tallaght Hospital site is crammed as it stands.

    Obviously there's sites elsewhere in Tallaght (seeing as that describes a massive area) but they lose the advantages of being co-sited


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    corktina wrote: »
    I'd rather see this somewhere like Tallaght. Tallaght is very handy for the Motorway system and thats more relvant to most people travelling with a sick child than trains or buses.

    Tallaght would be a good spot. I think there is a lot of academic politics involved in the decision too. It it goes to the Mater it comes under UCD control, if it goes to St James or Tallaght then TCD.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    MYOB wrote: »
    Tallaght Hospital site is crammed as it stands.

    Obviously there's sites elsewhere in Tallaght (seeing as that describes a massive area) but they lose the advantages of being co-sited

    There's loads of space.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=tallaght&hl=en&ll=53.291342,-6.375273&spn=0.001818,0.005284&sll=54.047077,-7.316876&sspn=0.000899,0.002642&hnear=Tallaght,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=18


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  • Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    MYOB wrote: »
    corktina wrote: »
    I'd rather see this somewhere like Tallaght. Tallaght is very handy for the Motorway system and thats more relvant to most people travelling with a sick child than trains or buses.

    Tallaght Hospital site is crammed as it stands.

    Obviously there's sites elsewhere in Tallaght (seeing as that describes a massive area) but they lose the advantages of being co-sited

    Lots of cheap warehousing beside Tallaght hospital that can be CPOed to extend site to meet new needs.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011



    That site wasn't cleared to sit empty. Think its already at least partially built on anyway. Google Maps data is often very outdated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    MYOB wrote: »
    That site wasn't cleared to sit empty. Think its already at least partially built on anyway. Google Maps data is often very outdated.

    I'm guessing it's either a ghost estate or more cheapo warehousing. Eitherway there is plenty of space beside Tallaght hospital.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'm guessing it's either a ghost estate or more cheapo warehousing. Eitherway there is plenty of space beside Tallaght hospital.

    Warehousing / active industrial units. Not necessarily "cheapo" and also not something you really want to be forcing small businesses out of in a recession.

    There is no vacant and no state-owned land available at Tallaght.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    MYOB wrote: »
    Warehousing / active industrial units. Not necessarily "cheapo" and also not something you really want to be forcing small businesses out of in a recession.

    There is no vacant and no state-owned land available at Tallaght.

    The actual owners of the warehousing units would bite the hand off the state if the children's hospital was moved there. There is also acres of empty light industrial units in Dublin.

    Your argument that the state can only build on greenfield or land they already own is weak.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The actual owners of the warehousing units would bite the hand off the state if the children's hospital was moved there. There is also acres of empty light industrial units in Dublin.

    Your argument that the state can only build on greenfield or land they already own is weak.

    No owner ever bites the hand off the state as it rather ruins their negotiating position for the CPO.

    We need this built quickly, a CPO process that will involve businesses moving out is not quick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    MYOB wrote: »
    No owner ever bites the hand off the state as it rather ruins their negotiating position for the CPO.

    We need this built quickly, a CPO process that will involve businesses moving out is not quick.

    Of course nobody in business wants to move given the inconvenience.

    There's actually quite a number of units for sale in Cookstown Industrial Estate (which backs onto Tallaght hospital). CPO likely wouldn't be necessary as deals could be done to pay off companies to move to bigger units or just take a cash payout.

    Here's 3 close ones:
    http://www.daft.ie/searchcommercial.daft?id=65165&s[pt_id]=4
    http://www.daft.ie/searchcommercial.daft?id=81500&s[pt_id]=4
    http://www.daft.ie/searchcommercial.daft?id=87814&s[pt_id]=4

    The last one actually is for 5 units.

    Really I think you being quite defeatist in your arguments. No complex projects are easy or without their problems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    robd wrote: »
    Also I don't know what you know about Dublin city centre but it certainly does not stretch as far to the far side of Dorset Street. Mater site is not in city centre. It's actually in Dublin 7.
    Ah, come on... it's not "city centre" but it's literally across the road from city centre. That's a slightly ridiculous statement - it's Dublin, not Tokyo. The Mater is city centre whether it's Dublin 7 or not; can you walk there from OCS in 10 minutes? :pac: It's city enough bloody centre.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 177 ✭✭LaFlammeRouge


    Ah, come on... it's not "city centre" but it's literally across the road from city centre. That's a slightly ridiculous statement - it's Dublin, not Tokyo. The Mater is city centre whether it's Dublin 7 or not; can you walk there from OCS in 10 minutes? :pac: It's city enough bloody centre.

    If you got on most Dublin Bus's that said city centre on the front you wouldn't get close to the Mater.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    If you got on most Dublin Bus's that said city centre on the front you wouldn't get close to the Mater.
    :facepalm: are you kidding? What about Parnell Square? What exactly is your definition of "close"?

    If you want to be that pedantic that "city centre" is across the road from the Mater then I don't know why we're even discussing this. Build some shítty, ugly, 2 story sprawling brown box anywhere in the suburbs and let the city die a peaceful death already.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 723 ✭✭✭bfocusd


    John.Icy wrote: »
    Was hoping a daring high rise building would finally get the go ahead. Maybe this isn't the one but god damn Dublin is a pretty ugly city and if the money is there for certain projects, grab it by the balls and go for it. I'm pretty ashamed sometimes driving around Dublin, thinking to myself, this is the best city we have to offer? Granted it probably just pales in comparison to other major cities, but I think a few very modern buildings would go well in the city, and stop worring about damaging the vicotrian/edwardian/whateverian look the city tries to maintain. We are finally getting better though, but we're still abit tentative when it comes to daring buildings.

    Back to the subject matter, I do hope this get's the go ahead eventually.

    Take a trip to the dock lands, around the Beckett bridge area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    bfocusd wrote: »
    Take a trip to the dock lands, around the Beckett bridge area.
    Hardly daring and modern. Don't get me wrong, I like the docklands... it's just half-assed at best.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    corktina wrote: »
    I'd rather see this somewhere like Tallaght. Tallaght is very handy for the Motorway system and thats more relvant to most people travelling with a sick child than trains or buses.

    If you are at the J9 M50 (Red Cow) it's 13min driving to to Tallaght Hospital and 18 min to the Mater.

    Hardly a huge advantage.

    What us disconcerting is the kind of crap debate that is going on - people talking about opening up old warehouses, NAMA buildings, greenfields sites yada yada and more nonsense.

    The reality is that the sites are pretty much equal when it comes to access. Some have or will have better access to public transport. Parking will be a key one but so will access to other services that a city environment can provide.

    Th really key issue is the medical facility itself and the Mater does offer advantages over all other sites irrespective of the personal opinions of some overpaid consultants.

    ABP have made a bad decision on this that is not in the public interest and based on a thinking that belongs in the dark ages. I think it's safe to say that there'll be no National Childrens Hospital for at least a decade.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    MYOB wrote: »
    What new empty hospital?

    The Private moved in to their new building in October 2010 and while the former Private is empty, its ancient and is intended to be renovated for extra space for SVUH.

    There may be something I'm missing here, though.

    You have missed the new hospital on the Elm park site. Built by McNamara and never opened. It is the building visible from the Merrion Road. There is at least one other vacant building on the site. It is controlled by NAMA. Could be got going and linked into Vincents very quickly.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You have missed the new hospital on the Elm park site. Built by McNamara and never opened. It is the building visible from the Merrion Road. There is at least one other vacant building on the site. It is controlled by NAMA. Could be got going and linked into Vincents very quickly.

    Wasn't aware of that.

    Is it fitted out or just floor plates? I'd imagine its not big enough for what's needed here, though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    Ah, come on... it's not "city centre" but it's literally across the road from city centre. That's a slightly ridiculous statement - it's Dublin, not Tokyo. The Mater is city centre whether it's Dublin 7 or not; can you walk there from OCS in 10 minutes? :pac: It's city enough bloody centre.

    Might be close to OCS but it's residential. Check St. Josepth St. to North East of site.

    St.Joseph.St.png

    If I lived on this street I'd definitely want it thought of as residential by planners. The view by ABP would seem to support view that it is residential.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    MYOB wrote: »
    Wasn't aware of that.

    Is it fitted out or just floor plates? I'd imagine its not big enough for what's needed here, though.

    The front building has 22,000 sq metres of floor space. I would think it was not fitted out because there was an application for a change of use to offices which was refused. There may be other buildings available. There would also be potential to extend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    BrianD wrote: »
    If you are at the J9 M50 (Red Cow) it's 13min driving to to Tallaght Hospital and 18 min to the Mater.


    13min Red Cow to Tallaght - credible - it's motorway most of the way - could take longer if there are traffic delays - but unlikely to be more than double that at worst

    18min Red Cow to Mater - completely not credible. 50km/h limits (except for a short 60km/h stretch) and lots and lots of traffic lights. That's not even taking traffic congestion into account. Under adverse circumstances this journey could easily take over an hour.

    Simply not credible at all. More lies, spin and bull***t which has surrounded the choice of the Mater site from the start. This whole project is yet another Bertie Ahern con job which serves neither the taxpayer nor our children well.


    NB I'm not accusing you of lying Brian, I'm assuming you provided that figure in good faith, you got that figure from somewhere - but I don't think whoever made that 18min claim in the first place was acting in good faith.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    ninja900 wrote: »

    18min Red Cow to Mater - completely not credible. 50km/h limits (except for a short 60km/h stretch) and lots and lots of traffic lights. That's not even taking traffic congestion into account. Under adverse circumstances this journey could easily take over an hour.

    The correct route from the Red Cow to the Mater involves the M50 (100km/h) and the N4 (80km/h for much of its length), NOT the long since downgraded N7 through the south city.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    MYOB wrote: »
    The correct route from the Red Cow to the Mater involves the M50 (100km/h) and the N4 (80km/h for much of its length), NOT the long since downgraded N7 through the south city.

    Take the M50 to Lucan from the Red Cow and travel along the N4 to the Mater?
    Easily an hour during the day. There are numerous traffic lights. 80kmh is only going to be achieved on the more remote outer sections. Near the City, St Johns Road and the quays are often very slow. Coming off the quays and up North King street is also a slow route. Alternatively Conyngham Road and Infirmary Road brings you through Phibsboro. I wouldn't like to do it with a hospital patient in need of urgent attention in the car.


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